The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[someone123]

Some renderings for the planned ferries and terminal that will connect Mill Cove in Bedford to Halifax.

There is also a plan to expand the downtown ferry terminal and add ferry terminals in Shannon Park and the Larry Uteck Blvd area. There's a terminal in downtown Dartmouth and one in Woodside.

Originally Posted by q12

Coming 2027









https://haligonia.ca/bedford-terminal-fo...-include-library-community-space-292957/

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by someone123

Some renderings for the planned ferries and terminal that will connect Mill Cove in Bedford to Halifax.

There is also a plan to expand the downtown ferry terminal and add ferry terminals in Shannon Park and the Larry Uteck Blvd area. There's a terminal in downtown Dartmouth and one in Woodside.

20 minute service sounds pretty reasonable. so 30 minute frequency each way to start I'd guess?

"The design calls for electric catamaran-style ferries that carry 150 passengers and make the run in 20 minutes"
https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/ferry-servic...e-horizon-city-councillor-says-1.6456550

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

20 minute service sounds pretty reasonable. so 30 minute frequency each way to start I'd guess?

The reports from 2022 say 15 minute peak or possibly 12 to start with multiple ferries (charging time is needed as well).

I think this will be a hub-and-spoke style connection, not just a ferry for the local area. The local area is pretty underwhelming although there could be transit-oriented development. The paths in along the west side of the harbour are congested and there are many busy bus routes already taking people along trips that would be faster on the ferry.

I wonder if in the long run the faster electric ferries could also be used on existing routes. The terminals would all need to be upgraded, and the city recently bought a few of the traditional variety. It looks like there are 5 ferries in service currently.

[cranes]

Last week I posted a twitter thread regarding ION's anniversary. Here's another twitter thread with a couple interesting stats and comments.

https://twitter.com/RegionWaterloo/status/1672316798585151491

Region of Waterloo @RegionWaterloo Jun 23, 2023

As we celebrate @GRT_ROW ION’s fourth birthday this week, we’re looking back at its success story for today’s #ROW50th. These electric trains have been reshaping our urban landscape, even before they began carrying passengers in 2019. 1/8

2/ ION was an ambitious project to direct growth in the urban centres of #WatReg, reduce urban sprawl, protect our countryside & give people more ways to get around. The investment in our community has paid off – development & vibrancy continue to boom around the LRT tracks.

3/ Building the new tracks wasn’t a new concept - Regional Council floated the idea for a central transit corridor as far back as '76. After securing funding and choosing optimal routes and technology, Council approved the LRT plan in 2011.

4/ Construction crews began reshaping our community's busiest streets in 2015, building new tracks & stations, and providing new underground infrastructure to help facilitate a growing #WatReg. The much-anticipated ION trains took their first official journey on June 21, 2019.

5/ Our LRT system has 19 stops across a 19-km route. We’ve now passed 13 million total rides on ION! Daily ridership is over 20,000 people and growing – by the end of 2023 we’re expecting to see our highest ridership yet!

6/ And the ION story isn’t done yet. The planned Stage 2 will extend the LRT system an additional 18 km from Fairway station in #DTKitchener to #DTCambridge with eight new stations, creating a continuous LRT service across the urban centres.

7/ Our community will grow to nearly 1 million people in less than 20 years. Light rail is a long-term investment that helps us add homes and jobs to our urban centres. It also provides people with a sustainable and accessible way to get where they need to go.

8/ Want to see more?
⌛️Check out this timeline of the project: http://bit.ly/42T1AXV
������Grab some������& watch the full ION documentary: http://bit.ly/440zD1W
������Just want a ride? Get the ION route map and schedule: http://bit.ly/44iECL3

https://twitter.com/VanishingUnder/status/1672318487514021888

Zach ������������ @VanishingUnder

Only 4 years after opening, Waterloo’s ION light rail system is moving more people per day than:
- Baltimore Metro SubwayLink
- Cleveland Red Line
- Staten Island Railway
- PATCO Speedline

The system has been transformative for mobility in Waterloo, shaping it as one of the most unique small cities in all of North America...

https://twitter.com/flushed_emojii/status/1672341520626900992

john! @flushed_emojii

love to see Canadian transit winning ������ can't wait to ride ION one day

https://twitter.com/KokodayoCN/status/1672391814299394049

������������Smith Zhou������������ @KokodayoCN

The ION LRT is pretty successful with adequate frequency and great connection with other local or intercity transit services, and connects important neighborhoods across the region. Love to see a Canadian transit system that is so successful and useful to residents.

