Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Migrant_Coconut]

When Orpheum workers get attacked every time they leave the theatre, then we can call ourselves "less safe" than other cities - for New Yorkers or Parisians or Edokko, it's wrong and intolerable, but nevertheless a "normal" random occurrence, and they don't have to complain loudly about it and call for martial law on every forum they use because no city has this (but of course, they do). The clickbait sites count on that kind of outrage to attract gullible internet users and generate ad revenue, and so they'll naturally try to hype up the situation to make it look worse than it is.

For example, unlike those cities, nobody in Vancouver's ever pushed somebody in front of a SkyTrain. I guess then Vancouver is more safe than Tokyo.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

When Orpheum workers get attacked every time they leave the theatre, then we can call ourselves "less safe" than other cities - for New Yorkers or Parisians or Edokko, it's wrong and intolerable, but nevertheless a "normal" random occurrence, and they don't have to complain loudly about it and call for martial law on every forum they use because no city has this (but of course, they do). The clickbait sites count on that kind of outrage to attract gullible internet users and generate ad revenue, and so they'll naturally try to hype up the situation to make it look worse than it is.

For example, unlike those cities, nobody in Vancouver's ever pushed somebody in front of a SkyTrain. I guess then Vancouver is more safe than Tokyo.

I guess we are as safe as Tokyo now then?

Police believe man who pushed woman into path of SkyTrain was acting in self-defence after trying to break up fight
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/police-believe-man...after-trying-to-break-up-fight-1.5038063

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

When all one's sources are VanCity Buzz articles and Youtube videos, maybe it's not a good idea to call other people's stats fake.

VanCity Buzz article and Youtibe videos? Grow a pair of eyes please.

Originally Posted by Vin

Regarding Drug Use and Deaths, this is a good reference document:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/birth-...ers-service/statistical/illicit-drug.pdf

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Look at the data you posted. Northern Health had a higher Illicit Drug Toxicity Death Rate in 2020, 2021, and so far in 2022. This year both the Interior and Island Health have death rates that are almost as high as Coastal Health (that includes Vancouver and the DTES). If most people, or even a lot of people, were dying in the DTES, it would have a much higher death rate than those other parts of BC.

To quote the CBC piece: "It's true that the largest number of toxic drug deaths happen in Vancouver, but every corner of the province is seeing people die from drug poisoning: the Thompson Cariboo, Northwest, Northern Interior and Fraser East regions saw some of the highest death rates in 2021." More people died in small communities - so small they get labelled as 'other townships' - in 2019, 2020, 2021 and so far this year than in Vancouver.

To quote the Chief Coroner: "There are people who are really disadvantaged and vulnerable on the Downtown Eastside who die, but there are people in suburban neighbourhoods who die just as often. There are people in rural communities, small communities, people from all walks of life — we see those people as coroners. Of course, because of the stigma, families don’t want to share that their loved one died as a result of drug use. What we really need people to understand is this can happen to anybody and we’re all vulnerable."

No deaths have been reported at supervised consumption or drug overdose prevention sites.

Remind me, your round up of 'addicts' - does it include all the sports writers, actors, and 12-year-olds?

Fun to see that you are highlighting this problem as a BC problem, and targeting the northern areas with small populations, knowing full well that a large number of addicts overdose and die in a large population centre like Vancouver, notably the DTES, and its surroundings. Isn't this thread about Vancouver's liveability? Imagine if the entire city turns into something like DTES, would we still call this city liveable? Honest answer from you, please.

And of course nobody dies at a drug prevention site, but imagine putting this facility at every corner of the city and province for easy accessibility, who's going to pay for it: you? If you are willing to give all your money for this unsustainable cause, then go for it! You and your cohorts are prescribing a "solution" that will bankrupt an entire nation, but please don't drag everyone else down with this absurd idea.

Spike in BC overdose deaths each month after income assistance's "cheque day": coroner
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-cheque-day-income-assistance-overdose-deaths-statistics
With the latest figures, between 2012 and June 2022, there have now been 11,670 deaths across BC related to the overdose crisis. Vancouver’s tally each year typically accounts for between roughly one-quarter and one-third of the overall provincial toll, with 24% of 2022’s deaths to date recorded within the city.

