HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > Downtown & City of Hamilton


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #141  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 12:18 AM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,054
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt602 View Post
I gotta say that shocks the hell out of me. I'm still wondering if thats sincerity or lip service to try to redeem their "good" name.

I guess we'll see. So far they aren't saying anything like this publically. Just in private. I don't trust them AT ALL anymore.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #142  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 12:54 AM
matt602's Avatar
matt602 matt602 is offline
Hammer'd
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 4,800
After going through this thread, reading the news articles and specifically comments from the mayor, I got even more pissed off. Just 2 days ago, Mayor Fred was quoted as saying "the deal is far from off" in response to the $37/sq. ft price. Not even 12 hours later he suddenly is saying "Yah we're walking away and I urge LIUNA to demolish the building".

I can see where you guys are getting the lack of leadership from.
__________________
"Above all, Hamilton must learn to think like a city, not a suburban hybrid where residents drive everywhere. What makes Hamilton interesting is the fact it's a city. The sprawl that surrounds it, which can be found all over North America, is running out of time."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #143  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 1:12 AM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,303
Just look recently where over a month Mayor Fred was only requesting $12 million from the province and even got council to go behind it during the budget process. Now all of a sudden with Finance Minister Duncan in town Mayor Fred said it was a mistake and it should be $20 million instead. Jeez! How could you make a mistake with $12 million from $20 million for over a month!?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #144  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 1:35 AM
the dude the dude is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,812
caught the end of a discussion on cable 14's 'the opinionators.' a lot of uninformed banter, though matt jelly, as per usual, made numerous coherent points.

ya, i think liuna going to the province talking about renovation is just posturing. there isn't a chance in hell they'll do that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #145  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 2:47 AM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Dalton View Post
I think this is more of a matter of economic realities than it is LIUNA being crooks or the city being tightwads.
Problem is LIUNA has been approached, at least informally, about selling Lister and they sternly announced "IT'S NOT FOR SALE". So... if they can't make it work, AND they won't sell, it should not be our problem. Put it on the market and see what happens.
__________________
no clever signoff.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #146  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 3:01 AM
flar's Avatar
flar flar is online now
..........
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 15,678
Surely if someone wants to buy Lister it shouldn't be demolished. That would be totally ridiculous.
__________________
RECENT PHOTOS:
TORONTOSAN FRANCISCO ROCHESTER, NYHAMILTONGODERICH, ON WHEATLEY, ONCOBOURG, ONLAS VEGASLOS ANGELES
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #147  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 4:11 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,421
We may never know... about the only thing coming out of LIUNA's mouth these days that we can trust is "Lister is not for sale"

Of course, why would they give up that property when it's such great blackmail material?
__________________
no clever signoff.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #148  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 5:30 PM
DC83 DC83 is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,430
Finance Minister chimes in on Lister Block
Jan, 09 2008 - 6:00 AM

HAMILTON (AM900 CHML) - The province's 7-million dollar contribution toward the redevelopment of the Lister Block is now in jeopardy.
Council's decision to back away from a deal to lease space in the building because of skyrocketing costs, means its renovation plans are now in doubt.

Finance Minister Dwight Duncan says his government is committed to preserving Ontario's heritage.

Duncan says the 7-million dollars in provincial money was to go towards the Lister Block's restoration and will not be available for other projects in the downtown core.

However, the minister also suggested his government was not going to intervene and declare the block a heritage site, preventing it from being demolished.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger insists the Lister restoration is not dead and he believes it could still happen without the city's involvement.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #149  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 5:31 PM
DC83 DC83 is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,430
^^ "committed to preserving Ontario's hertiage..."
Sooo why NOT designate it a Provincial Heritage Site?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #150  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 3:47 AM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,054
these guys are ridiculous...he was on radio yesterday and reading all the same newspaper article as us and only now decides to say this??

http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/307065

it was a bluff all along......haha..stupid LIUNA! up yours!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #151  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 7:40 AM
matt602's Avatar
matt602 matt602 is offline
Hammer'd
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 4,800
Now this is just getting hilarious.

Liuna: "Yah that number was too high, what are you guys smoking?"
City: "What are we smoking? YOU made up the number!"
Liuna: "Uh well I guess we'll make up a new one then! yay!"



Alright even if this ends horribly now, at least there will be lol's to look back at.
__________________
"Above all, Hamilton must learn to think like a city, not a suburban hybrid where residents drive everywhere. What makes Hamilton interesting is the fact it's a city. The sprawl that surrounds it, which can be found all over North America, is running out of time."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #152  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 9:56 AM
matt602's Avatar
matt602 matt602 is offline
Hammer'd
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 4,800
I just noticed that the Spec put up a "walthrough" of Lister. It's pretty nice, you guys should check it out. It'll give you a view of Lister that I have, and why I adore it so much.
__________________
"Above all, Hamilton must learn to think like a city, not a suburban hybrid where residents drive everywhere. What makes Hamilton interesting is the fact it's a city. The sprawl that surrounds it, which can be found all over North America, is running out of time."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #153  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 1:53 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,303
To me it sounds like the Province may have to be the tenant now, hence why LIUNA is talking with the Province. Public Health department is likely to relocate with the new site at the School Board Centre.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #154  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 3:01 PM
realcity's Avatar
realcity realcity is offline
Bruatalism gets no respec
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Williamsville NY
Posts: 4,059
Why does it have to be OFFICE SPACE? It's far better suited for apartments, the street is better for residents too. damn.
__________________
Height restrictions and Set-backs are for Nimbys and the suburbs.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #155  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 3:32 PM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,054
Quote:
Originally Posted by realcity View Post
Why does it have to be OFFICE SPACE? It's far better suited for apartments, the street is better for residents too. damn.
because LIUNA wants to get a government agency to pay a ridiculous lease rate so they can toss tons of money in the air.
Apartments/condos would be awesome, I agree.
LIUNA is clueless about that though.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #156  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2008, 12:17 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,303
Better deal? City ponders purchase of Lister Block