[someone123]

It would be interesting to compare the ridership projections from ION circa 2011 with what ended up happening. I suspect Canadian cities systematically underestimate demand and under build while overvaluing financial risk and undervaluing the cost of inadequate infrastructure.

A lot of Canadian cities have well-used bus systems that in many cases have higher ridership than American tram or metro lines. If you take one of those good bus systems and integrate it with an LRT or tram route on a key corridor then ridership is going to be solid.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by someone123

It would be interesting to compare the ridership projections from ION circa 2011 with what ended up happening. I suspect Canadian cities systematically underestimate demand and under build while overvaluing financial risk and undervaluing the cost of inadequate infrastructure.

A lot of Canadian cities have well-used bus systems that in many cases have higher ridership than American tram or metro lines. If you take one of those good bus systems and integrate it with an LRT or tram route on a key corridor then ridership is going to be solid.

It was released in the last couple of days, that Ottawa's Confed Line is operating at 43% of pre-Covid ridership. For most Canadian cities, rail ridership has not recovered to pre-Covid numbers. Generally, buses have achieved much better ridership recovery, telling us that short-distance riders have returned to transit while commuters have not. The sad thing is that it is buses that are being cut first.

[Doady]

In the US they see rail as a solution to low ridership, while here in Canada we build rail as a response to high ridership.

Kitchener-Waterloo is much smaller than US systems that have modern LRT. I'm not sure how that is an example of Canada systematically underestimating demand and under building.

Satisfying demand and building includes buses as well. If anything, it is the US that's that systematically underestimating demand and underbuilding. Dallas bus ridership increased by 30% in 2019 after a major increase in bus service. 30% increase in one year. That would never happen in Canada because the demand here is already being satisfied.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by cranes

Last week I posted a twitter thread regarding ION's anniversary. Here's another twitter thread with a couple interesting stats and comments.

https://twitter.com/RegionWaterloo/status/1672316798585151491

Region of Waterloo @RegionWaterloo Jun 23, 2023



https://twitter.com/VanishingUnder/status/1672318487514021888

Zach ������������ @VanishingUnder


https://twitter.com/flushed_emojii/status/1672341520626900992

john! @flushed_emojii


https://twitter.com/KokodayoCN/status/1672391814299394049

������������Smith Zhou������������ @KokodayoCN

4 years of relatively no issues. Or at least none that are newsworthy.

Originally Posted by someone123

It would be interesting to compare the ridership projections from ION circa 2011 with what ended up happening. I suspect Canadian cities systematically underestimate demand and under build while overvaluing financial risk and undervaluing the cost of inadequate infrastructure.

A lot of Canadian cities have well-used bus systems that in many cases have higher ridership than American tram or metro lines. If you take one of those good bus systems and integrate it with an LRT or tram route on a key corridor then ridership is going to be solid.

I visited Jacksonville Fl and each bus was a fare, no transfers. It is pour planning like that that is one of the many causes for what you see. Another one is that many transit systems are used primarily by the poor, so the regular people are afraid of it.

[swimmer_spe]

I was thinking about commuter rail. Are there other cities besides the 3 that would actually be better served by a system?

[J.OT13]

Canada Day this year (and last year) was held on LeBreton Flats because Parliament Hill is a huge gaping hole. Canadian Heritage and the Ottawa Police decided to close the closest station, Pimisi, because of safety concerns. The OPS is peddling lies about the station being underbuilt to handle large crowds, while at the same time really only pointing to limitations with the road overpass the station sits under.

The local media has been running wild with this for days. Can LeBreton handle an arena!?

Fact of the matter is, Canada Day sees 30k,40k,50k while an arena would only be 17k. Where the Canada Day site sites, it's only really accessible to Pimisi, not Bayview (one key pathway to Bayview was closed). The arena will sit in between. Even then, it's really just a case of bad planning and the Police not wanting to do crowd control, like what's done in Montreal for the F1. It would be even easier at Pimisi since we can see the platform from the bridge and there are multiple entrances.

Even with all of this, Pimisi handled Bluesfest fine last year. More predictable than Canada Day (as it's a ticketed event) but larger crowds than NHL hockey.

Here's Pimisi:




https://www.railfans.ca/otrain/station/pimisi

How do other cities handle large crowds? Either hockey or larger events?

[nname]

Vancouver SkyTrain handles the Celebration of Light event with no issue. There may be some station entry/exit restrictions due to the crowd, and long lineup outside of the stations that may take way past midnight for the crowed to disperse even with train every 1-2 minutes. From my memory, it's encouraged to purchase return ticket in advance when you arrive before the event so prevent lineup at the ticket machine. Not sure if they left the faregates open to speed up entry though.