1/4 to 1/3 of the provincial toll for Vancouver still isn't large or embarrassing enough for you I reckon? Maybe 1/2 or 3/4 will?

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

When all one's sources are VanCity Buzz articles and Youtube videos, maybe it's not a good idea to call other people's stats fake.

Maybe you can show better numbers instead of babbling at the peripherals? Changing_City did use misleading information from Toronto, and I did prove him wrong.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Maybe you can show better numbers instead of babbling at the peripherals? Changing_City did use misleading information from Toronto, and I did prove him wrong.

No you didn't, that's not true at all. Migrant spotted the number for homelessness in Vancouver used in the Toronto article looked a bit low at 9 per 10,000. I agreed with him. We each, independently calculated it accurately at 14 per 10,000. It didn't change Vancouver's position on the graphic, nearly at the bottom, with far fewer homeless per 10,000 people than New York, LA, Seattle, San Francisco, Washington DC, way less than Toronto, and slightly less than Calgary, Winnipeg, and Edmonton.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

I guess we are as safe as Tokyo now then?

Originally Posted by Vin

VanCity Buzz article and Youtibe videos? Grow a pair of eyes please.

Accidental; he was trying to break up a fight. We're not a big city until somebody pushes somebody into a SkyTrain deliberately. Paris has them, London has them, Beijing has them, why don't we?

Congratulations, you've finally learned how to find official reports instead of parroting whatever the Glacier Media hacks tell you - keep it up.
Oh, and your document says the average drug death rate is going down this year, but in northern BC it's going up, so CC is correct. If it's killing elementary school kids in Langford and columnists in Maple Ridge, it's more than just a DTES problem.

Originally Posted by Vin

1/4 to 1/3 of the provincial toll for Vancouver still isn't large or embarrassing enough for you I reckon? Maybe 1/2 or 3/4 will?

Maybe you can show better numbers instead of babbling at the peripherals? Changing_City did use misleading information from Toronto, and I did prove him wrong.

One would fully expect to see the same ratio for Seattle and WA, or Toronto and ON. Hazard of being a province or state's biggest city.

Misleading numbers that they and I corrected in the same day. Maybe you could show better numbers that have us at the highest homeless count per capita? 15 per 10,000 still makes us one of the lowest - you've disproved nothing.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

And of course nobody dies at a drug prevention site, but imagine putting this facility at every corner of the city and province for easy accessibility, who's going to pay for it: you? If you are willing to give all your money for this unsustainable cause, then go for it! You and your cohorts are prescribing a "solution" that will bankrupt an entire nation, but please don't drag everyone else down with this absurd idea.

1/4 to 1/3 of the provincial toll for Vancouver still isn't large or embarrassing enough for you I reckon? Maybe 1/2 or 3/4 will?

Numbers not your strength, I see. Or Daily Hive either, it would seem. That statistical report you provided the link to shows the Vancouver Health Service Delivery Area (which includes UBC) has an average of 25% of the total illicit drug deaths over the last 10 years, generally around 25% but below that level in the past three years. It's never been as high as 28% - so not a third. (p15).

And on p18 it shows the Illicit Drug Toxicity Death Rates by Local Health Area, and in the first 4 months of this year Lillooet, Mission, Terrace, Cariboo/Chilcotin, Powell River, Merritt, Alberni/Clayoquot, Cowichan Valley West, Prince George, Agassiz/Harrison, Kamloops and Penticton all have higher death rates than Vancouver (even though we have the DTES).

Of course we don't need a safe consumption site on every corner of the city - but we probably need more services than we have now. There are two locations in Abbotsford, but none in Mission, for example. Abbotsford has a slightly lower death rate than Vancouver, but Mission has a rate 50% higher than Vancouver. Mission only has 41,000 people living there, but 18 of them died in the first four months of the year from using illicit drugs. If a safe consumption site to save lives is too expensive, or contentious, a safe supply of drugs for addicts, and the availability of a drug testing service (so recreational users know what they're using) would save lives.

