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  #15941  
Old Posted May 13, 2025, 9:47 PM
bingun bingun is offline
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During the city growth committee meeting this afternoon was a mention of an update regarding the proposed ball hockey facility for 1660 Manawagonish Road. The facility is now being relocated to an industrial park according to a city councillor. (No further information was mentioned).
This was the infographic for Jan-Apr, showing $185M vs $39.7M for the previous 5-year average. They mentioned that a large portion of this was the two new schools (about $100M), but excluding them, the value is still roughly $84M, far higher than average.

Building permits for the NB Museum and the Next Gen Pulp & Paper project are expected shortly, pushing the value up to an anticipated record-breaking year.

Did you pick up on Barry Ogden's other comments? Something along the lines of - Progress is still being made on St Vincent's and St Patrick's school redevelopment. Not much detail there but good to hear.

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  #15942  
Old Posted May 14, 2025, 12:01 AM
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First cabinet pick for Saint John since Brian Mulroney... guess it takes a Paddy in the PMO for that to happen.

I hope Mr. Long becomes a little more humble with his promotion, but I also hope he refocusses his attention back on the City of Saint John, which has the most systemic problems in the region in need of government funding and assistance. I understand he had to really embrace KV for the votes, but the election is over now. We need further government support and assistance to get housing builds up within the city of Saint John, far more than they need assistance out there in KV. Saint John also needs a lot more support regarding infrastructure attention, recreational projects, and heritage projects... but a lot of that should be taken care of by the province, not the feds. I really hope we see more synergy between the province and federal government with Carney and Holt at the respective helms.

There is, however, one thing I worry about slightly with this newfound role for MP Long. Wayne Long was unquestionably good at securing federal funding for projects in Saint John, but will he still be able to focus on that with an increased workload? Thankfully, this does seem to be very much a junior ministership, and the heavy lifting will most likely be done by François-Philippe Champagne, who's an experience corporate lawyer that was already Carney's first pick for Minister of Finance before the election, and today was further promoted to take on a second file, Minister of Revenue. Still, this new role will undoubtedly take up a significant amount of time for Wayne, so I hope he can still do what he does as MP, and get Saint John federal funding.

Since Wayne's going to be working closely with basically the number two or three guy in charge of the government purse strings, who will be in very frequent contact with the PM... I think this promotion of Wayne Long's will end up boding very well for Saint John in terms of federal spending. But it's very much time for the province to start picking up the slack and give Saint John the funding and investment boost it deserves. The Holt Government still has a lot of work to do on the property tax reform front, and Saint John desperately needs more funding for investments in infrastructure, housing, recreation, and the economy... and considering New Brunswick's Minister for Housing is Wayne Long's political protege, and he posted this on his socials today, I think we might just see some big development projects on the housing front, such as massive investments in mid rise and high rise infill developments throughout the Central Peninsula, funded and built by private-public partnerships.



Here's hoping we really will see some big things to come from this news!

Here's hoping Wayne Long and David Hickey get Mark Carney and Susan Holt to make some BIG investments in Saint John.
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  #15943  
Old Posted May 15, 2025, 3:56 PM
adamuptownsj adamuptownsj is offline
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Foundation in for a smaller apartment building on Barker and Somerset (IIRC 10-unit). Last sold in 2021 for $45K.


https://imgur.com/a/s8KAZ4u
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  #15944  
Old Posted May 15, 2025, 7:49 PM
bingun bingun is offline
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Renders for 421 Woodward Avenue are out with next week's PAC. I don't think the few small homes nearby will be too pleased, but otherwise, I think this is a no-brainer. 170 units between the two buildings, with mostly two bedrooms and some one/three bedrooms.

https://pub-saintjohn.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=22037

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  #15945  
Old Posted May 15, 2025, 8:50 PM
sailor734 sailor734 is offline
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^ Who's the developer?
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  #15946  
Old Posted May 16, 2025, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bingun View Post
A draft 5-year capital investment plan (2026-2030) has been released from tomorrow's finance committee meeting. It will still be revised several times, but it will give you an idea of what they have planned. Lot of the usual stuff and several items related to the Canada Games Aquatic Centre.

https://pub-saintjohn.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=21926


A few highlights -
  • Reconstruction of Charlotte Street (Broad St to Vulcan St) - 2026
  • Courtney Bay Causeway (Design 2026 - Construction 2027)
  • Harbour Passage Extension (Riverview Drive) - 2026
  • Rockwood Park A Frame Replacement - 2026 - 2027
  • City Market Strategic Plan Implementation - 2026 - 2029
  • Roundabout at Gault Road and Manawagonish Road - 2027
  • Douglas Avenue Street Reconstruction - 2027
  • Roundabout at Loch Lomond and Airport Arterial - 2028
  • Installation of New Splash Pad East Side - 2028
  • Various Shamrock Park Improvements - 2029 - 2030
  • Roundabout at Rothesay Road/Ashburn Road - 2030
  • Harbourfront Site Redevelopment Sugar Refinery - 2030
Will be very interesting to see how the city proceeds with the Sugar Refinery site. I wonder if the city's plan for the site remains unchanged, or if they will be seeking a larger federal investment for a more extensive remediation/ land reclamation project.


