Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service

[zzptichka]

$1.6M. Will be funny when they announce a plan to go back to 5-minute service in a couple of years, that would cost the city "only" $21.6M extra per year and a one-time cost of $100M with a lengthy track upgrade shutdown.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

We need cuts and 10 or 15 minute bus timings aren't going to make much difference in ridership numbers. Those people mostly have no choice. But taking the train from 5 to 10 is huge. I think there is a lot of just jump on the train attitude with the casual transit user. Once it's at 10 minutes it's waiting and you might as well just take an Uber. Bet they don't save the amount they think from this.

We "need" cuts only because ridership has decreased due to previous cuts. I don't understand how people who think like this (and decision-makers who put this thinking into effect) are too short sighted to realize this phenomenon exists.

Cuts to bus service undoubtedly affects O-Train ridership and now further cuts to Line 1 frequency will further exacerbate the issue. And it'll come just in time for Sept when students are back in class and more public servants are set to return to the office.

We are digging ourselves into a deeper hole that will be harder and harder to get out of. And people will still have the audacity to ask why there's stop and go traffic on the 417 outside of rush hour.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

We "need" cuts only because ridership has decreased due to previous cuts. I don't understand how people who think like this (and decision-makers who put this thinking into effect) are too short sighted to realize this phenomenon exists.

Cuts to bus service undoubtedly affects O-Train ridership and now further cuts to Line 1 frequency will further exacerbate the issue. And it'll come just in time for Sept when students are back in class and more public servants are set to return to the office.

We are digging ourselves into a deeper hole that will be harder and harder to get out of. And people will still have the audacity to ask why there's stop and go traffic on the 417 outside of rush hour.

Nobody is sitting around asking why there's traffic. Nobody is that stupid.

Instead, we're pointing the blame at supposed incompetence when the problem is so obviously an unwillingness to invest more in transit. The more the "incompetence" narrative sucks the air out of the conversation, the less likely it is that we'll just spend the money to avoid these cuts instead. Right?

$1.6M isn't a lot, but OC Transpo's revenue deficit is substantially more than that. So this isn't even the worse to come, and acting like this is just some problem of understanding at the top level isn't going to help plug that hole in the budget. That requires public support, which is lacking, and you're part of the problem.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Nobody is sitting around asking why there's traffic. Nobody is that stupid.

Instead, we're pointing the blame at supposed incompetence when the problem is so obviously an unwillingness to invest more in transit. The more the "incompetence" narrative sucks the air out of the conversation, the less likely it is that we'll just spend the money to avoid these cuts instead. Right?

$1.6M isn't a lot, but OC Transpo's revenue deficit is substantially more than that. So this isn't even the worse to come, and acting like this is just some problem of understanding at the top level isn't going to help plug that hole in the budget. That requires public support, which is lacking, and you're part of the problem.

Try reading my post again.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Nobody is sitting around asking why there's traffic. Nobody is that stupid.

Instead, we're pointing the blame at supposed incompetence when the problem is so obviously an unwillingness to invest more in transit. The more the "incompetence" narrative sucks the air out of the conversation, the less likely it is that we'll just spend the money to avoid these cuts instead. Right?

$1.6M isn't a lot, but OC Transpo's revenue deficit is substantially more than that. So this isn't even the worse to come, and acting like this is just some problem of understanding at the top level isn't going to help plug that hole in the budget. That requires public support, which is lacking, and you're part of the problem.

OCTranspo has a $700M budget. Saving 0.1% of OCTranspo’s budget to reduce service on OCTranspo’s most high-profile service is either incompetent or an attempt to blackmail council.

[vtecyo]

Originally Posted by acottawa

OCTranspo has a $700M budget. Saving 0.1% of OCTranspo’s budget to reduce service on OCTranspo’s most high-profile service is either incompetent or an attempt to blackmail council.

Actually - $1.6M is only ~0.002% of $767.8M, so yeah - probably blackmail.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by acottawa

OCTranspo has a $700M budget. Saving 0.1% of OCTranspo’s budget to reduce service on OCTranspo’s most high-profile service is either incompetent or an attempt to blackmail council.

Again, $1.6M is more like 2.5% of the projected deficit. Not all of the deficit will be covered by cuts, but they're certainly going to use them to make a dent in it.
If ridership on the LRT is not utilizing the full capacity of the LRT during mid-day, and OC Transpo has no choice but to start making cuts to cover the deficit, then I don't think it's fair to call this "incompetence". It's making a cut that will have arguably the least effect on the network to start rounding that deficit down.

Even if it is "blackmailing" council... like, yeah, and? That would require council to care, which they historically haven't.

I've seen more than a handful of people question OC Transpo's alleged "bloat" because they saw them replace a handful of signage one too many times for their liking, so $1.6M is still a lot for the "fiscally minded" (not that I agree with it at all).

Originally Posted by vtecyo

Actually - $1.6M is only ~0.002% of $767.8M, so yeah - probably blackmail.

It's 0.2%.

