The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

I had the unique pleasure of coming across these buses this past weekend during a visit to Sandon, BC.

Yes, it's quite neat to see them again. We were in the area a decade or so ago and popped into Sandon to check it out. It was a pleasant surprise to see the "20 Granville" on the Brills that were a daily part of getting to school in the 80s.

[p_xavier]

I thought the BC electric buses were much more recent. I'll look more into it. Thanks for the pics.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by p_xavier

I thought the BC electric buses were much more recent. I'll look more into it. Thanks for the pics.

If you're referring to the battery-powered buses, those are quite recent. The trolley bus fleet was launched back in the late 1940s.

Trolley buses in Vancouver

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

If you're referring to the battery-powered buses, those are quite recent. The trolley bus fleet was launched back in the late 1940s.

Trolley buses in Vancouver

No was the trolley buses I was referring to. I was aware of them when Edmonton closed it's trolley bus system more than a decade ago. Good for Vancouver to see in continuous use. Are the battery vehicles trolley compatible for on demand charging?

[madog222]

Originally Posted by p_xavier

Are the battery vehicles trolley compatible for on demand charging?

No they aren't, they're standard battery buses with a J3105-1 enroute charging connection. There are very few non-trolley routes that spend any significant time on streets with trolley wires anyway.

[ssiguy]

Trolley buses have served Vancouver well and it was a good decision to keep them as opposed to switching over to diesel like nearly all systems were post-war.

There are environmentally friendly but back in the 50s & 60s that was not an issue. They were kept because Vancouver has several steep inclines especially in the West End and going up Little Mountain. All Little Mountain routes run North/South which is why nearly all N/S routes use trolleys while E/W use diesel.

I do, however, think their days are numbered. Right now battery buses still have their issues. They cannot go as far and maintain full operating capacity, due to the batteries weigh infinitely more so have to be made with much stronger steel which adds to their costs, and can be problematic in extreme heat or cold.

That said, as battery technology increases at an exponential rate, these will not become issues. Battery buses are smother {due to not have the jerking at stops and corners}, more flexible, can turn corners much faster, and don't require the expensive upkeep of trolley wires. Added to this and the increase of battery and hydrogen buses, the number of suppliers is declining. They will not get rid of them all at once as there is no reason for doing so but gradually as major works on trolley lines need to be done and/or the trolleys have to be replaced, the city will probably not reinvest in them and go battery for that particular line and eventually the entire system will be phased out. For longer distance/commuter buses, I think the city, like many others, will go with hydrogen.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Trolley buses have served Vancouver well and it was a good decision to keep them as opposed to switching over to diesel like nearly all systems were post-war.

There are environmentally friendly but back in the 50s & 60s that was not an issue. They were kept because Vancouver has several steep inclines especially in the West End and going up Little Mountain. All Little Mountain routes run North/South which is why nearly all N/S routes use trolleys while E/W use diesel.

I do, however, think their days are numbered. Right now battery buses still have their issues. They cannot go as far and maintain full operating capacity, due to the batteries weigh infinitely more so have to be made with much stronger steel which adds to their costs, and can be problematic in extreme heat or cold.

That said, as battery technology increases at an exponential rate, these will not become issues. Battery buses are smother {due to not have the jerking at stops and corners}, more flexible, can turn corners much faster, and don't require the expensive upkeep of trolley wires. Added to this and the increase of battery and hydrogen buses, the number of suppliers is declining. They will not get rid of them all at once as there is no reason for doing so but gradually as major works on trolley lines need to be done and/or the trolleys have to be replaced, the city will probably not reinvest in them and go battery for that particular line and eventually the entire system will be phased out. For longer distance/commuter buses, I think the city, like many others, will go with hydrogen.

TransLink have already announced the replacement of the entire trolley fleet. The first 188 buses are due to be ordered soon for delivery starting around 2027. In the summer they're going to test the likely replacement model, which has a larger battery pack and on-site charging capability so that buses will potentially be able to operate up to 20 km off wire. With automatic pole connection, which is also part of the design, it should make trolley operations more flexible where a breakdown, detour or construction currently affects operations.

They're also adding to the fleet of Battery Electric buses, to replace the diesel fleet. Work has already started on construction of the new depot in Marpole for 300 battery electric buses.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Changing City

TransLink have already announced the replacement of the entire trolley fleet. The first 188 buses are due to be ordered soon for delivery starting around 2027. In the summer they're going to test the likely replacement model, which has a larger battery pack and on-site charging capability so that buses will potentially be able to operate up to 20 km off wire. With automatic pole connection, which is also part of the design, it should make trolley operations more flexible where a breakdown, detour or construction currently affects operations.

They're also adding to the fleet of Battery Electric buses, to replace the diesel fleet. Work has already started on construction of the new depot in Marpole for 300 battery electric buses.

I'm not surprised they reordered the trolley fleet because, as I said earlier, electric buses still have some significant drawbacks and until these issues are resolved, there is no reason why they should be replaced right now.

That said, the trolleys are going to be phased out. I could see this as being their last major order as this will basically bring Translink to a trolley fleet until 2040. By that time batteries will last exponentially longer, be lighter, go much further, have to recharge far less often, and will not need any battery replacements for the lifetime of the bus which is usually around 12 to 15 years for a trolley.

In 20 years, trolleys will become to expensive to justify and as other trolley cities also realize this, the number of manufacturers offering them will greatly reduce to essentially none. This will force Vancouver to get rid of them whether they like or not. Same thing will happen will diesel buses.........you can't buy them if no one is selling them. In fact, streetcars using catenary will go the same way.

[Martin Mtl]

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

When you add the LRT systems in NA, even the Canadian systems fair much better than most USA systems. The reality is, in Canada, if you build it, they will come. Not so much in USA.

[Nite]

• Video Link

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Disappointed Ottawa's not on there just because of the rolling stock.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Disappointed Ottawa's not on there just because of the rolling stock.

Here ya go.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Here ya go.

I take it back. That's embarrassing.

Did you make both of these? I thought it was from somewhere else.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I take it back. That's embarrassing.

Did you make both of these? I thought it was from somewhere else.

I made this one.

[Innsertnamehere]

Ottawa's delayed return to the office owing to it's government employment rate means it's transit ridership recovery has lagged a lot more than other cities.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Ottawa's delayed return to the office owing to it's government employment rate means it's transit ridership recovery has lagged a lot more than other cities.

Bus ridership has returned to about 70% or so while the O-Train is just at around 40%. That's because the O-Train serves commuters mostly (and uOttawa students) while the bus system serves the denser urban areas where people actually depend on transit. Hope this pushes the City to rethink its future transit plans in order to bring more BRT and actual rail rapid transit to the urban areas.

For now, Doug Ford has rescinded his support for Stage 3 (even though no actual funding was ever promised) until the current O-Train no longer has issues and Stage 2 opens, which pushes Stage 3 (further extensions into commuter suburbs, converting mostly functional bus routes) back to a 2030 start at the earliest.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

I made this one.

I presume that these numbers include metro and tram systems?

Could you do one that show different colors in each column for metros and trams (or better yet, one wirh commuter rails too)?

Anyways, thanks for the graph.

[J.OT13]

• Video Link

[SFUVancouver]

REM is a remarkable accomplishment. I hope it has a smooth inauguration and begins making a material improvement to the lives of people in Montreal.