Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

I certainly expect a design change before review/ground breaking. It will likely lose 30-100 feet in height, become a bit boxier somehow, and will no doubt look even more thrown together and cheap. That’s the Utah way.

Yep that is what I expect as well. We are scared of pushing the limits in SLC. Wish we were more like Austin or Calgary. And before we get into long winded arguments of why those cities are different and SLC can’t match their new building heights, I’m just using those two as examples of cities of similar metro populations that have taller more interesting buildings going up

[zurich]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

Yep that is what I expect as well. We are scared of pushing the limits in SLC. Wish we were more like Austin or Calgary. And before we get into long winded arguments of why those cities are different and SLC can’t match their new building heights, I’m just using those two as examples of cities of similar metro populations that have taller more interesting buildings going up

I think many of us wonder the same thing. SLC has so much potential. I was just there and I am no expert, but downtown from about 600 S seems a bit sketchy. Austin has south congress, zilker park, the river, the hike and bike trail and TONS of jobs - Google, Facebook, Oracle are all downtown. Plus they have 1000X the condos and apartments and a lot of this contributes to the desire to build taller. SLC also needs a huge downtown park and I see large empty blocks where one could be added. Companies need to move downtown, we need to build condo's, we need a large gathering place/park, we need to use the massively wide roads, integrate outdoor seating....etc. Hoping for a vibrant downtown, but I don't seen any big catalyst and I don't read any stories about their desire to change downtown. I could be wrong...

[freeshavocado]

Originally Posted by zurich

I think many of us wonder the same thing. SLC has so much potential. I was just there and I am no expert, but downtown from about 600 S seems a bit sketchy. Austin has south congress, zilker park, the river, the hike and bike trail and TONS of jobs - Google, Facebook, Oracle are all downtown. Plus they have 1000X the condos and apartments and a lot of this contributes to the desire to build taller. SLC also needs a huge downtown park and I see large empty blocks where one could be added. Companies need to move downtown, we need to build condo's, we need a large gathering place/park, we need to use the massively wide roads, integrate outdoor seating....etc. Hoping for a vibrant downtown, but I don't seen any big catalyst and I don't read any stories about their desire to change downtown. I could be wrong...

Yes, the area between 600 S and 900 S feels sketch, but 900 S is developing into a more vibrant part of town.. especially near 200 W and also east of State Street. I agree if we had some big companies downtown the area between 600 S and 900 S would fill in much more quickly, and we'd start building taller--I hate that suburban Draper/Lehi is still the epicenter for big tech companies. I guess cheap leases trump easy access to a diverse and talented downtown workforce. In terms of parks, downtown has Pioneer Park, which is a little under-utilized IMO. But I'd say the main gathering place is Library Square / Washington Square, a large two-block area that hosts most festivals downtown. And I agree we could use another couple parks in the downtown / central city area, though I'd say downtown SLC is unique in having so many trails in the immediately adjacent foothills and in city creek canyon. I agree our huge roads and sidewalks need to be better utilized as gathering spaces. Our wide sidewalks could basically be city-spanning parks.

[delts145]

Actually, Salt Lake City as an interconnected Wasatch Front is much larger than cities such as Calgary, Nashville, or even Austin. When I say interconnected I mean there's a good chance your neighbor across the street is in a different metro than you yourself. Forget about having to travel through 20 or 30 miles of agriculture to access another town.

The greater Wasatch Front is developing in much the same way as Los Angeles in the past, albeit on a smaller scale. However, just the same the Wasatch Front will most likely continue to expand and easily reach a population of 5 or more million people. Until recently in perspective of it size, Downtown Los Angeles was never that impressive of a skyline. Over the last 20 to 30 years it has become one of the more attractive skylines on the continent. Even in the past 10 years, a large portion of its downtown perimeter has expanded dramatically. This while other cores such as Century City, Hollywood, Long Beach etc. are also experiencing dramatic denser skyline expansion. While Salt Lake City's CSA shares many of the same topographical characteristics of its bigger cousin it has the benefit of learning from LA.'s mistakes and is pursuing transportation infrastructure that L.A. can only wish they had pursued much earlier before it became outrageously expensive.

Atlas made an excellent point a few months ago over on the Comp. Thread when asked by an out-of-town forumer about Salt Lake's current boom. In short, the comment was Salt Lake City in some ways is playing a game of catch-up. This is particularly apparent in the infill and height of its downtown area. Astra is but the first of what will be an ever taller denser residential downtown. For those of us that have been active on the forum for 10, 15, or more years it's perhaps easier to see how much certain types of development are gaining an ever-faster momentum. Even now the Wasatch Front is gaining an impressive amount of new in-migration and native growth because of its comparative steller job market. All of these people need a place to live and for the most part townhomes and multi-unit mid-rise residential and or taller residential towers are what are now coming down the pipeline. As with Los Angeles in the past, the Wasatch Front will now see its town and village centers such as Murray, Sugarhouse, Sandy, South Salt Lake, Lehi, Orem, Provo, Ogden, etc. become taller and denser. State Street will begin to look more like Wilshire Blvd. and Century City-like centers will begin to develop between Provo and Ogden. It won't be long before Payson and Santaquin are seamlessly connected to Nephi, Heber Valley is built out as much as conservationists will allow, while Tooele Valley becomes Salt Lake's future San Fernando Valley.

