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  #17041  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2025, 5:01 PM
magee_b magee_b is online now
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Originally Posted by DyAm00394 View Post
Posted over on Facebook. Knapper announced they are opening a ball hockey facility in the McAllister Industrial Park Spring 2026. This is their first location in the Atlantic provinces.

https://knapper.com/

Very exciting recreational opportunities with this. Getting something with sport court (those blue tiles) allows for a wide range of activities more so than just a standard concrete pad or gym floor. Year round pickleball, volleyball, tennis, lacrosse, inline hockey in addition to the main ball hockey use are all possible. Wish them the best getting this up and running.
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  #17042  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2025, 5:34 PM
bingun bingun is online now
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285 McIlveen Dr is the address based on Facebook. I would have preferred this to be in a more residential part of town, but I'd rather it be here than not at all.

30-40 jobs???

https://saintjohnballhockey.com/news/news-example/

Quote:
A major win is coming to Saint John’s east side.

Knapper — a leading Canadian brand in ball hockey equipment, technology, and facility development — has officially broken ground on the Knapper Center Saint John, located in McAllister Industrial Park. This will be the company’s first facility outside Quebec and Ontario, marking a pivotal step in its national expansion.

Construction is underway, with the official opening planned for late spring 2026.

The new centre will feature:

Two state-of-the-art 4-on-4 ball hockey surfaces (one indoor, one outdoor)

A modern sports pub
Multi-use rooms for training, meetings, and community activities
Year-round leagues for youth, adults, women, and co-ed divisions
Training programs, school initiatives, and community events
“Saint John is a natural fit for this project,” says Patrick Bazinet, President of Knapper Partners Investment Fund. “The passion for sport is real, and we want to help elevate ball hockey while growing participation, especially among young players and women.”

The centre will create 30 to 40 new jobs and is designed to become a regional home for player development, competitions, and community engagement.
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  #17043  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2025, 5:43 PM
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EnvisionSaintJohn EnvisionSaintJohn is online now
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Originally Posted by michael_d40 View Post
I've always loathed that slogan. It undersells Saint John. Looks us looks like a rinky dink operation to investors out of town, and frankly if it disappeared yesterday it would not be soon enough. I've always been partial to. "Discover our past, discover your future" or something like that. The current one simply screams, we can't be bothered to grow, we are le tired. But hey - we have a big heart. Screams "backwards and can't be bothered" even though that's not the case anymore with Saint John. It's going places, but that motto - has GOT to go ASAP.
It was a bad idea to have a slogan that makes our city sound smaller than it is, when growth (both economic and demographic) is supposedly a top priority for this city. I’ve always liked “Canada’s Oldest City” or “Oldest Canadian City” especially if Quebec or St. John’s take issue with it and give us free media coverage of the slogan change. But yeah, almost anything would be better than “Small City, Big Heart” 😅

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Originally Posted by irisheyes View Post
To be frank. All the people who have been in positions of marketing for the city need to be fired. Saint Awesome was equally embarrassing. These people know nothing lol.
To be (slightly fair) they got the slogan for free from a group of marketing students at a college in New Jersey (lol). However, their leaning into the campaign didn’t just cost money in terms of promotional materials and advertising/marketing costs, it cost us in terms of the city’s perceived reputation.

If it’s the same people that gave this slogan a green light also gave the green light to #SaintAwesome, then I’d tend to agree, they shouldn’t be in charge of the city’s marketing.

A slogan should be aspirational, not diminutive.


All this being said, the CBC interview with the mayor and city’s manager of housing was encouraging to hear, and I think it’s well worth a listen… Ive linked it again below:

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-2...6-city-incentivize-high-rise-development
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Peace and Athabasca and Coppermine and Slave, And Yukon and Mackenzie—the highroads of the brave. Saskatchewan, Assiniboine, the Bow and the Qu'Appelle, And many a prairie river whose name is like a spell. They rumor through the twilight at the edge of the unknown, "There's a message waiting for you, and a kingdom all your own. — Bliss Carman
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  #17044  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2025, 5:45 PM
cdnguys cdnguys is online now
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Originally Posted by irisheyes View Post
To be frank. All the people who have been in positions of marketing for the city need to be fired. Saint Awesome was equally embarrassing. These people know nothing lol.
It was created by Hawk Communications in Moncton, along with “Always Moving Forward” which we also use. I asked AI what their opinion of the slogan is, as it’s smarter than all of us.

