ATLANTA | Development Thread V - Page 796

Atlanta3000 · #**15901** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 9:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

It is what it is. Walkability is important but it's too late for that area. I can walk to half a dozen restaurants from my home in the time it would take to cross a typical Cumberland street. Cobb Parkway is as wide as half a city block. The 75/285 interchange is literally the size of Midtown:

It pains me to say it but there's no reason for that development to address the street. There aren't enough pedestrians for that now and there likely never will be. That's not because of a lack of street-front retail options, but because the infrastructure was built at such an enormous scale that walking is a last resort. Urban islands are as much as that area can hope for.

RocketSurgeon, Thanks for introducing some logic into this discussion.

I support RocketSurgeon's and Scania's position. The facts are: Turner Field was built 18 years ago and the GA Dome 24 years. Both built in downtown Atlanta and in areas that could accommodate auxiliary mixed-use developments and could support vibrant neighborhoods. Yet both are asphalt graveyards after 2+ DECADES and are on the absolute furthest end of the spectrum from having active mixed-use developments or vibrant neighborhoods. And people on here critique the new SunTrust Park's design, walkability and context to surrounding neighborhoods. Sorry but I don't get it....

Frankster87 · #**15902** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 1:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

RocketSurgeon, Thanks for introducing some logic into this discussion.

I support RocketSurgeon's and Scania's position. The facts are: Turner Field was built 18 years ago and the GA Dome 24 years. Both built in downtown Atlanta and in areas that could accommodate auxiliary mixed-use developments and could support vibrant neighborhoods. Yet both are asphalt graveyards after 2+ DECADES and are on the absolute furthest end of the spectrum from having active mixed-use developments or vibrant neighborhoods. And people on here critique the new SunTrust Park's design, walkability and context to surrounding neighborhoods. Sorry but I don't get it....

To be fair, these stadiums were built in a time when mixed-use was not all the craze that it is today. Just look at the difference of residential towers going up now, compared to the ones that went up circa 18 years ago.

I'm sure if Turner Field were being built today, it would certainly look different than the one built 18 years ago. That includes how the stadium would address the street and its surroundings. Also, the area around Turner Field, isn't quite "there" yet. In time, this area will become desirable, much how 04W was at one time a no man's land and is now one of the hottest neighborhoods.

I can't really vouch for the dome, since football stadiums are traditionally more suburban than baseball stadiums, imho. I do hope that they pull off something great with the new Falcons stadium though, and are more inclusive of the surrounding areas.

Atlanta3000 · #**15903** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 2:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frankster87

To be fair, these stadiums were built in a time when mixed-use was not all the craze that it is today. Just look at the difference of residential towers going up now, compared to the ones that went up circa 18 years ago.

I'm sure if Turner Field were being built today, it would certainly look different than the one built 18 years ago. That includes how the stadium would address the street and its surroundings. Also, the area around Turner Field, isn't quite "there" yet. In time, this area will become desirable, much how 04W was at one time a no man's land and is now one of the hottest neighborhoods.

I can't really vouch for the dome, since football stadiums are traditionally more suburban than baseball stadiums, imho. I do hope that they pull off something great with the new Falcons stadium though, and are more inclusive of the surrounding areas.

Nothing prevented the city or private developers from building mixed-use developments on the parking lots by Turner Field or the GA Dome (over the past 20 years) other than market forces.

arjay57 · #**15904** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 2:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Nothing prevented the city or private developers from building mixed-use developments on the parking lots by Turner Field or the GA Dome (over the past 20 years) other than market forces.

I am not sure about the Dome area but I am thinking the Atlanta Fulton County Recreation Authority may have control over the land around Turner Field. Wasn't their unwillingness to let the Braves redevelop it one of the big bones of contention leading up to the Cobb relocation?

http://www.afcra.com/turner_field.php

Martinman · #**15905** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 2:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

It is what it is. Walkability is important but it's too late for that area. I can walk to half a dozen restaurants from my home in the time it would take to cross a typical Cumberland street. Cobb Parkway is as wide as half a city block. The 75/285 interchange is literally the size of Midtown:

It pains me to say it but there's no reason for that development to address the street. There aren't enough pedestrians for that now and there likely never will be. That's not because of a lack of street-front retail options, but because the infrastructure was built at such an enormous scale that walking is a last resort. Urban islands are as much as that area can hope for.

You're exactly right that "it is what it is". And that is precisely the point. It doesn't matter how wonderful the renderings may look it is an insular, open-air mall/faux urban street. And for those that prefer an urban form, which is clearly the majority of posters on this forum, just don't expect a lot of excitement for this kind of development. They could build a replica of Michigan Avenue within the development and it still be the same.

tommyten09top · #**15906** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 2:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by arjay57

I am not sure about the Dome area but I am thinking the Atlanta Fulton County Recreation Authority may have control over the land around Turner Field. Wasn't their unwillingness to let the Braves redevelop it one of the big bones of contention leading up to the Cobb relocation?

http://www.afcra.com/turner_field.php

Yes, that is one of the issues. Around the Braves, there are many. This issue is off-topic for this forum though. With that being said, I saved an article a while ago from Atlanta Magazine that showed how the lust for parking revenue, among other things, contributed to the area around Turner Field remaining a development wasteland.

http://atlanta.prod.emmispublishing.com/features/turner-field-development/

It also is worth mentioning that the demographics around Fenway and Wrigley are far different from those around Turner Field. The neighborhood around the Ted is one of the poorest around. Developers aren't exactly chomping at the bit to develop given the low potential for returns in that area, either. t is a little bit of the chicken or the egg thing going on, but to the degree that Georgians depend on our cars, there is not much we can do to change this.