Be patient, many on this forum have had to eat their "it will never happen" words. Short of a global catastrophe, there are a lot of changes coming for Salt Lake City and the Wasatch Front these next 10 to 15 years, especially as the next Olympics approach.

[Atlas]

Salt Lake is held back by its reputation, deserved or not. Austin and Nashville are also in business-friendly states but those states are much larger than Utah and they're also known as fun music and party destinations. People outside of Utah think SLC is where the Mormons prevent you from drinking and having fun.

As for gathering spaces, other than the two block-sized parking lots, both owned by the LDS church, there is no available space for a new public park downtown. The Fleet Block will likely have a 3-4 acre green space, at least. Unfortunately, any new park will also attenuate the development potential of these areas due to state laws preventing new restaurants and bars near public parks.


Source

[scottharding]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Salt Lake is held back by its reputation, deserved or not. Austin and Nashville are also in business-friendly states but those states are much larger than Utah and they're also known as fun music and party destinations. People outside of Utah think SLC is where the Mormons prevent you from drinking and having fun.

As for gathering spaces, other than the two block-sized parking lots, both owned by the LDS church, there is no available space for a new public park downtown. The Fleet Block will likely have a 3-4 acre green space, at least. Unfortunately, any new park will also attenuate the development potential of these areas due to state laws preventing new restaurants and bars near public parks.

Your second paragraph proves the first. Though there's nuance to it, people's perception of Utah isn't inaccurate.

[mstar]

Originally Posted by Makid

Should also include a brown/beige tint to the building. We want it to blend in, not stand out too much. /s

Smaller, boxier, cheaper and more beige??? Wow, can't wait until it's built!

[Sight-Seer]

Thinking about what Atlas said about the LDS Church's empty blocks downtown. The Church doesn't have any plans for them for possibly decades. If the Church really wanted to help the city, they would tear up the pavement and make a two-block park. Traffic on 2nd West is negligible, they could connect the two blocks. It wouldn't cost a lot to plant grass so that people living downtown have some open space. People will go where the grass and open space is.

[Schmoe]

Originally Posted by Dallas Snob

And SCHMOE; AWESOME shot of the East side. My bet is still on Worthington topping out before Astra...

It's going to be close!

Doesn't matter to me...I'll just be enjoying the race.

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by scottharding

Your second paragraph proves the first. Though there's nuance to it, people's perception of Utah isn't inaccurate.

The irony wasn't lost on me There's certainly a kernel of truth to SLC's perception, as you say.

Originally Posted by Sight-Seer

Thinking about what Atlas said about the LDS Church's empty blocks downtown. The Church doesn't have any plans for them for possibly decades. If the Church really wanted to help the city, they would tear up the pavement and make a two-block park. Traffic on 2nd West is negligible, they could connect the two blocks. It wouldn't cost a lot to plant grass so that people living downtown have some open space. People will go where the grass and open space is.

It doesn't seem like there's anything planned for Block 40 for the foreseeable future, so I for one would be elated if they decided to rip up the parking and turn it into a privately-owned, public park of some kind. Even better would be for the church to sell it to a big developer with a vision. There's so much history and potential on that block and it's a shame that it's been wasted for parking for so long. In addition to new transit-adjacent housing and/or office/hotel space, it would be the ideal place for an NHL arena or a large new museum.

There have been rumors that Block 85 will be utilized relatively soon for expanding Ensign College. Makid may know more about that.

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by Atlas

Salt Lake is held back by its reputation, deserved or not. Austin and Nashville are also in business-friendly states but those states are much larger than Utah and they're also known as fun music and party destinations. People outside of Utah think SLC is where the Mormons prevent you from drinking and having fun.

The city’s reputation is tainted nationwide. Look at how Salt Lake is represented in the media. If you weren’t from here, you’d assume we’re still running things like it’s 1840. I used to drive visitors from the airport to downtown and every conversation went the same: I was just debunking dumb shit.

Here’s another antidote: I visited a film festival in Manhattan a number of years ago. When I mingled with other attendees, their whole demeanor would change the second I’d mention I’m from Salt Lake. Every single time. It was like I was suddenly an alien. After the same encounter over and over I just started saying I lived in Denver.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

The city’s reputation is tainted nationwide. Look at how Salt Lake is represented in the media. If you weren’t from here, you’d assume we’re still running things like it’s 1840. I used to drive visitors from the airport to downtown and every conversation went the same: I was just debunking dumb shit.

Here’s another antidote: I visited a film festival in Manhattan a number of years ago. When I mingled with other attendees, their whole demeanor would change the second I’d mention I’m from Salt Lake. Every single time. It was like I was suddenly an alien. After the same encounter over and over I just started saying I lived in Denver.

That is too funny, but also really sad. I lived in Atlanta, Portland, and Seattle, and I would always be careful when and how I would bring up that I'm from SLC, Utah and LDS. Always fun navigating those conversations.

