The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Pugsley]

I'm surprised by the data centre proposal. My understanding was that these were banned as they were an immense drain on NB Power's capacity. I cannot recall where I read it but I believe there are two today, and that a moratorium was put in to stop new ones as the drain on the grid was too much.

Anyone else recall this?

[bingun]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

I'm surprised by the data centre proposal. My understanding was that these were banned as they were an immense drain on NB Power's capacity. I cannot recall where I read it but I believe there are two today, and that a moratorium was put in to stop new ones as the drain on the grid was too much.

Anyone else recall this?

I believe it was cryptocurrency mining operations that were the problem, and I believe they are no longer possible. I want to say there is some setup in Northern NB somewhere?

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by bingun

I believe it was cryptocurrency mining operations that were the problem, and I believe they are no longer possible. I want to say there is some setup in Northern NB somewhere?

Yes, that's what it was. I wonder if that is what this is as well? That or a company looking for a data centre that might rely on the wind power from Saint John Energy in the area. That's a big selling feature for carbon credits, etc.

Either way, a billion dollar investment is nothing to laugh about. That could do great things for the local economy.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

The Lorneville opposition was flawed from day one. There was never a sense that they would be ok with ANY development... now they're getting a lot of it.

They could probably have gotten more restrictions, an even bigger buffer, and/or a Nature Conservancy land donation, if they weren't using 'nothing should be built here ever' messaging.

I've posted before on here, but their positioning of the area as magical remote wilderness comes across as facetious to anyone with Google Maps. Coleson Cove to the south, a wind farm planning expansion to the west, an existing industrial park and highway access to the north, and a barge terminal to the northeast.

What I am surprised about is Council having some cojones on this.

I agree with this, I think their maximalist approach and unwillingness to give any ground worked against them. I understand they may have thought this was the strongest position to take, but as the CEO of Saint John Industrial Parks spoke to last night, this is the only viable location in the city, so the options are to develop here or not do any large-scale industrial development. Given the city's prior financial difficulties, inaction is not a viable option unless we want the city to stagnate and fall behind its peers.

I also grow frustrated at the angle that we don't need industry, and we should be promoting things like eco-tourism, etc. I think tourism is excellent, and I believe there is an opportunity for expansion and growth. However, the idea that we can pivot our entire local economy is a fantasy. We will never have thousands of people lining up to visit Black Beach or the nearby lighthouse.

Highlights from Facebook this morning -

Joanna Killen

What happened last night is not okay and I need to talk about it. I won't be debating the issue of the Lorneville hearing itself in the comment section but this needs to live on my page now.
After the public hearing, my colleague and partner Brent was the target of an attempted physical assault. A resident yelled at him aggressively, claiming the issue wasn’t in *his* backyard—then lunged at us.
This wasn’t a disagreement. It was intimidation.
Over the past few weeks, tensions around this development have grown into something toxic. We’ve had people reference where we live and where Brent’s children live. Longtime acquaintances have made borderline threats. The environment around this decision has felt less like democracy and more like targeted hostility.
I understand opposing development. I’ve lived it here around the horseshoe and have had significant disagreements with staff and my colleagues over the years. For four years I’ve worked on the inside and the outside of these systems, trying to be a bridge. I’ve tried to move slowly, thoughtfully, and always in service of the public good.
But I want to be clear: What happened last night has crossed a line.
As councillors, we are limited in what we can say during hearings. We are expected to be impartial—until the moment we vote. That doesn’t mean we aren’t listening. That doesn’t mean we don’t struggle with the weight of these decisions.
Brent and I have both poured time, money, and energy into shaping a better Saint John. We’ve challenged systems, opened doors, pushed for real solutions—from housing and homelessness to tax reform and transit innovation. We’ve never taken these responsibilities lightly.
This development, in particular, was one of the most scrutinized and heavily conditioned industrial projects in the country. We’re not ignoring the city’s history—we’re actively trying to do it differently because of it.
We need food infrastructure. We need export-ready space. We need jobs. And we need to be able to talk about those needs without fear.
To anyone who is angry, frustrated, or hurt by this process—I hear you. But violence and threats are not how we make change. They silence people, push good people away, and make it harder for anyone to step up.
I’m still here. But last night made it a lot harder. And I think everyone who cares about our city should take that seriously.