The harbour-frontage is notably absent from their plans... does this mean the harbour front portion will be transferred to the Port? $10 million is a pretty big price tag for what might only be a partial remediation effort... I hope the city, province, the feds and port explore more extensive remediation and land reclamation efforts at this spot. A larger investment now will pay off dividends in the long run... especially for port related developments.
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  #15947  
Old Posted May 16, 2025, 12:31 AM
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+ Another thing that pops out at me on that list, is Riverview Drive.

I'm still astounded how much infrastructure attention Riverview Drive receives as a street with very, very few housing units. Riverview drive is the only place on the West Side with a pedestrian overpass across the throughway, and as far as i know, it's also the the only place on the West Side with an underpass beneath the throughway. Now it's trail system is getting a massive upgrade. Like, sure, it'll be a nice addition for cyclists on the West Side, but it's not like this trail doesn't already exist. Moreover, the bike ride between the West Side and Reversing Falls Bridge is already a very easy ride as is, with very little traffic until you get to the bridge itself.

I still think the far greater need is a direct pedestrian overpass between Fairville Plaza and the West Side... I still find it absolutely confounding that the Riverside Drive pedestrian overpass was ever considered a priority, when they already had the underpass at the bottom of the street and the spiral sidewalk at the top of the street. Maybe flood risk played into it, but regardless, there exists a far greater need to connect the rest of the West Side across the throughway with another pedestrian overpass. Not only would an overpass be a game changer for cycling across the throughway on the west side, it would especially promote pedestrianism, and fundamentally improve walkability on both side of the throughway.

I find it concerning the the city and province don't seem to consider a west side pedestrian overpass a priority in the slightest. The Harbour Passage is great, but I think West Siders care more about solutions to better connect the West Side across the throughway, than they are concerned with riding their bikes or walking all the way Uptown and back. I will sometimes ride my bike from the West Side to the Fariville shopping area and back, and it can really be quite a cluster@$#% once you cross the throughway at Bleury Street and make a left onto Fariville Blvd on a bicycle. It can be an even bigger gong show trying to ride a bike down the the sidewalk against the flow of traffic down Fairville boulevard, which is also totally illegal, unless you walk your bike down the hill... but many people do it. The left turn onto Fairville Boulevard can be absolutely ridiculous on a bicycle, but other than traversing Simms Corner, crossing at Bleury is really about the only legal way to cross throughway on a bike and get to the Fairville Boulevard shopping, but it's still quite a mess, because you're basically forced to ride your bike in the left lane all the way down Fairville Blvd until you get to Fariville Plaza. It's not for the faint of heart, or inexperienced cyclist.




The province already owns all of the land on both sides of the throughway that would be needed to build a pedestrian overpass between Fairville Plaza and Molson Ave. This would be a really good project for the DTI to fast track and try and complete before the Harbour Bridge construction finally concludes (if ever) lol.

I think better linking the West Side pedestrians and cyclists across the throughway should be a bigger priority than better linking West Siders to a very long and very indirect route between the West Side and Uptown on bicycle or on foot that already exists. I understand pedestrian overpasses cost a lot of money, but Molson Ave is the perfect place for DTI to build one, and would be well worth the investment to increase walkability on the West Side on both sides of the throughway. I hope the province can at least look at this spot and explore the possibility. It's without question that the throughway made the West Side fundamentally less walkable... investing in a pedestrian overpass would at least try and somewhat make up for that, more than half a century too late, but late is still better than never!

Last edited by EnvisionSaintJohn; Jan 13, 2026 at 11:19 AM.
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  #15948  
Old Posted May 16, 2025, 1:11 AM
bingun bingun is offline
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Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn View Post
Will be very interesting to see how the city proceeds with the Sugar Refinery site. I wonder if the city's plan for the site remains unchanged, or if they will be seeking a larger federal investment for a more extensive remediation/ land reclamation project.