[i2theSKY]

Regardless of opinions on image, Utah is already one of the fastest growing states in the country. On that subject you will have your hiccups here and there as any state will, but I honestly think our image has steadily been improving over the years. Give some credit to Youtube creators etc. that show the outside world that life is actually pretty normal here, in addition to how much natural beauty there is. Outside of the downtown core (multiple 500+ ft towers please) I personally wouldn't want to see us growing any faster than we currently are. There has to be a balance between growth and quality of life.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by Orlando

That is too funny, but also really sad. I lived in Atlanta, Portland, and Seattle, and I would always be careful when and how I would bring up that I'm SLC, Utah and LDS. Always fun navigating those conversations.

I’ve had this experience within the US as well. Strangely though I’ve spent a decent amount of time in Europe and not only has almost everyone heard of Utah or Salt Lake City but they seem to have a positive opinion about the area and a desire to visit. Might be because of the national parks or the history with the olympics.

[Rileybo]

Sure we skyscraperpage.com members want to see SLC grow, but does anyone really want to see Utah’s overall culture and values spread and grow? Look how our government and people mishandle literally everything.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

Sure we skyscraperpage.com members want to see SLC grow, but does anyone really want to see Utah’s overall culture and values spread and grow? Look how our government and people mishandle literally everything.

Seriously?? You've just insulted in the worst way a good number of active members on this forum! You claim that your government and people mishandle literally everything, yet each year for the past couple of decades the Wasatch Front is at the top tier of endless lists generated by secular experts and think tanks. Sure there are outliers, as with every area. Whenever I myself or friends are having problems that might cast a wide net of dispersion on any group of people the problem is usually more self-inflicted. There are some things in which I definitely differ from the L.D.S. Church. However, I have never known a more magnanimous, charitable, and generally kinder people as a whole.

I'm from Europe and am a first-generation American. I have spent a great deal of time in Europe, especially England, France, and Italy. The opinions are generally very positive on many fronts, especially these past twenty years. The same goes for a wide net of people here in Southern California.

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by delts145

Seriously?? You've just insulted in the worst way a good number of active members on this forum! You claim that your government and people mishandle literally everything, yet each year for the past couple of decades the Wasatch Front is at the top tier of endless lists generated by secular experts and think tanks. Sure there are outliers, as with every area. Whenever I myself or friends are having problems that might cast a wide net of dispersion on any group of people the problem is usually more self-inflicted. There are some things in which I definitely differ from the L.D.S. Church. However, I have never known a more magnanimous, charitable, and generally kinder people as a whole.

I'm from Europe and am a first-generation American. I have spent a great deal of time in Europe, especially England, France, and Italy. The opinions are generally very positive on many fronts, especially these past twenty years. The same goes for a wide net of people here in Southern California.

I don’t disagree LDS people are kind and good people overall, but I don’t like a church ran state. Separation between church and state is of the upmost importance imo. Utah does not have that in many arenas from gerrymandering voting districts, controlling the liquor laws, to basically ousting the Boy Scouts for allowing LGBT leaders as a few examples. Not here to offend just offering some examples as to why church and state should be separate, but is impossible to achieve in Utah unless we continue to have a large influx of migrants into the state with different viewpoints who can even the playing field. The LDS church does many great things but also does things that are not positive. This is true for any group. That’s why I support a diverse group of cultures and ideas and backgrounds opposed to a State dominated by one. Whenever you have a State or Country dominated by one ideology you run into problems and it is not productive for all. Now, with all that said I’m not against the Utah/LDS culture spreading beyond Utah. I’m not LDS, but I believe in freedom of ideas, belief and religion. Whether or not people buy into those things beyond Utah is up to them.

[delts145]

Well said Geographer. Homogony does tend to create challenges and that would be some of the areas where I definitely think improvements can be made. These types of challenges can happen everywhere, whether it's political or religious dominance.

IMO, the biggest problem with today's society is the tendency to cast too wide of a hateful net on those we perceive to be different than us.

[Rileybo]

When I mention Utah’s culture… I’m not taking a dig at specifically Mormons, jeez. I’m more talking about how we build and operate. You know a lot of my issues have to do with the nation as a whole.

[TMoneySLC]

Originally Posted by Sight-Seer

Thinking about what Atlas said about the LDS Church's empty blocks downtown. The Church doesn't have any plans for them for possibly decades. If the Church really wanted to help the city, they would tear up the pavement and make a two-block park. Traffic on 2nd West is negligible, they could connect the two blocks. It wouldn't cost a lot to plant grass so that people living downtown have some open space. People will go where the grass and open space is.

To be fair, I live Cap Hill/Downtown and there is a fair amount of green space in this area. The Capitol is highly a highly utilized public space as well as the adjacent Memory Grove and City Creek Canyon. The latter of which connects to the Bonneville Shoreline Trail system. As well, Warm Springs Park to the north and a handful of small pocket parks dot the area. I think those living more in the CBD and East Central neighborhoods could certainly benefit from a little more public space though.

To the idea of closing 200 W, that would be terrible for the Capitol Hill neighborhood. This is the main egress to downtown for the residents of the area so we don't have to deal with all the traffic on 300 W or West Temple.