[vtecyo]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Again, $1.6M is more like 2.5% of the projected deficit. Not all of the deficit will be covered by cuts, but they're certainly going to use them to make a dent in it.
If ridership on the LRT is not utilizing the full capacity of the LRT during mid-day, and OC Transpo has no choice but to start making cuts to cover the deficit, then I don't think it's fair to call this "incompetence". It's making a cut that will have arguably the least effect on the network to start rounding that deficit down.

Even if it is "blackmailing" council... like, yeah, and? That would require council to care, which they historically haven't.

I've seen more than a handful of people question OC Transpo's alleged "bloat" because they saw them replace a handful of signage one too many times for their liking, so $1.6M is still a lot for the "fiscally minded" (not that I agree with it at all).



It's 0.2%.

Ugh, math... I guess I didn't read my calculator correctly.

[Lakeofthewood]

Shocked at the continued incompetence of OC Transpo. What was the point of building the LRT if this is what we're doing?

[lrt's friend]

How do we stop the downward spiral? Each service cut leads to more people abandoning transit. I guarantee ridership loss in my neighbourhood with the upcoming bus changes. In fact, the delays in bus cuts has required Line 1 cuts to achieve some of the expected savings in 2024. Expect further cuts in 2025. It is inevitable. Line 1 can run every 15 minutes after 7 pm and on weekends. Line 2 can run every 15 minutes in all hours and meet demand.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

How do we stop the downward spiral? Each service cut leads to more people abandoning transit. I guarantee ridership loss in my neighbourhood with the upcoming bus changes. In fact, the delays in bus cuts has required Line 1 cuts to achieve some of the expected savings in 2024. Expect further cuts in 2025. It is inevitable. Line 1 can run every 15 minutes after 7 pm and on weekends. Line 2 can run every 15 minutes in all hours and meet demand.

I hope that question is rhetorical.

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

How do we stop the downward spiral? Each service cut leads to more people abandoning transit. I guarantee ridership loss in my neighbourhood with the upcoming bus changes. In fact, the delays in bus cuts has required Line 1 cuts to achieve some of the expected savings in 2024. Expect further cuts in 2025. It is inevitable. Line 1 can run every 15 minutes after 7 pm and on weekends. Line 2 can run every 15 minutes in all hours and meet demand.

Many bus routes would have enough capacity in them if they ran only once a day. No one would want to use it. Imagine the cost savings potential

Capacity planning, which more than a decade ago started the death spiral, strikes again.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

Shocked at the continued incompetence of OC Transpo. What was the point of building the LRT if this is what we're doing?

Incompetence indeed. It boils down to money but you don't hear OC Transpo management coming out and talking about investment being needed to attract ridership and reverse the current trend. Seems OCT execs are happy to sit back and collect their paycheques while playing along with council to decimate our transit system.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Again, $1.6M is more like 2.5% of the projected deficit. Not all of the deficit will be covered by cuts, but they're certainly going to use them to make a dent in it.
If ridership on the LRT is not utilizing the full capacity of the LRT during mid-day, and OC Transpo has no choice but to start making cuts to cover the deficit, then I don't think it's fair to call this "incompetence". It's making a cut that will have arguably the least effect on the network to start rounding that deficit down.

Even if it is "blackmailing" council... like, yeah, and? That would require council to care, which they historically haven't.

Deciding where to cut from the 700M+ budget is on the OCTranspo management. Targeting the most high profile service that the most riders are likely to use on a regular basis to save a miniscule amount of money makes no sense, particularly since it will further encourage riders to do stupid things like block doors, which will create more shutdowns, delays and costs.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Incompetence indeed. It boils down to money but you don't hear OC Transpo management coming out and talking about investment being needed to attract ridership and reverse the current trend. Seems OCT execs are happy to sit back and collect their paycheques while playing along with council to decimate our transit system.

I am not sure there is anything OCTranspo can do to reverse the ridership decline. When the city's major employer only requires limited in person work there is just going to be less demand for transit.

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

Incompetence indeed. It boils down to money but you don't hear OC Transpo management coming out and talking about investment being needed to attract ridership and reverse the current trend. Seems OCT execs are happy to sit back and collect their paycheques while playing along with council to decimate our transit system.

This is my thing. You never see anyone OC out in the media clamoring to stop the budget cuts or to get more funding. It's like they're perfectly fine with what is happening to their own system.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I am not sure there is anything OCTranspo can do to reverse the ridership decline. When the city's major employer only requires limited in person work there is just going to be less demand for transit.

I'd settle for them not doing the one thing that we know for sure will cause a decline - cutting the frequency of their trunk service in half.

The timing of this is mind-boggling. Yes, the city's major employer only requires limited in-person work, but that requirement is increasing literally the week after these service cuts take effect. Add to that the fact the universities and colleges are returning and you have a recipe for a very unpleasant month of September. Maybe they are playing the long game - either fund us properly or live with the traffic consequences.

[lrt's friend]

They can't implement the bus service cuts so Line 1 cuts are the only choice. Eventually, we will get both and the spiral continues

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

They can't implement the bus service cuts so Line 1 cuts are the only choice. Eventually, we will get both and the spiral continues

Why can’t they implement bus service cuts?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Why can’t they implement bus service cuts?

Because every ward has some old ladies taking the bus once a week at 2pm (probably on Wednesday for free) who will call and complain should service be cut.