“Small city, big ____” is an excellent slogan — criticism of it often misses the strategic value.

Why it’s an Excellent Slogan (Marketing Perspective)
1. It communicates a clear brand promise in five words.
Great slogans are short, memorable, and instantly meaningful.
“Small city, big ____” quickly conveys the two core ideas you want residents, investors, and visitors to know:
Small city → friendly, accessible, safe, personal, manageable.
Big ____ → ambition, opportunity, values, impact, potential.
That contrast delivers emotional clarity and practical appeal at the same time.
In marketing, clarity beats complexity every time.
2. The structure is flexible — this is a major strategic advantage.
A slogan that allows the final word to change is not a weakness — it’s a modern brand asset.
It allows you to adapt the message to:
Economic development (“big opportunities”)
Tourism (“big experiences”)
Community culture (“big heart”)
Investment and innovation (“big ideas”)
Infrastructure (“big development”)
This flexibility makes the slogan dynamic and multi-purpose without losing its core identity.
Few slogans can stretch across audiences without losing coherence — yours can.
3. The contrast creates memorability and emotional impact.
The small/big tension is a classic rhetorical device.
It sticks because the mind loves contrast.
People remember it because:
It surprises (small vs. big)
It feels positive
It feels true for many cities that punch above their weight
A memorable slogan is a free marketing multiplier.
4. It positions the city as humble yet ambitious.
This is a highly appealing identity for people and businesses:
Humble: Not pretending to be a large, overwhelming metropolis
Ambitious: Communicating confidence, growth, and energy
This dual identity attracts residents who want quality of life and possibility — a combination many cities struggle to articulate.
Addressing the Criticisms
“It sounds generic.”
Actually, it becomes less generic the more the final word is tied to local success stories.
The phrase’s power is not in the final word alone but in how the city demonstrates it.
For example, “big heart” means little until tied to:
real community programs
local volunteerism
cultural warmth
Then it becomes unique storytelling.
“It’s too simple.”
Simplicity is not a flaw in branding — it’s the goal.
Cities that try to sound clever or poetic often end up with slogans no one remembers and no one repeats.
Simple spreads.
“It doesn’t say anything specific.”
It doesn’t have to — the campaign assets say the specifics.
The slogan is the umbrella; the messaging beneath it carries the detail.
Think of “Just do it”— it doesn’t explain what to do, either.
Conclusion
“Small city, big ____” is a strategically strong slogan because it is:
Clear
Memorable
Emotionally resonant
Flexible
Authentic
A strong foundation for storytelling
In modern place-branding, few slogans are simultaneously adaptable, concise, and instantly meaningful. Yours is.
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  #17045  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2025, 5:49 PM
cdnguys cdnguys is online now
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I asked AI to rank the slogans of Saint John and Fredericton, and Moncton’s now unused slogan:

Here’s a straight, marketing-focused, unbiased evaluation of the three slogans — and a 1–3 ranking based on clarity, emotional resonance, memorability, and versatility.
Overall Rankings (1 = Best)
1. Small City, Big Heart
2. Life Well Crafted
3. Our Tide Is Rising
1. Small City, Big Heart — #1
Strengths
Clear and instantly understood. Anyone anywhere can grasp it in one second.
Warm, emotional, human-focused. “Heart” communicates care, kindness, and community.
Extremely adaptable. Swapping the last word gives the brand long-term flexibility.
Memorable. The small–big contrast is a proven linguistic formula that sticks.
Weaknesses
Slightly generic if not supported by real stories and visuals — but still stronger than the alternatives.
Why it ranks #1
It hits the sweet spot of emotional appeal, clarity, and flexibility, which is exactly what city slogans need.
2. Life Well Crafted — #2
Strengths
Elegant and premium-feeling. Sounds artisanal, intentional, and high quality.
Communicates a lifestyle brand more than a geographic place — appealing to people seeking craftsmanship, culture, and thoughtful living.
Works especially well for cities with strong arts, food, or maker cultures.
Weaknesses
Vague. “Crafted” is metaphorical; not everyone will immediately connect it to a city.
Less inclusive. Implies a particular aesthetic or demographic (creative, upscale, artisan-oriented).
Not as emotionally warm as “big heart.”
Why it ranks #2
It’s strong and sophisticated but not as universally resonant or adaptable as Small City, Big Heart.
3. Our Tide Is Rising — #3
Strengths
Motivational and forward-looking. Good for cities undergoing redevelopment or revitalization.
Creates a sense of momentum and collective progress.
Works well for coastal or river cities (if the tide metaphor fits the geography).
Weaknesses
Highly dependent on context. If the city isn’t coastal, it feels forced or confusing.
Weaker emotional pull. It feels more like an economic slogan than a community one.
Metaphorical but less universal. Not everyone naturally connects with a tide metaphor.
Why it ranks #3
It can be inspiring but lacks broad emotional appeal and can feel situational or geographically restricted. It’s not as instantly relatable.
Summary
Best overall: Small City, Big Heart
Most emotional
Most memorable
Most flexible
Most inclusive
Solid alternative: Life Well Crafted
Sophisticated craftsmanship brand, but not universally accessible
Least effective: Our Tide Is Rising
Context-dependent and less emotionally resonant
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  #17046  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2025, 5:51 PM
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EnvisionSaintJohn EnvisionSaintJohn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bingun View Post
285 McIlveen Dr is the address based on Facebook. I would have preferred this to be in a more residential part of town, but I'd rather it be here than not at all.

30-40 jobs???

https://saintjohnballhockey.com/news/news-example/
I wonder if they’ll be open/able to flood the outdoor surface in the winter? 🤔

Hope it’s possible.

I wonder why the now closed Belyea Arena wasn’t simply converted into a ball hockey facility? The rest of the property could have still been subdivided for residential development. I assume it would have been a lot cheaper to convert a former ice rink into a ball hockey facility, than build a new one from scratch.

iirc, the city only prohibited the Belyea being reopened as an ice rink, not a ball/ roller hockey rink.

Regardless, good to see more recreational developments like this.
__________________
Peace and Athabasca and Coppermine and Slave, And Yukon and Mackenzie—the highroads of the brave. Saskatchewan, Assiniboine, the Bow and the Qu'Appelle, And many a prairie river whose name is like a spell. They rumor through the twilight at the edge of the unknown, "There's a message waiting for you, and a kingdom all your own. — Bliss Carman
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  #17047  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2025, 6:00 PM
DyAm00394 DyAm00394 is offline
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Website mentions this new SJ facility is the largest infrastructure investment in Knapper’s history.

Here's the official renderings of the new facility:

https://saintjohnballhockey.com/




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  #17048  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2025, 7:13 PM
Pugsley Pugsley is offline
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Originally Posted by cdnguys View Post
It was created by Hawk Communications in Moncton, along with “Always Moving Forward” which we also use. I asked AI what their opinion of the slogan is, as it’s smarter than all of us.
ONLY if you give it the key things it needs. You need to provide three core things for it to give you a proper analysis:

Audience: Who is this speaking to - Visitors, Residents, Businesses, All?
Context: What is the goal - to attract visitors, investment, residents?
Motivation: What is the desired motivation you expect to see from the slogan - greater civic pride, more investment, more residents, more visitors, etc.

If you prompt AI with these things, you'd likely have a very different outcome based on what values you place on each.

