Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion II

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

... but now that I have written all this it seems we won't have enough trains to offer 3 minute service Water-front to Langley and 90 second service waterfront to Arbutus.

Why do you even have that expectation?
Trains will be short-turned to serve the busiest sections of the lines.

See projected service levels after SLS comes on line in this document:

https://surreylangleyskytrain.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/938/2023/11/appendix_d_ridership_memo.pdf


https://surreylangleyskytrain.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/938/2023/11/appendix_d_ridership_memo.pdf


https://surreylangleyskytrain.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/938/2023/11/appendix_d_ridership_memo.pdf


https://surreylangleyskytrain.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/938/2023/11/appendix_d_ridership_memo.pdf

[dpogue]

We're getting 47 5-car Mark V trains in total, which is 235 vehicles. That will more than replace the existing Mark I fleet, and still add significant extra capacity.

TransLink also has options to buy additional Mark V trains as they get closer to looking at Mark II retirement.

[idunno]

Off-peak frequencies of 10 minutes even in 2050 for SLS - brutal!

Hopefully ridership improves through the years to demand better frequencies.

[Mac Write]

Originally Posted by idunno

Off-peak frequencies of 10 minutes even in 2050 for SLS - brutal!
.

10 minute frequency for a fully automated trans system is a joke. same with 5 minutes for the millennium line. they need to do more integrations and get people out of cars and onto Transit. a massive park and ride improvement to allow for one seat rides would increase RPH. Like I have said years ago put up a big park and ride at Braid Station. then people take the highway to braid and take the train downtown. we need to do everything possible to fill those trains to max capacity (well not max capacity but standing room only would be a start).

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

10 minute frequency for a fully automated trans system is a joke.

I guess when the line opens we'll see what the demand is. One of the problems with the Langley extension is that it may be impractical to increase frequencies beyond King George by running shorter trains because those short trains would then continue on to downtown and create capacity issues on the more heavily traveled portion of the line.

One wonders if they should upgrade the single-direction crossover on the outbound side of King George to a full "X" dual-direction crossover. That would allow them to effectively split the line in two and have the inbound and outbound sides running independently using opposite sides of the platform. Then they could run more frequent, shorter trains on the outbound side. The downside of that is that people traveling between Langley and downtown would have to switch trains at King George. Perhaps a small price to pay for the increased frequency?

[nname]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

10 minute frequency for a fully automated trans system is a joke. same with 5 minutes for the millennium line. they need to do more integrations and get people out of cars and onto Transit. a massive park and ride improvement to allow for one seat rides would increase RPH. Like I have said years ago put up a big park and ride at Braid Station. then people take the highway to braid and take the train downtown. we need to do everything possible to fill those trains to max capacity (well not max capacity but standing room only would be a start).

If you go to the Millennium Station weekday late night at the right time, you'll see 40min shows up in the next train display... and this is without any delay

Of course, the 45min late night at the Canada Line is still the worst, even after improving from 60min...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

... a massive park and ride improvement to allow for one seat rides would increase RPH. Like I have said years ago put up a big park and ride at Braid Station. then people take the highway to braid and take the train downtown.

Alternatively, make Braid a place worth driving to in the first place. Even then you're up against how A) Surrey will always take priority in train frequency, and B) it's just as easy to drive to Lougheed.

What you really want to do is go back in time and make Columbia a three-platform station.

[gaviscon]

2 years ago I read an article that they were working on reducing the noise on the Expo line... Have they started on that? Because the noise feels like it's getting worse.
Mark V isn't much of an approvement on that front either

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by gaviscon

2 years ago I read an article that they were working on reducing the noise on the Expo line... Have they started on that? Because the noise feels like it's getting worse.
Mark V isn't much of an approvement on that front either

Seems like it was just some short segments and work wouldn't complete until 2027

Quinn told reporters that rail replacement work is already underway on a stretch of the Expo Line between Commercial-Broadway and Nanaimo stations.

