YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[SpongeG]

I just found myself listening to a radio station from Hamilton today on an app and the traffic report was sponsored by Fiji Air, advertising the new Direct flight from Vancouver to Fiji. Also saw an ad for the Air Canada flight from Vancouver to Thailand at the outlet mall today, it says its North America's only direct flight.

[Johnny Aussie]

EVA to continue daily 77W flights next summer

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221103-brns23

Taipei Taoyuan – Vancouver 777-300ER continues to operate 1 daily, instead of previously filed 787-10

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

^ very true.
SEA’s DL hub covers most of the major US markets. A major overlap with SLC.
YVR is the only city in Western Canada with any decent DL service these days.

I see trofirhen is banging on about Emirates and Dubai again… the semi-annual post!

Delta leaves a lot of the heavy lifting to WestJet out of Calgary, NYC- JFK, Atlanta, Portland Seattle all code to Delta and you can connect.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Delta leaves a lot of the heavy lifting to WestJet out of Calgary, NYC- JFK, Atlanta, Portland Seattle all code to Delta and you can connect.

Nah. A few flights per week to JFK, a few flights per week to PDX (not a bit DL player anyway) and some days only one flight (at most 2) to SEA. Not really much either.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Nah. A few flights per week to JFK, a few flights per week to PDX (not a bit DL player anyway) and some days only one flight (at most 2) to SEA. Not really much either.

To be fair these are temporary reductions in the winter due to covid and operational challenges. Next winter they go back to 2x daily SEA and daily to JFK (and already there's a daily to ATL). I really don't think that's bad in the slightest. I don't know what else a city like YYC is supposed to see.

[Johnny Aussie]

Next winter way too early to predict anything.

Meanwhile AC continues to chip away at YYC as well… the Westjet effect is really taking a toll.
As for AC at YVR if/when they start to base some of their A220s there I am sure we’ll see a few new routes - IAH being the first. More MIA/FLL perhaps and MCO along with IAD on the Eastern Seaboard
Westjet still rostering a very substantial transborder program at YVR as well.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

The argument, as I understand it, was that EK would "cannibalize" routes out of YVR. True? Someone tell me, please.

Even if EK were granted daily rights into YVR, I doubt that would happen.

As an example, the U.A.E and the US have open skies, and EK flies to over a dozen destinations in the States, and you don't see European or competing airlines dropping routes due to so called "cannibalization".

I think it's high time Canada grants EK more access into Canada. You'd probably see EK go double daily to YYZ, and then add daily to YVR, YUL and YYC. That's about it.

Now that AC and EK are cooperating, I think eventually, Canada will grant more rights to EK. But I don't think it will be full open skies. If that happens, the priorities for EK will be to up YYZ to at least daily, and if there are more frequencies left, add service to YVR.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Excuse me. Yes, it's true, maybe I harp on certain topics too much, and I beg your pardon ... But is the ad hominem remark really necessary?

Don't mind him. His weekly jabs towards YYC are even worse...

Originally Posted by hehehe

To be fair these are temporary reductions in the winter due to covid and operational challenges. Next winter they go back to 2x daily SEA and daily to JFK (and already there's a daily to ATL). I really don't think that's bad in the slightest. I don't know what else a city like YYC is supposed to see.

Like i said, typical Johnny Aussie jabs towards YYC. Don't pay any attention.

With Ws building up YYC, it's only normal AC draws down some operations. There is only so much a market like YYC can sustain on the international/US front. Signs that a smallish market like YYC can't sustain two hub airlines.

Besides, wasn't it you that was saying over on the Calgary airport thread that YYC has more frequencies per week to Europe this winter compared to YVR?

That's pretty embarrassing for such a big market like YVR.....

Guess we now know which city is now king from Western Canada to Europe in winter...

[Denscity]

Ya we don't seem to care about Europe as much as the rest of the country.

[Johnny Aussie]

Ah dencity what’s he banging on about again. Easier just to ignore really haha.
Europe?
YVR has a very decent European network despite being the most geographically disadvantaged located city in Canada going that direction.
I’d say having 10 carriers operating YVR-Europe of which 6 operate year round is definitely impressive. Operating to 5 cities this winter LHR, FRA, AMS, CDG and IST. Not bad at all.
And as for next summer:
Condor and Edelweiss both increasing flights (Condor will be 5 weekly on larger A330s as well)
And don’t forget BA adding capacity and frequencies and a new route to LGW.
I also wonder if next summer will be Lufthansa’s last summer of 744s on the YVR-FRA route.
KLM planning daily 787-10 ops to AMS and AF planning daily 787-9 ops to CDG

Meanwhile looking the other direction AC is set to restart YVR-AKL next week.
And not long now for AC’s launch of YVR-BKK.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Even if EK were granted daily rights into YVR, I doubt that would happen.