Chris Watson

Several hundred letters were submitted to council in opposition of the proposed Heavy Industrial Park in Lorneville, from residents of Lorneville, Saint John, and beyond.
15 letters were submitted in favour: 12 from industry, 2 from residents, 1 from MP Wayne Long
At the public hearing:
75 residents of Lorneville, Saint John, and beyond spoke against the proposal.
3 people spoke in favour.
99% of the Lorneville community signed a petition to council in opposition of the proposal.
4,500 people worldwide signed an online petition in opposition of the proposal.
Over 70 questions and concerns from Lorneville residents have still not been answered or addressed.
9 City Councillors voted in favour of the proposal, 0 voted against.
The overwhelming opposition to the proposed Heavy Industrial Park in Lorneville makes one thing clear: This City Council is not representing the will of its constituents. This is a profound and deeply disappointing failure of democratic representation.
Hundreds of letters were dismissed. Dozens of heartfelt testimonies were ignored. Thousands of petition signatures were brushed aside. Seventy detailed questions from the local community remain unanswered. And yet, Council proceeded not as representatives of the people, but as puppets of city staff and facilitators of a project the people clearly do not want.
This is not how representation is supposed to work. Residents feel, and are, unheard, sidelined, and disrespected. The democratic process was reduced to a formality, the outcome preordained. Council has not just voted against a community’s wishes. They have undermined public trust.
The City and Province are about to learn what it means to try and force an industrial park on a community that stands in resound and unanimous opposition. Lorneville will not back down. We will be louder, stronger, and more united than ever. The next phase of this fight will be very different.
Proud to stand with a community that refuses to be silenced, coerced, or deceived, and is fighting for its future.

[OliverD]

And of course that post references a "Heavy Industrial Park" and it doesn't sound like that's what it will be.

Kind of like when people describe four storey apartment buildings as "high rises" – it sounds scarier.

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

I could agree with Lorenville residents in their opposition to the industrial park if it was going to be heavy industry like pulp mills and etc. but they live in a community surrendered by industrial parks, power plants, highways, etc. as Adam said said earlier Lorenville is not some rustic rural town. It’s a part of Saint John and is know for the industrial park. Maybe with the industrial park expansion more housing and amenities could come to Lorenville. But they would probably be against any sort of housing as they seem to be NIMBY to the extreme.

[DyAm00394]

Saint John Energy has announced NB's largest solar farm is coming to the city.

"New Brunswick's largest solar farm is coming to Saint John! A groundbreaking partnership between Neqotkuk and Universal Kraft will power 1,200+ homes with clean energy".

AllNewBrunswick's headline on this news says it's coming to East SJ. Wonder where it will be exactly?

[bingun]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Saint John Energy has announced NB's largest solar farm is coming to the city.



AllNewBrunswick's headline on this news says it's coming to East SJ. Wonder where it will be exactly?

I was thinking about SJ Energy's interest in solar the other day after they asked for proposals last year. I am really happy to see this moving forward and believe that diversifying our grid is crucial.

As for the location, it sounds like somewhere along Old Black River Road on crown land.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/atlantic/new-brun...s-to-build-provinces-largest-solar-farm/

https://sjenergy.ca/go-green/zero30/menahquesk-kisuhs-solar

EDIT

I don't know how up-to-date this map is, but crown land is fairly limited on Old Black River Road, but this should give an idea of the options.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by bingun

From tonight's council meeting -

The city declined its right of first refusal to repurchase 450 Fallsview Drive (the smaller restaurant/café unit off the Reversing Falls parking lot).

This suggests that the current owner has sold the property.

I was wrong about the sale, see the details below.

SUBJECT: Option to Repurchase 450 Falls View Drive

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY OF COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE REPORT FOR OPEN
SESSION OF COUNCIL

At its meeting held April 17, 2023, Council approved the sale of its property at 450 Fallsview Drive to Westside Holdings Inc. The Agreement of Purchase and Sale included terms and conditions that are intended to protect the City’s interests to ensure the Purchaser fulfilled the intent to revitalize the building and to bring a quality business to this site. A recent inspection of the property by staff revealed that the Purchaser has invested a significant amount of money into the building and land to date. Although an Occupancy Permit has yet to be issued, the owner is anticipating being in a position to obtain such a permit during the later part of this year or early in 2026. Given the financial investment already committed to this property, understanding the challenges in obtaining construction materials and labor to complete the construction, and expecting that an occupancy permit will be sought by the owner in short order, staff are recommending that Council choose not to exercise its Option to repurchase the property.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by bingun

I was thinking about SJ Energy's interest in solar the other day after they asked for proposals last year. I am really happy to see this moving forward and believe that diversifying our grid is crucial.