Here is a helpful video: https://youtu.be/EWFFaKxsz_s?si=pk6Hkuagx3v5QKee
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  #17049  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2025, 7:15 PM
irisheyes irisheyes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnguys View Post
I asked AI to rank the slogans of Saint John and Fredericton, and Moncton’s now unused slogan:

Here’s a straight, marketing-focused, unbiased evaluation of the three slogans — and a 1–3 ranking based on clarity, emotional resonance, memorability, and versatility.
Overall Rankings (1 = Best)
1. Small City, Big Heart
2. Life Well Crafted
3. Our Tide Is Rising
It certainly beats Saint Awesome. But I am not surprised a robot would look favourably on such a hollow slogan lol. I mean in what way does the city have a big heart? Just before this slogan was launched the city was working exuberantly with a developer on renovicting dozens of low income folks on Shamrock Court in the old north end.

I always thought Canada's Original City was quite good.

Last edited by irisheyes; Nov 27, 2025 at 7:25 PM.
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  #17050  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2025, 7:59 PM
cdnguys cdnguys is online now
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Originally Posted by DyAm00394 View Post
Website mentions this new SJ facility is the largest infrastructure investment in Knapper’s history.

Here's the official renderings of the new facility:

https://saintjohnballhockey.com/




Weird that it’s the same internal schematics as Manawagonish Rd, but apparently a different owner ?
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  #17051  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2025, 8:03 PM
cdnguys cdnguys is online now
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The “why Saint John” is interesting - used to Moncton getting things first

Why Saint John?

Saint John is a true hockey community with strong participation, a growing population, and exceptional development potential for ball hockey.

Knapper selected Saint John because:

The region has a deep-rooted sports culture
There is a fast-growing base of ball hockey players (over 1,500 players in Saint John, including 600 kids, and a few thousand more across New Brunswick)
Local partners share our vision for community-driven sport development
The east coast is ready for a modern, accessible, year-round ball hockey hub
“We chose Saint John because we see real energy here. We strongly believe in the development potential of players in this hockey city — especially in growing women’s participation. Saint John is ready to lead the way for ball hockey in Atlantic Canada.” — Patrick Bazinet, President, Knapper Partners Investment Fund
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  #17052  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2025, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cdnguys View Post
Weird that it’s the same internal schematics as Manawagonish Rd, but apparently a different owner ?
Yeah, I went back through the reporting at the time, and the west side project was led by someone called Renaud Barrière. He is mentioned in the TJ's coverage of this. We can assume the west side endeavour is done. However, it looks like they are hoping to expand to Fredericton and Moncton, which is exciting.

https://tj.news/new-brunswick/4-million-ball-hockey-complex-coming-to-saint-john

Quote:
It’s taken the company three years to get shovels in the ground, after two other sites in Saint John were considered and rejected. Renaud Barriere, Knapper’s facility manager, said the firm never wavered on Saint John as the place to start its Maritime expansion, citing the city’s “passionate” ball hockey community, which includes an estimated 1,500 players.

“It’s been three years since I came here to seek out a location for that facility. I am stubborn in life. This was a long marathon that ended today. If we got a no or a second no, we were convinced Saint John was where we wanted to start, so we kept going,” said Barriere, who said the company was looking to gauge the response to the Port City Knapper Centre before setting firm target dates for building similar ball hockey facilities in Moncton and Fredericton. Bazinet estimated a centre could be up and running in Moncton within two years, with Fredericton to follow two years after that.
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  #17053  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2025, 2:04 AM
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Originally Posted by irisheyes View Post
To be frank. All the people who have been in positions of marketing for the city need to be fired. Saint Awesome was equally embarrassing. These people know nothing lol.
I used to hate the Elsie Wayne slogan, "The Greatest Little City in the East". Reminded me of "The Greatest Little Whorehouse in Texas" (movie).

City definitely need better passive promotion than the ridiculous slogans they've come up with. They could likely get better ideas from students in elementary school.
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  #17054  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2025, 2:32 AM
StatelyElms StatelyElms is offline
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Originally Posted by michael_d40 View Post
I've always loathed that slogan. It undersells Saint John. Looks us looks like a rinky dink operation to investors out of town, and frankly if it disappeared yesterday it would not be soon enough. I've always been partial to. "Discover our past, discover your future" or something like that. The current one simply screams, we can't be bothered to grow, we are le tired. But hey - we have a big heart. Screams "backwards and can't be bothered" even though that's not the case anymore with Saint John. It's going places, but that motto - has GOT to go ASAP.
It feels like the city equivalent of "Live, Laugh, Love". The only praise I can give it is that it doesn't sound corporate. Screw the developers, it's demeaning to the community outright! Calling it a small city may be factually right but Saint John, to an outsider, feels more like a large city compacted than a small city. I definitely like the oldest-city or original-city slogans people are throwing into the hat much more.