As an example, the U.A.E and the US have open skies, and EK flies to over a dozen destinations in the States, and you don't see European or competing airlines dropping routes due to so called "cannibalization".

I think it's high time Canada grants EK more access into Canada. You'd probably see EK go double daily to YYZ, and then add daily to YVR, YUL and YYC. That's about it.

Now that AC and EK are cooperating, I think eventually, Canada will grant more rights to EK. But I don't think it will be full open skies. If that happens, the priorities for EK will be to up YYZ to at least daily, and if there are more frequencies left, add service to YVR.



Don't mind him. His weekly jabs towards YYC are even worse...



Like i said, typical Johnny Aussie jabs towards YYC. Don't pay any attention.

With Ws building up YYC, it's only normal AC draws down some operations. There is only so much a market like YYC can sustain on the international/US front. Signs that a smallish market like YYC can't sustain two hub airlines.

Besides, wasn't it you that was saying over on the Calgary airport thread that YYC has more frequencies per week to Europe this winter compared to YVR?

That's pretty embarrassing for such a big market like YVR.....

Guess we now know which city is now king from Western Canada to Europe in winter...

Yeah, AC will turn YYC into more of a small focus city for prairie based people who have AC loyalty (I mean YYC has already turned into that). AC is definitely getting squeezed out of the market and there's definitely not enough space for both.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Ah dencity what’s he banging on about again. Easier just to ignore really haha.
Europe?
YVR has a very decent European network despite being the most geographically disadvantaged located city in Canada going that direction.

On one hand YVR is more geographically disadvantaged than any other Canadian city, but YVR does have a large market and catchment area in BC. YYC isn't very blessed geographically in that direction either, and while YYC can still get AB/SK/some BC connections, it's interesting to see YYC with slightly more European service compared to YVR, which is pretty much double the size of YYC and a much more attractive and well known city too.

Either way both cities see an impressive amount of service I'd say.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Ah dencity what’s he banging on about again. Easier just to ignore really haha.
Europe?
YVR has a very decent European network despite being the most geographically disadvantaged located city in Canada going that direction.
I’d say having 10 carriers operating YVR-Europe of which 6 operate year round is definitely impressive. Operating to 5 cities this winter LHR, FRA, AMS, CDG and IST. Not bad at all.
And as for next summer:
Condor and Edelweiss both increasing flights (Condor will be 5 weekly on larger A330s as well)
And don’t forget BA adding capacity and frequencies and a new route to LGW.
I also wonder if next summer will be Lufthansa’s last summer of 744s on the YVR-FRA route.
KLM planning daily 787-10 ops to AMS and AF planning daily 787-9 ops to CDG

Meanwhile looking the other direction AC is set to restart YVR-AKL next week.
And not long now for AC’s launch of YVR-BKK.

Ya its funny he's obsessed with the YVR thread but avoids his own YUL thread like the plague. And so does everyone else.

[Johnny Aussie]

^ YVR’s European network ALWAYS takes a huge hit in winter. It’s very seasonal - nothing new here
10 years ago YYC European winter operations were much larger than YVR’s with AC BA LH and KL all fielding frequent flights and don’t forget even Thomas Cook and Monarch etc had 4 weekly flights from the UK. Back then YYC had 34 weekly flights to YVR’s 26 weekly. YYC has the advantage of drawing from the larger YVR market of course
However summer of course a totally different ball of wax

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

^ YVR’s European network ALWAYS takes a huge hit in winter. It’s very seasonal - nothing new here
10 years ago YYC European winter operations were much larger than YVR’s with AC BA LH and KL all fielding frequent flights and don’t forget even Thomas Cook and Monarch etc had 4 weekly flights from the UK. Back then YYC had 34 weekly flights to YVR’s 26 weekly. YYC has the advantage of drawing from the larger YVR market of course
However summer of course a totally different ball of wax

You're right, but even if YYC draws some passengers from YVR (and the prairies) 31x weekly flights during post covid recovery in the winter for a city like Calgary is pretty impressive. So is YVR's service even in the winter. YVR has an impressive amount of airlines and destinations.