The new funding will cover the next three phases, on sections from Royal Oak to Edmonds station, Edmons to 22nd Street Station and Joyce-Colllingwood to Patterson stations.

The work is slated for completion by 2027.

https://globalnews.ca/news/9694808/skytrain-track-replacement-funding/

[Mac Write]

I personally on off hours wouldn't wait 10-30 minutes for train as
1: I wouldn't feel safe on the platform
2: I am used to the high frequency of the system. high frequency of 5 minutes or less will attract more people to the line.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by gaviscon

2 years ago I read an article that they were working on reducing the noise on the Expo line... Have they started on that? Because the noise feels like it's getting worse.
Mark V isn't much of an approvement on that front either

The TORFM installation on vehicles (up to Mark IIIs) was supposed to be complete this year though I believe the system needs time for the application to build up on the rails for full effectiveness. We haven't had any updates on this thought.

The new Mark V will need to wait for 2027 for installation.

[Metro-One]

One thing that could potentially help train frequency on the Expo Extension is rebuilding Columbia Station with a third rail and platform. Allowing shorter trains from Langley to terminate at Columbia and shuttle back to Langley.

Honestly, that station needs a full rebuild anyways given it’s current brutal design for passenger flow and increasing importance as a hub.

[Mac Write]

If 30 Mark V trains are to replace 25 6-car Mark I's, then how will the remaining 17 Mark V trains be distributed? Broadway Subway, Lakeforge lake, Langley Centre, King George? and how will all the Mark II's (15/12 trains) and 21 trains Mark III be used?

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

One thing that could potentially help train frequency on the Expo Extension is rebuilding Columbia Station with a third rail and platform. Allowing shorter trains from Langley to terminate at Columbia and shuttle back to Langley.

Honestly, that station needs a full rebuild anyways given it’s current brutal design for passenger flow and increasing importance as a hub.

More importantly, a third platform at Columbia should be configured to allow the M-Line to operate as a branched line with a branch terminating at Columbia, so all Expo Line trains cross to Surrey.

[nname]

Originally Posted by officedweller

More importantly, a third platform at Columbia should be configured to allow the M-Line to operate as a branched line with a branch terminating at Columbia, so all Expo Line trains cross to Surrey.

If we want both terminating M-Line trains and short Langley trains, then we need the 4th platform.

Currently platform 2 at Lougheed is quite busy with layover Expo train, as well as occasionally M-Line trains to Lafarge when platform 1 is in use. Even that, it often feels Lougheed may need another platform...

[Mac Write]

With video proof of 609-610 in revenue service and this forumsatying 601-602 is in testing, could we see 2 Mark V's enter service in October?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by nname

If we want both terminating M-Line trains and short Langley trains, then we need the 4th platform.

I think it make more sense to do the Langley short turns at King George - partly because there's pretty solid ridership from that point inbound and partly because the outbound side is under construction and that means there's an opportunity to configure the tracks to make it work.

[madog222]

I don't see any reason for running short turn trains Langley - Columbia/Whalley, if demand is already being met what's the point? It's going to cause congestion and limit frequency for the rest of the line even with a dedicated turnaround platform.

Anyways, two car trainsets will be few and far between soon after the extension opens as the Mark II fleet is retired next decade.

[Sheba]

Why do you think the trains will short turn at King George (other than it's the current terminus). I vaguely remember something about how they'll short turn somewhere in Fleetwood.

Also shouldn't this conversation be on the 'Surrey Langley Skytrain' thread?

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Why do you think the trains will short turn at King George (other than it's the current terminus). I vaguely remember something about how they'll short turn somewhere in Fleetwood.

Also shouldn't this conversation be on the 'Surrey Langley Skytrain' thread?

This started a few posts above starting with discussion on rebuilding Columbia Station to handle a reversed Millennium Line branch. Some users here have suggested to increase the frequency on the line to Langley by running trains only between Langley Surrey or Columbia on top of the regular service to/from Waterfront.

I believe the short turn station proposed in the business case is Green Timbers.