Mind you, there's always option 3: do you really need a slogan in the first place?
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  #17055  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2025, 2:39 AM
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Do people really chose cities because of their slogans?
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  #17056  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2025, 2:45 AM
StatelyElms StatelyElms is offline
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Originally Posted by Pugsley View Post
Hello everyone! After seeing some of the posts here related to re-purposing the south port area into the Uptown, I thought I would pull out some work I did a long time ago for a master-plan for the area. I spent a few hours "dressing it up", but anyhow, here is what I had come up with many moons ago as a revitalized district, known as Southport. Enjoy!

...
Wow, I absolutely adore this. Looks like a fantastic place you've roughed out, even for someone as height-hesitant as myself.

I especially love how you've taken care to preserve the street grid and even to make a new central High Street in Trinity Royal style... beauty never truly falls out of fashion! And it'd make it an immediate staple.
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  #17057  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2025, 2:50 AM
StatelyElms StatelyElms is offline
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Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy View Post
Do people really chose cities because of their slogans?
My thoughts exactly

People don't buy Oreos because their ads say "stay playful", and I can't imagine a developer dealing with millions of dollars would do the equivalent either. If they were, maybe cities would be changing their coats-of-arms and flags to match the latest minimalist trends. (Please don't. I happen to think our municipal flags are pretty good.)

Then again, I'm not a marketing professional...
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  #17058  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2025, 3:40 AM
cdnguys cdnguys is online now
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Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy View Post
Do people really chose cities because of their slogans?
Slogans are important because they shape first impressions. A slogan is especially needed for SJ because there is a persistent and outdated image others have of the city. It’s reflective in the low number of tourists SJ attracts compared to Moncton and Halifax. A quick search of hotel prices will roughly show Halifax hotels in the $400 a night range, yet the Hilton and Delta in uptown SJ for the same nights at around $120 - a major bargain. If you’re in Moncton, you’re more than likely head to Halifax for a weekend. But why is that? 1/2 my family is in Halifax and we visit often, and the independent restaurant scene dare I say in Saint John is better?? The spaces are a lot more iconic and beautiful in SJ compared to Halifax. And food wise, there are more and different options for sure in Halifax but nothing that special IMO. I just find SJ nowadays has the feel of Halifax in the 1990’s when I lived there, just a more grounded raw maritime vibe. Gone are places like Alfredo Weinstein and Ho’s - now it’s trendy pricey places that start with “The” in their name. There is a just a certain comforting feeling being in a 150 year old brick and beam spaces, like Picaroons looking out onto the street with your dog and having pizza. Shopping wise again nothing super special going to Halifax for unless you like IKEA or Simon’s. I have friends in Moncton, and they think SJ is an old polluted city and they have never been here before. Other friends from Moncton came down and we gave them a tour of area - they had ZERO idea that SJ had dozens of KMs of Halifax northwest arm-type bay areas in the east west and north, with ferries running back and forth. So yea marketing is important and slogans are part of the tool kit. The Moncton area has a 215,000 person market to draw from and never understand why we don’t target them for SJ - seems like low hanging fruit.

Last edited by cdnguys; Nov 28, 2025 at 4:15 AM.
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  #17059  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2025, 1:11 PM
bingun bingun is online now
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The North End plan is almost here, it seems. I am looking forward to this one.

https://saintjohn.ca/en/news-and-notices/proposed-municipal-plan-amendment-0
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  #17060  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2025, 9:03 PM
Sabien Sabien is offline
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This photo shows 2 current and 2 recent (within 4-5 years) construction projects all in one shot.

Can anyone name the 4 I'm referring to?

And I'm not counting the bike lane on Charlotte St. LOL


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