As for the location, it sounds like somewhere along Old Black River Road on crown land.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/atlantic/new-brun...s-to-build-provinces-largest-solar-farm/

EDIT

I don't know how up-to-date this map is, but crown land is fairly limited on Old Black River Road, but this should give an idea of the options.



https://sjenergy.ca/go-green/zero30/menahquesk-kisuhs-solar

I went to my trusty AI bot and got their quick rendition of available sunshine in Saint John:

In Saint John, the average daily sunshine hours can vary significantly throughout the year:

Winter (December to February): Approximately 3 to 5 hours of sunshine per day.
Spring (March to May): Ranges from about 5 to 8 hours of sunshine per day.
Summer (June to August): Typically sees the most sunshine, averaging around 8 to 10 hours per day.
Fall (September to November): Generally ranges from about 5 to 7 hours of sunshine per day.

I wouldn't want to disconnect myself from the grid with those kinds of stats. Just sayin'.

This is potentially going to generate 10MW when the sun is shining brightly directly pointing at the panels. I understand the panels are designed to follow the sun, so the only variable is how often do you get cloudless and fogless days.

Maybe there is one of those locations that gets less fog. In general, it would most likely be the farthest inland and/or the highest altitude.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

I went to my trusty AI bot and got their quick rendition of available sunshine in Saint John:

In Saint John, the average daily sunshine hours can vary significantly throughout the year:

Winter (December to February): Approximately 3 to 5 hours of sunshine per day.
Spring (March to May): Ranges from about 5 to 8 hours of sunshine per day.
Summer (June to August): Typically sees the most sunshine, averaging around 8 to 10 hours per day.
Fall (September to November): Generally ranges from about 5 to 7 hours of sunshine per day.

I wouldn't want to disconnect myself from the grid with those kinds of stats. Just sayin'.

This is potentially going to generate 10MW when the sun is shining brightly directly pointing at the panels. I understand the panels are designed to follow the sun, so the only variable is how often do you get cloudless and fogless days.

Maybe there is one of those locations that gets less fog. In general, it would most likely be the farthest inland and/or the highest altitude.

This new generation of solar panels don’t require full sun, they function in fog, rain and snow. They even benefit from sun reflecting off of the snow on ground as they are bipanel ( I think that’s term they use ). Also, up in that area can be sunny when uptown is foggy.

[adamuptownsj]

We could turn Coleson Cove on full-time and not live in fear of power outages, but I guess not.

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

Regarding the expansion of the industrial park ive had someone say to me that it should have been put to a referendum. Which is a wild idea without considering that the vote would be a large majority to expand. The only people I’ve seen upset at the expansion is people from Lorenville and some progressive's

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by CharlotteCountyLogan

Regarding the expansion of the industrial park ive had someone say to me that it should have been put to a referendum. Which is a wild idea without considering that the vote would be a large majority to expand. The only people I’ve seen upset at the expansion is people from Lorenville and some progressive's

A referendum among whom? Lorneville residents? City of Saint John Residents? or all the residents of "the Saint John Region"?

I'm not sure they'd like the results of the latter two referenda.

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

We could turn Coleson Cove on full-time and not live in fear of power outages, but I guess not.

Is anyone living in constant fear of power outages? I've noticed more power outages in recent years, but overall, there's far less here than many other places I've lived in Canada. I've always chalked that up to being not too far away from a nuclear power plant, Coleson Cove, and now the wind farm.

I'm not opposed to turning Coleson Cove "on" more often, at least not in the short term, but in the long term, I think the province should explore the feasibility of turning it into a natural gas fired powered plant, or something more ambitious, like a major battery storage facility, which could make sense given the nearby wind farm. Moreover, if we do, in fact, see millions of square feet of warehouses, manufacturing buildings, data centres, etc, constructed as part of the Lorneville industrial park expansion, then I think there will be a huge opportunity for solar power on top of those buildings, which would all be located a stone's throw away from Coleson Cove. That's without even getting into other opportunities for alternative energy solutions in the surrounding area, or a second CANDU reactor at Point Lepreau.

Long term, I think turning Coleson Cove into a huge battery storage solution for NB power would be even better solution than converting it to natural gas.

But yes, for now, I see no harm in turning it on more often, but full time? I'm not so sure about that. Isn't Coleson Cove still the single sulphur dioxide emitter in the province, despite its non "full time" usage? I think we have better options in the short term, and have far better options in the medium and long term, than turning Coleson Cove back on, "full time".

[JakeNB]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I'm not opposed to turning Coleson Cove "on" more often, at least not in the short term, but in the long term, I think the province should explore the feasibility of turning it into a natural gas fired powered plant, or something more ambitious, like a major battery storage facility, which could make sense given the nearby wind farm.