The harbour-frontage is notably absent from their plans... does this mean the harbour front portion will be transferred to the Port? $10 million is a pretty big price tag for what might only be a partial remediation effort... I hope the city, province, the feds and port explore more extensive remediation and land reclamation efforts at this spot. A larger investment now will pay off dividends in the long run... especially for port related developments.
I don't think they have a concrete plan at this point; I think they want to include it in the capital budget as a long-term goal, hence the inclusion in 2030. Some additional funding from the province or federal government is likely required to fully realize its potential. I'd rather see the developments near Tin Can Beach and Fundy Quay happen first before we rush into the next area.

Some of my observations from the plan -

The Charlotte Street reconstruction between Broad and Vulcan is significant (over $10M). This is for a street that is barely used. The optimist in me hopes this will help encourage or support future development in that direction, but the realist in me realizes there are other motivations related to the storm sewer system.




An item I forgot to include is the King Square Trail Upgrade Project. I know Kings Square is an important landmark for Saint John, but I am not sure what $2M is going towards. Is there any more information on what is planned?


For Roundabouts, I believe the six originally planned were as follows -
  • Loch Lomond Road / Airport Arterial - Summer 2028
  • Ashburn Road / Rothesay Road - Summer 2030
  • Manawagonish Road / Gault Road - Summer 2027
  • Sandy Point Road / Foster Thurston Drive - Summer 2025
  • Millidge Avenue / Somerset Street
  • Simms Corner

It's no surprise that Simms Corner is put to one side for now, and I guess that means they think Millidge Avenue / Somerset Street is the least important.

Despite the urgency behind Simms Corner, there is nothing budgeted yet. I understand this makes sense given that the province's plan is unknown, but I don't imagine the city will be off the hook for funding completely.
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  #15949  
Old Posted May 16, 2025, 1:25 AM
bingun bingun is offline
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Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn View Post
+ Another thing that pops out at me on that list, is Riverview Drive.

I'm still astounded how much infrastructure attention Riverview Drive receives as a street with very, very few housing units. Riverview drive is the only place on the West Side with a pedestrian overpass across the throughway, and as far as i know, it's also the the only place on the West Side with an underpass beneath the throughway. Now it's trail system is getting a massive upgrade. Like, sure, it'll be a nice addition for cyclists on the West Side, but it's not like this trail doesn't already exist. Moreover, the bike ride between the West Side and Reversing Falls Bridge is already a very easy ride as is, with very little traffic until you get to the bridge itself.
That extension has been on the city's list for a long time. From my perspective, it's part of improving Reversing Falls and giving tourists more of an experience in the surrounding area and an accessible path to view the falls from, while also linking up Harbour Passage to the west side.

There are other items in the capital budget around viewpoints and trails for Reversing Falls, and I am generally supportive of this, as it's not in the best shape.
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  #15950  
Old Posted May 16, 2025, 2:02 PM
adamuptownsj adamuptownsj is offline
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Charlotte from Lower Cove to Vulcan could be related to Lafford, storm sewers, and Tin Can Beach simultaneously.
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  #15951  
Old Posted May 16, 2025, 5:53 PM
darkharbour darkharbour is offline
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Charlotte from Lower Cove to Vulcan could be related to Lafford, storm sewers, and Tin Can Beach simultaneously.
I work near this block and I can also say that the whole road and its infrastructure probably need to be raised as well, which would add to the cost. Especially from Broadview to Vulcan, Charlotte is basically lower than the port lands next to it and fill with water during rain, a problem that will only get worse in the future. The infrastructure also extends into the Port owned lands of Lower cove to the West of the street, so if they have to run new pipes to the water's edge that would up the cost massively.

Basically my point is that the conditions of rebuilding that street are quite different than a typical project, so I'm sure the higher costs have something to do with that.
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  #15952  
Old Posted May 16, 2025, 8:26 PM
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A few pictures from the North End today. If anyone has any picture requests in the city, let me know.

New McDonald's (Millidge Ave/University Ave)



New North End School (Ropewalk Road)



Centre For Youth Care (Thornbrough St)

Apparently coming summer 2025, I think that might be ambitious.

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  #15953  
Old Posted May 17, 2025, 5:36 PM
DyAm00394 DyAm00394 is online now
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This letter was shared on the "Save Lorneville" Facebook group regarding the proposed Spruce Lake Industrial Park expansion:

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  #15954  
Old Posted May 18, 2025, 1:22 AM
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They were never aware of any of this until yesterday (May 16, 2025)?

There has been a long and very apparently on-going discussion that has been made very public. They should have addressed their concerns "to whom it may concern" way before May 16th. And definitely not to facebook.

Facebook is no different than any other S-M website. It is set up to collect personal information and distribute advertising. It will promote anything controversial because that forwards their goals as stated above. Those are just some of the reasons I personally dumped it years ago.