Andrew Dreschel
The Hamilton Spectator
(Jan 11, 2008)

The Lister project may not be dead yet.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger says the city is prepared to discuss buying the downtown landmark instead of leasing it.

And MPP Ted McMeekin, Hamilton's voice in cabinet, says the province will consider using its $7 million grant to offset the purchase price, if it means restoring the heritage building
.

According to the developers, it makes more economic sense for the city to buy the Lister outright than enter into a long-term lease.

Under their proposal, LIUNA and Hi-Rise would renovate the skid-row building and then sell it the city at a fixed price of $25 million.

Hi-Rise president Warren Green suggests the city could use the $7 million from the province as a down payment and then borrow the remaining $18 million, which could be amortized over a 20-year term.

Green says that will bring the price down to about $23 a square foot. That's a far cry from the deal-breaking $37 a foot rental rate that would have cost the city $44 million over 20 years, which council rejected out of hand.

Green says the proposal to sell has been the developers' preferred option since they realized the high cost of restoration would drive leasing rates "ridiculously high. We didn't think it made sense to lease under any conditions," said Green, speaking in a telephone interview from his vacation in Thailand.

But the purchase option gained no traction when it was presented to council this week.

That may be because finance manager Joe Rinaldo told councillors it would end up costing the city about $30 a square foot if they bought the restored building.

But Rinaldo didn't factor in the possibility of using the province's $7 million as a down payment. He says he didn't because conditions stipulate the grant is to be used to offset leasing rates.

"The money is there to lease," said Rinaldo.

Nonetheless, Eisenberger believes the province will be amenable to using the money as long as it results in the Lister's restoration.

"I think there's an opportunity to continue talking seriously about how we're going to move forward," he said.

But Eisenberger cautions city staff will have to carefully assess the proposal and any deal has to make economic sense for the city.

Rinaldo notes any purchase price would have to include at least another $2 million in "tenant improvements."

The mayor is meeting today with LIUNA's Joe Mancinelli, McMeekin and Liberal MPP Sophia Aggelonitis to discuss all options.

"If the city has a specific proposal it wants to make involving restoration, we would be prepared to hear it," said McMeekin.

Both McMeekin and Mancinelli are surprised that in an 8-5 vote council refused to take advantage of the province's offer to verify the accuracy of the developers' figures.

So is Councillor Brian McHattie, the Lister crusader who unsuccessfully urged his colleagues to keep the process going.

"It's all about trying to figure out what the right number is," said McHattie.

"I don't think we can afford to say that $37 a square foot is too high or that $25 million is too high to buy it, so don't even talk to us.

"This is a very important building for the future of Hamilton. It's an icon of downtown, good or bad."

Meanwhile, in a blistering letter to councillors, Mancinelli expressed shock about the way they dealt with the Lister deal, from refusing the independent review to not seeking LIUNA's input.

"Is it any wonder why we can't attract significant investment into our core when council reacts and/or overreacts in this way?" he asks.

But it's clear LIUNA and Hi-Rise have had communication problems of their own.

For example, a peeved Mancinelli apparently had no idea that the $37 a foot figure came from Hi-Rise, not city staff.

Mancinelli says he knows $37 is not "politically possible," but he's convinced there are other "innovative options" available.

If the city doesn't want to buy Lister, he says it could ask the province to put the $7 million toward the construction costs, which would lower the leasing rate.

For his part, after talking to Mancinelli, McHattie is convinced LIUNA is committed to restoration and he's more optimistic that a deal can be salvaged.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #157  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2008, 12:47 PM
DC83 DC83 is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,430
Quote:
For his part, after talking to Mancinelli, McHattie is convinced LIUNA is committed to restoration and he's more optimistic that a deal can be salvaged.
Hmmm... McHattie is pretty trustworthy. Interesting developments. Damn, this saga is never-ending! Let's hope for the best... again...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #158  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2008, 1:45 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,303
Sounds like this could be a good deal especially if the City buys the building. If the city buys it they could request more retail space, aka bring back the arcade.

Now they just have to hurry the hell up as there's a deadline for the $7 million.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #159  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2008, 1:50 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,303
$18,000,000 over 20 years.

$900,000 per year or $75,000 monthly mortgage. Seems doable. A lot better than $53 million over 20 years. Obviously this is just an estimate.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #160  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2008, 1:56 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,303
Mayor Fred will be on chml at 9am to talk about the Lister Block.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > Downtown & City of Hamilton
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:01 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.