Verge · #**15907** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 2:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Nothing prevented the city or private developers from building mixed-use developments on the parking lots by Turner Field or the GA Dome (over the past 20 years) other than market forces.

Actually the land is owned and controlled by the Atlanta-Fulton County Recreation Authority. They pretty much let the area grow fallow while planning for mixed-use that they never really supported-- This is one reason that the Braves grew impatient and jumped when Cobb county offered them 400M+. The truth is former downtown parking lots in many major league cities have become vibrant mixed-use areas that connect to their surrounding streetscapes and there's no reason to think that it could not have happened around Turner Field (FYI-- The Braves basically wanted the FCRA to give them public land to build Bravesland).

As for Cobb building insular development and then saying oh my goodness, look how disconnected everything is now, it will never change-- Its a little disingenuous. Much of the county is disposable suburban strip centers which will be redeveloped in the next 10-20 years-- We need not make the same mistakes twice, just because we have no vision for what it can be in the near future.

jpk1292000 · #**15908** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 2:36 PM**

The number of cranes in Midtown right now is amazing.

Does someone have the latest list of active projects?

forj · #**15909** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 2:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by arjay57

I am not sure about the Dome area but I am thinking the Atlanta Fulton County Recreation Authority may have control over the land around Turner Field. Wasn't their unwillingness to let the Braves redevelop it one of the big bones of contention leading up to the Cobb relocation?

http://www.afcra.com/turner_field.php

If i remember correctly, the main reason it wasnt developed by the Braves, who wanted to develop the area surrounding Turner Field, was because the Braves ( Liberty Media ) wanted full control over the ownership of those assets, meaning they would decide what goes in and they would collect all revenue. Which, isnt the way it worked because as you stated the land is owned by the city and there was no way the city was going to give the Braves full control over all of that. I wish the city would have worked with private developers to do something with the parking lots around turner, but at the same time i think they were unable to do so because of the way the contracts were written with the Braves. So the city and the Braves just argued and held eachother hostage on the redevelopment of the land around turner and thus nothing happened with it, sadly. I hope that the city sells the land to Ga State once the Braves move out and that they expand their campus, build out their own baseball field and add residential and mixed use to the area. to me it is the best option for the space. of course they should work with the neighborhoods as well and help them out - i believe a grocery store, some mixed use with retail and non-student residential, and park space, in addition to the campus developments, would be the ideal scenario and is most likely what we will end up seeing play out

RATBOYKEV · #**15910** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 2:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpk1292000

The number of cranes in Midtown right now is amazing.

Does someone have the latest list of active projects?

Google Docs sheet with Midtown projects

arctk2014 · #**15911** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 3:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Nothing prevented the city or private developers from building mixed-use developments on the parking lots by Turner Field or the GA Dome (over the past 20 years) other than market forces.

The Braves and the Atlanta Fulton County Recreation Authority basically held the current site hostage because one wanted total control and the other knew that they couldn't just hand over public lands to a "private" entity (Liberty Media) like that. There were a lot more things at play here if you look back at the history of both stadiums.

micropundit · #**15912** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 3:19 PM**

Cousins Properties has taken the next step forward in the NCR Corp Midtown office tower. The Atlanta developer filed permits with the City of Atlanta to erect the 533k SF office tower that will include more than 1,000 parking spaces. Called "Spring @ 8" in the permits, the $200M, 22-story tower is expected to break ground by December.

https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/mixed-use/cuz-seeks-ncr-permit-for-midtown-51140?rt=title

scania · #**15913** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 3:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

With your derogatory remarks and huge generalization of 'Southerners' not meeting your alleged sophisticated 'standards,' I feel that you are the one that really needs to move.

You obviously are a bad match here, and there are literally flights back and forth to LAX all day every hour or so, every day. Do us all a favor and just commute if you have to be here.

Your arrogance and ignorance regarding Atlanta and the South is over the top, in my opinion - and has been for a long time.

LOL, some of you are hilarious...it doesn't matter what most people on this forum think. One of the reasons for a forum is to have different opinions and insight. This aids a wise person into growing and having a more open-mind to all types of topics. But I'm not ignorant...very seldom do I ever make a statement without facts/experiences.

scania · #**15914** Posted **Oct 16, 2015, 3:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

RocketSurgeon, Thanks for introducing some logic into this discussion.

I support RocketSurgeon's and Scania's position. The facts are: Turner Field was built 18 years ago and the GA Dome 24 years. Both built in downtown Atlanta and in areas that could accommodate auxiliary mixed-use developments and could support vibrant neighborhoods. Yet both are asphalt graveyards after 2+ DECADES and are on the absolute furthest end of the spectrum from having active mixed-use developments or vibrant neighborhoods. And people on here critique the new SunTrust Park's design, walkability and context to surrounding neighborhoods. Sorry but I don't get it....

Totally agree. I think we all should support things in and out of the city. I've aid this before, that we should keep in mind that the prosperity of a lot businesses in the urban core would not thrive if it wasn't from our neighbors in the suburbs. This is another reason that will keep developers investing in Midtown/Buckhead, and the city at-large.