At this point in this project, I look at this as delay tactics, or worse. Anybody that has any even vague concerns as what is alluded to in that document would have been on top of the list to present their case way before yesterday. Maybe they just realized there are multi-billions of dollars at stake.

They addressed no specifics. They didn't mention anything addressed in the multitude of documents and meetings and discussions to date. They provided no evidence that they live or even very regularly visit the area. They certainly don't seem to interact with the local residents. They didn't mention it if they do.

They don't seem to notice that the area has been maintained and upgraded by the governments in charge for multiple decades. The costs of those services have been carried by taxpaying residents way beyond the limits of Lorneville and even Saint John. They don't discuss or even acknowledge the amendments that have been made in regard of citizen concerns. They don't address the costs of now and in the future of just turning this all back to nature. That of course would mean a total abandonment of any residential habitation.

They don't acknowledge that this land land has been held and maintained for just this opportunity which is just now, finally, presenting itself. Anybody this late in the game just pulling up a chair does not have any ongoing interest and they just proved it.
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  #15955  
Old Posted May 18, 2025, 12:34 PM
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Happy 240th birthday to Canada's oldest incorporated city, Saint John! Founded on May 18th, 1785.
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  #15956  
Old Posted May 18, 2025, 12:44 PM
sailor734 sailor734 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ottawa View Post
They were never aware of any of this until yesterday (May 16, 2025)?

There has been a long and very apparently on-going discussion that has been made very public. They should have addressed their concerns "to whom it may concern" way before May 16th. And definitely not to facebook.

Facebook is no different than any other S-M website. It is set up to collect personal information and distribute advertising. It will promote anything controversial because that forwards their goals as stated above. Those are just some of the reasons I personally dumped it years ago.

At this point in this project, I look at this as delay tactics, or worse. Anybody that has any even vague concerns as what is alluded to in that document would have been on top of the list to present their case way before yesterday. Maybe they just realized there are multi-billions of dollars at stake.

They addressed no specifics. They didn't mention anything addressed in the multitude of documents and meetings and discussions to date. They provided no evidence that they live or even very regularly visit the area. They certainly don't seem to interact with the local residents. They didn't mention it if they do.

They don't seem to notice that the area has been maintained and upgraded by the governments in charge for multiple decades. The costs of those services have been carried by taxpaying residents way beyond the limits of Lorneville and even Saint John. They don't discuss or even acknowledge the amendments that have been made in regard of citizen concerns. They don't address the costs of now and in the future of just turning this all back to nature. That of course would mean a total abandonment of any residential habitation.

They don't acknowledge that this land land has been held and maintained for just this opportunity which is just now, finally, presenting itself. Anybody this late in the game just pulling up a chair does not have any ongoing interest and they just proved it.
Note that this guy styles himself a "TRADITIONAL Grand Chief" and not an elected chief......so not officially speaking for any recognized first nation.
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  #15957  
Old Posted May 18, 2025, 1:59 PM
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Note that this guy styles himself a "TRADITIONAL Grand Chief" and not an elected chief......so not officially speaking for any recognized first nation.
Yes, well, TRADITIONAL Grand Chiefs out west have caused problems for pipeline construction through BC. They sometimes are at odds with the elected First Nations representatives, but, they attract their own environmentalist constituency and can still cause trouble. They are rogue agents that claim ancient hereditable authority (albeit democratically illegitimate). The media loves them..........
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  #15958  
Old Posted May 18, 2025, 6:32 PM
adamuptownsj adamuptownsj is offline
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Are we not going to comment on the Comic Sans usage?
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  #15959  
Old Posted May 18, 2025, 6:38 PM
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Are we not going to comment on the Comic Sans usage?
Only if you don't want to leave any red meat on that bone.
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  #15960  
Old Posted May 18, 2025, 8:09 PM
darkharbour darkharbour is offline
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I have spent a decent amount of time working in the environmental space, and my issue with the way that some of the activism has handled the Lorneville zoning is that they are going hard on this initial application, which is only a rezoning, with no specific industrial proposal associated with it.

The issue will be when/if there is a large specific proposal in the future, there won't be as much credibility or stomach for it, because of the fatigue on the part of the citizens and the general public. It's a bit like the boy who cried wolf, because right now you are playing by the alarmist playbook, without even knowing what might end up being built there. It might be a fulfillment centre or a warehouse, it might be built around existing watercourses and wetlands, we don't know the parameters of the development yet because this is just a rezoning.

I applaud both the community for pushing for concessions, and also the city for making meaningful modifications to the proposal in response to community opposition, it's been nice to see them continue to engage and be willing to incorporate changes rather than digging in their heels.
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