I'm not making this a YYC vs YVR thing, just saying that both can have good service levels at the same time without putting down either one of them and turning everything into a comparison about how X is so much better than Y.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

^ YVR’s European network ALWAYS takes a huge hit in winter. It’s very seasonal - nothing new here
10 years ago YYC European winter operations were much larger than YVR’s with AC BA LH and KL all fielding frequent flights and don’t forget even Thomas Cook and Monarch etc had 4 weekly flights from the UK. Back then YYC had 34 weekly flights to YVR’s 26 weekly. YYC has the advantage of drawing from the larger YVR market of course
However summer of course a totally different ball of wax

Ok wow. 10 years ! So it's even more embarrassing than I thought !

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by hehehe

You're right, but even if YYC draws some passengers from YVR (and the prairies) 31x weekly flights during post covid recovery in the winter for a city like Calgary is pretty impressive. So is YVR's service even in the winter. YVR has an impressive amount of airlines and destinations.

I'm not making this a YYC vs YVR thing, just saying that both can have good service levels at the same time without putting down either one of them and turning everything into a comparison about how X is so much better than Y.

Yes. And Westjet will no doubt be the (possibly only) source of growth. 10 weekly to AMS from YYC is impressive especially in the winter.

Now just to get a link from YYC to Asia… just one!

[nname]

Originally Posted by hehehe

I'm not making this a YYC vs YVR thing, just saying that both can have good service levels at the same time without putting down either one of them and turning everything into a comparison about how X is so much better than Y.

Well, even if most of us trying to avoid as much as possible, but it's hard to avoid city vs city in this type of threads... There is a finite resource for each airline, so they'll have to pick one city over another. There's always a competition between each city/airport trying to secure routes and improve service even if we pretend it's not happening in the background.

Just some examples of what's going on lately that involves just YVR (in the last 5 years or so):
- AC moves YEG-LHR to YVR-LHR, and YOW-LHR to YUL-LHR
- AC move YYC-NRT to YYZ-NRT and funnel traffic from YYC to YVR
- HU picks SZX-YVR over PEK-YYC as their next-best-choice after XIY-YYZ becomes unviable
- WS cancels intercontinental flying from YYZ, YHZ, and potentially YVR and move everything to YYC
- AC moves YYC-IAH to YVR
- WS split some YVR-SNA to YYC (and DL uses WS's slot to fly domestically)
- TN starts PPT-SEA instead of YVR
- DL suspend YVR-SLC and upgauge YYC-SLC
- WS move some of the service to YXX and transfer to WO

If you just go to the YEG thread, you'll see a huge list involving YEG....

[Johnny Aussie]

The DL to SLC suspension is quite short and not long ago DL didn’t even operate to MSP in the winter. DL can serve YVR through SEA with 5 daily as SEA covers much of the larger YVR-USA markets easily. SLC almost redundant. MSP much more important for Eastern connections but even then SEA is well placed for that.

AC starting IAH year round is a big step to further USA expansion I believe as more A220 flying occurs.
I still am really surprised AC has dropped YYC-LAX and YYC-IAH for the winter. I would have thought those two routes would hold on. Not even mustering up an A220 for those routes? AC starting IAH from YVR instead is a huge vote of confidence.
Will see if DFW in fact comes back - AC serving IAH, DFW and AUS from YVR seemed like a pipe dream not so long ago.

I also think this is the only winter where AC’s only route out of YZF is to YVR.
Normally YEG and YYC served as well.

What WS services were moved to YXX?

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

What WS services were moved to YXX?

WS ran YXU and YHM from YVR for a few years. Both routes were transferred to WO and ran from YXX for a year or two before the pandemic killed them.

This was recently came up after F8 adds YVR-YXU.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Yes. And Westjet will no doubt be the (possibly only) source of growth. 10 weekly to AMS from YYC is impressive especially in the winter.

Now just to get a link from YYC to Asia… just one!

Yeah, YYC could make (only) one Asian route work, and WS is probably best suited for that.

China seems to be opening up little by little so I think after next summer YVR could see a lot of China traffic come back. I can't imagine how full the current YVR-China flights probably are, capacity is being completely outstripped by demand.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I still am really surprised AC has dropped YYC-LAX and YYC-IAH for the winter.

I think YVR-IAH will be replacing YYC-IAH on AC permanently. They just haven't updated the schedule May 1 and beyond yet.