You do understand that will never happen. NB Power hates SJ Energy and refused to allow it to use their wires to transmit the wind farm power to the city. They would never work with SJ Energy on a cooperative basis.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

You do understand that will never happen. NB Power hates SJ Energy and refused to allow it to use their wires to transmit the wind farm power to the city. They would never work with SJ Energy on a cooperative basis.

Wait, how would converting Coleson Cove into a natural gas fired power plant , or turning it into a battery storage facility have anything to do with Saint John energy?

First off, Saint John Energy does not own the windfarm...

The Burchill Wind project is co-owned by Natural Forces, a Halifax-based company that delivers renewable energy projects in partnership with local communities across Canada and Ireland, and Neqotkuk Maliseet, or Tobique First Nation, the majority owner.

From what I understand, NB Power was mad about the Wind Farm "freeloading" or something like that a while back, and that they don't get along with Saint John Energy in general, but again, I fail to see how any of that would interfere with plans to convert Coleson Cove to a natural gas fired power plant, or into a substantial battery storage facility?

NB Power would remain the sole owner of Coleson Cove facility, whether it was converted into natural gas fired power plant, or converted into a battery storage facility. Moreover, if NB Power did convert Coleson Cove into a battery storage facility, it would let them tap into the Wind farm as a source of power, which would seemingly deal with their bone of contention with that wind farm project.

The only party that might be pissed about turning Coleson Cove into a battery storage facility would be Saint John Energy, as it could impact how much energy the wind farm would be supplying Saint John energy with.

If I'm missing something or failing to understand something though, please, do fill me in, as I'd like to know.

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

A referendum among whom? Lorneville residents? City of Saint John Residents? or all the residents of "the Saint John Region"?

I'm not sure they'd like the results of the latter two referenda.



Is anyone living in constant fear of power outages? I've noticed more power outages in recent years, but overall, there's far less here than many other places I've lived in Canada. I've always chalked that up to being not too far away from a nuclear power plant, Coleson Cove, and now the wind farm.

I'm not opposed to turning Coleson Cove "on" more often, at least not in the short term, but in the long term, I think the province should explore the feasibility of turning it into a natural gas fired powered plant, or something more ambitious, like a major battery storage facility, which could make sense given the nearby wind farm. Moreover, if we do, in fact, see millions of square feet of warehouses, manufacturing buildings, data centres, etc, constructed as part of the Lorneville industrial park expansion, then I think there will be a huge opportunity for solar power on top of those buildings, which would all be located a stone's throw away from Coleson Cove. That's without even getting into other opportunities for alternative energy solutions in the surrounding area, or a second CANDU reactor at Point Lepreau.

Long term, I think turning Coleson Cove into a huge battery storage solution for NB power would be even better solution than converting it to natural gas.

But yes, for now, I see no harm in turning it on more often, but full time? I'm not so sure about that. Isn't Coleson Cove still the single sulphur dioxide emitter in the province, despite its non "full time" usage? I think we have better options in the short term, and have far better options in the medium and long term, than turning Coleson Cove back on, "full time".

This guy is on the left of the NDP so take his opinions as you will but I think he wants a referendum on the expansion voted on by people who live in fhe city. Though who really knows

[bingun]

Referendums are generally not a good idea unless the topic is well understood by most of the population, which industrial land zoning certainly would not be. They also need to be timed with other elections, else the turnout is typically minimal, which means it would have to be next year with the municipal elections, by which stage, half the companies interested in setting up shop may have gone elsewhere.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by CharlotteCountyLogan

This guy is on the left of the NDP so take his opinions as you will but I think he wants a referendum on the expansion voted on by people who live in fhe city. Though who really knows

I don't even know he's actually to the left of them, but he's certainly not a very reasonable, or consistent politician. I hope he exits politics sooner, rather than later, but I wouldn't bet on it!

It's ridiculous he thinks a referendum would have been appropriate for this proposed expansion.

Heck, I don't think I'd even want a CMA wide referendum on regional amalgamation, as I don't think we'd have the winning conditions for a yes vote. Such a referendum would probably for require something like 80% of city residents to vote in favour for the yes side to win, and the no campaign would be out in full force to convince Saint John voters to vote against it. Plus, there's no need for a referendum on amalgamation, when the province could do based on the economic benefit, without a vote.

Referendums for council decisions like this don't really make sense, and sort of defeat the purpose of having a democratically elected city council in the first place, not that Brent Harris cares about democracy... he just likes to stir the pot and be the subject of public discussion. whoops! lol

[cdnguys]