Guy Felicella, who you don't agree with about a safe drug supply, even though he's lived through addiction, would have died if he hadn't been in Insite when he overdosed on heroin. In fact, he ODd twice in the same day. He was only able to become the contributing member of society that he is today because of Vancouver having a safe consumption site.

[hollywoodnorth]

Hobo Boat (aka HoBoat) stand off the other day in False Creek >> https://vancouver.citynews.ca/video/2022...-long-standoff-on-a-boat-in-false-creek/

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

Hobo Boat (aka HoBoat) stand off the other day in False Creek >> https://vancouver.citynews.ca/video/2022...-long-standoff-on-a-boat-in-false-creek/

It was a rather underwhelming takedown I was cycling by and decided to take advantage of a front row seat.

I think it attracted media attention because you rarely see So Many Cops for one person and the whole thing was super-awkward with the boat tied off to the railings around Science World.

I would have just slashed the mooring lines but I imagine the VPD operates under some restraints re: damaging private property and there were a lot of other boats moored nearby.

[Vin]

Anyone surprised Vancouver isn't anywhere near the top? We used to be number 1 for so many consecutive years. As some of the forumers would say,"that's OK, we're still safe!"

This BC City Was Ranked As One Of The 'Best Metropolitan Areas' In Canada & It Beat Toronto
https://www.narcity.com/vancouver/bc-cit...opolitan-areas-in-canada-it-beat-toronto

And no, it's not Vancouver.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Aaand we're back to the usual scaremongering... that didn't take long. Since Victoria's got more violent crime than we do, their #3 status is clearly not because of safety - Ottawa has the most homeless in Canada, and it's #1. The website itself says Victoria ranks higher due to more affordable housing, more citizens involved in volunteer nature groups, and a smaller wage gap.

Or, since North Korea once placed #1 on the Happiness Index (the unhappy ones were presumably "unavailable for comment"), maybe these kinds of metrics and opinion polls should be taken with a few grains of salt and not used as "facts."

[chowhou]

This like when the car lobby brings out the TomTom congestion index to "prove" that Vancouver is the most congested city in North America when it ignores minor factors such as commute time. At least the TomTom congestion index is technically based on real data. What the hell is the methodology going on in this "ranking"?

Equality

Compares annual pay gap between genders

Environment

Looks at percent of population that engaged, without pay, in activities aimed at conservation or protection of the environment or wildlife

Now I love women and environmentalism, but when Calgary is getting 1.00 points for equality while Saskatoon is getting 10.00, and Vancouver is getting 6.56 for environment while Hamilton is getting 8.94, and these are both metrics equally weighted with housing affordability, crime, and income, it makes you wonder what the hell this is supposed to be a measure of.

[WarrenC12]

I hope we continue to fall down the rankings and less people move here so we can regain some sanity in our housing market, and more competition for employers to find good people (bidding up wages).

I'm not leaving though.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Anyone surprised Vancouver isn't anywhere near the top? We used to be number 1 for so many consecutive years. As some of the forumers would say,"that's OK, we're still safe!"

This BC City Was Ranked As One Of The 'Best Metropolitan Areas' In Canada & It Beat Toronto
https://www.narcity.com/vancouver/bc-cit...opolitan-areas-in-canada-it-beat-toronto

And no, it's not Vancouver.

Strange that you would be drawn to that article in Narcity (where I assume the 'nar' is short for 'narcissist' as their preferred sources seem to be Reddit and Youtube) and not the one from a couple of months ago Vancouver Was Named One Of The World's Most Liveable Cities where it was the only Canadian city in the list in the Monocle world listing, and higher than in 2021.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Strange that you would be drawn to that article in Narcity (where I assume the 'nar' is short for 'narcissist' as their preferred sources seem to be Reddit and Youtube) and not the one from a couple of months ago Vancouver Was Named One Of The World's Most Liveable Cities where it was the only Canadian city in the list in the Monocle world listing, and higher than in 2021.

It does not matter where or by whom the data is compiled: most important thing is that Vancouver used to be featured either on top or top 3 for many publications and survey. That's a thing of the past, and most who have eyes opened can see why.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I hope we continue to fall down the rankings and less people move here so we can regain some sanity in our housing market, and more competition for employers to find good people (bidding up wages).