The estimated crowd for the event may be as much as 500k on the final day.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by nname

Vancouver SkyTrain handles the Celebration of Light event with no issue. There may be some station entry/exit restrictions due to the crowd, and long lineup outside of the stations that may take way past midnight for the crowed to disperse even with train every 1-2 minutes. From my memory, it's encouraged to purchase return ticket in advance when you arrive before the event so prevent lineup at the ticket machine. Not sure if they left the faregates open to speed up entry though.

The estimated crowd for the event may be as much as 500k on the final day.

Half a million!? Wow!!

Where in Vancouver does it take place?

Shania Twain Concert yesterday at Bluesfest at LeBreton. About 30k. Pimisi and O-Train had no issues handling the crowds. Doubt the media will spend 5 days covering that, or even mention it beyond a foot note.

[nname]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Half a million!? Wow!!

Where in Vancouver does it take place?

Shania Twain Concert yesterday at Bluesfest at LeBreton. About 30k. Pimisi and O-Train had no issues handling the crowds. Doubt the media will spend 5 days covering that, or even mention it beyond a foot note.

It happens around English Bay, so not just a single location. But still, whoever take transit will converge to the downtown stations for SkyTrain, SeaBus, and West Coast Express.

This year the event will take place on July 22, 26, and 29, with the last day projected to have the biggest crowd of 500k, and 3 days total of 1.4 million. This was before COVID though, so not sure if there's more or less people now...

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Half a million!? Wow!!

Where in Vancouver does it take place?

Shania Twain Concert yesterday at Bluesfest at LeBreton. About 30k. Pimisi and O-Train had no issues handling the crowds. Doubt the media will spend 5 days covering that, or even mention it beyond a foot note.

To be fair, it was mentioned on the radio this morning that the Confed Line worked well after the concert.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

To be fair, it was mentioned on the radio this morning that the Confed Line worked well after the concert.

On the news too, as a foot note. Five minutes about Shania Twain, and oh, btw, no issues with Pimisi. We won't get 3 or 4 straight days of 5 minute segments on how well the train and Pimisi handled the crowd. Probably won't hear about it at all unless there's a incident (even as monitor as an unrelated health issue (plausible scenario: "guy had a heat stroke. Must have been the crowds at Pimisi")).

[rousseau]

Lamenting a noisy streetcar turn getting bad over two months. It sounded like this:

https://twitter.com/SabrinaMaddeaux/status/1678413145881161728?s=20

But after complaining on Twitter someone from the TTC put some lubrication on the tracks, so it's now silent, like this:

https://twitter.com/SabrinaMaddeaux/status/1678571238531186688?s=20

An issue of quality of life in the city, this is. The question remains, though, why did they do nothing for months in spite of the complaints she sent to them? There is no way any reasonable person should be expected to be subjected to the unbelievably irritating noise in the first video, regardless of what city you're living in.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Lamenting a noisy streetcar turn getting bad over two months. It sounded like this:

https://twitter.com/SabrinaMaddeaux/status/1678413145881161728?s=20

But after complaining on Twitter someone from the TTC put some lubrication on the tracks, so it's now silent, like this:

https://twitter.com/SabrinaMaddeaux/status/1678571238531186688?s=20

An issue of quality of life in the city, this is. The question remains, though, why did they do nothing for months in spite of the complaints she sent to them? There is no way any reasonable person should be expected to be subjected to the unbelievably irritating noise in the first video, regardless of what city you're living in.

That would be excruciating to live with. I did notice the quiet video was on the other track though, hopefully she didn't get a shock when the train on the noisy track made the turn.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

That would be excruciating to live with. I did notice the quiet video was on the other track though, hopefully she didn't get a shock when the train on the noisy track made the turn.

Your right! I never noticed that. Both tracks converge on the same track on the main street though, so hopefully this is a feasible alternative. The presence of the TTC worker in the quiet video suggests that they were addressing the issue.

[p_xavier]

For those who could be lucky, there is a contest to be among the first official riders of the REM.

https://rem.info/en/news/rem-inauguration-contest-be-among-first-passengers-board

[Coldrsx]

I had the unique pleasure of coming across these buses this past weekend during a visit to Sandon, BC.


---
CANADIAN BRILL TROLLEY NATIONAL COLLECTION

You will find history everywhere you turn when touring around Sandon. Take the time to wonder the trails and stop in at some of our main town site attractions.

​Originally intended as only temporary storage, the Sandon Brill trolleys where an unexpected hit with visitors.

Our collection includes Brill buses of various models from Vancouver, Calgary, Saskatoon, Winnipeg and Regina.

https://www.sandoninthekootenays.ca/canadian-brill-trolley-national-collection.html#/