I'm not leaving though.

It's your prerogative to think what you want, but that's how civilization on the decline is like. Can't compete? Might as well give up and turn into a turtle. Do note that despite a lack of foreign buyers joining the property market, as well as a sharp decrease of people moving to Vancouver (not so much other parts of BC) for the last 3 pandemic years, property prices continued to increase, but only starting to slow down recently when borrowing rates start going up. Truth be told, domestic policies, including those holding back the supply of residential properties, are mostly to blame for the unaffordability issues here.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Clearly this means we should re-elect Gregor Robertson, because we were only #1 when Vision was in charge. /s

Alternatively, we can realize that maybe we shouldn't care what a bunch of 0.1 percent investors think about Vancouver, because they're only chasing money and don't care about what's best for the city itself.

[Vin]

Welcome to Vancouver......

"Stabbed while walking": Three stranger assaults took place in under three hours in Vancouver last night
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/trio-stranger-assaults-vancouver
One woman was stabbed, another woman was punched, and a senior was tackled to the ground and kicked.

It looks like we have a zombie on the loose.....

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Clearly this means we should re-elect Gregor Robertson, because we were only #1 when Vision was in charge. /s

Alternatively, we can realize that maybe we shouldn't care what a bunch of 0.1 percenters think about our city and just do what's best for us.

No, his policies are some of the reasons why we end up in what we are today. It's like Trump trying to steal Obama's glory after the US economy recovered during Trump's tenure, after being devastated by George Bush in 2008.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Vin

It does not matter where or by whom the data is compiled: most important thing is that Vancouver used to be featured either on top or top 3 for many publications and survey. That's a thing of the past, and most who have eyes opened can see why.

I actually compiled my own ranking of best cities in Canada today

# of letter u's
Vancouver 1
Quebec 1
Mississauga 1
Surrey 1
Toronto 0
Montreal 0
Calgary 0
Edmonton 0
Saskatoon 0
Halifax 0
Winnipeg 0
Kelowna 0
Hamilton 0
Brampton 0
Victoria 0

# of accessible oceans by ship?
Vancouver 1
Quebec 1
Mississauga 1
Surrey 1
Toronto 1
Montreal 1
Halifax 1
Hamilton 1
Victoria 1
Calgary 0
Edmonton 0
Saskatoon 0
Winnipeg 0
Kelowna 0
Brampton 0

# of Santouka's
Vancouver 2
Toronto 2
Quebec 0
Mississauga 0
Surrey 0
Montreal 0
Calgary 0
Edmonton 0
Saskatoon 0
Halifax 0
Winnipeg 0
Kelowna 0
Hamilton 0
Brampton 0
Victoria 0

Total:
1. Vancouver 4
2. Toronto 3
3. Quebec + Mississauga + Surrey 2
4. Victoria + Hamilton + Montreal + Halifax 1
5. Calgary + Edmonton + Saskatoon + Winnipeg + Brampton + Kelowna 0

Once again Vancouver is #1, this is a scientific study, it doesn't matter that I compiled the data, it's correct!

/s because I have to do this otherwise people take me seriously

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

No, his policies are some of the reasons why we end up in what we are today. It's like Trump trying to steal Obama's glory after the US economy recovered during Trump's tenure, after being devastated by George Bush in 2008.

You missed the /s. And it's hardly Sam Sullivan, Larry Campbell or Philip Owen who can take credit for the massive influx of foreign owners (the audience the "Most Livable" lists are geared to) wanting to buy empty condos and sit on them like stocks.

Originally Posted by chowhou

I actually compiled my own ranking of best cities in Canada today...

... Total:
1. Vancouver 4
2. Toronto 3
3. Quebec + Mississauga + Surrey 2
4. Victoria + Hamilton + Montreal + Halifax 1
5. Calgary + Edmonton + Saskatoon + Winnipeg + Brampton + Kelowna 0

Once again Vancouver is #1, this is a scientific study, it doesn't matter that I compiled the data, it's correct!

/s because I have to do this otherwise people take me seriously

It must be legit. Why else would it be on the internet?