The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Ocean Steel would have to give up some property unless maybe it’s a raised boardwalk on the rocks. Thoughts ?

That would be ideal (like at Lily Lake) but would be hell in the winter, and probably expensive. You'd have to get OSCO to pony up... but they do make steel, so, lol.

Alternatively, replace the Chesley sidewalk. There's enough space (nearly 17' between the curb and the parking lot excluding a 200' narrow stretch by the steel plant) that could host it all the way to the bridge. I doubt OSCO would be upset about losing some lawn in exchange for free landscaping and lighting out front. Let them put up a plaque in exchange for a substantial donation or something.

Tin Can Beach makes a suitable (temporary) terminus to the path, but IIRC, it's getting another block next year-- Broad St from Sydney to Carmarthen. Maybe they'll start ticketing people for blocking the sidewalk with their cars all the way down Broad first. I'd rather see it hug the tracks from the beach to the sports fields at the end of Wentworth than go down a mostly residential street with a million driveways and front steps. This could all be done on Barrack Green property, which I doubt anyone would object to.

[sailor734]

Article in this morning's TJ (paywalled) saying SJ had 148M in construction last year and 479 residential housing unit starts. They also claimed 1700 units "in the queue" but I'm kind of skeptical about that number. I wonder if includes approved but inactive projects like head of King and Tin Can beach?


Whoops! That story was in last Saturday's paper .......but we only got it delivered this morning....of course, for some reason, we didn't get this AM's paper.

TJ appears to be on it's last legs. Wonder how long it will continue? There is very little local news content anymore.....maybe one or two stories a day.

[NB_ExistsToo]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Ocean Steel would have to give up some property unless maybe it’s a raised boardwalk on the rocks. Thoughts ?

[IMG][/IMG]

That stretch is awful for foot traffic. You're on a sidewalk that has zero gap between traffic and sidewalk, then you're pushed up against a concrete wall for a good chunk of the walk. I used to work at Ocean and numerous cruise passengers would stop in and request to use the washroom. It's just a poor stretch for people to walk.

I'm firmly of the belief they should be directing foot traffic up Bentley St and down Douglas Ave. That stretch of road is much nicer with the park, Museum and High School buildings, and significantly less vehicle traffic. Then the foot traffic could direct to Fallsview park side of things, or across the bridge.

The only concern there is there would be a need of a crosswalk or have foot traffic path under the bridge in order to get to the sidewalk on the bridge.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by NB_ExistsToo

That stretch is awful for foot traffic. You're on a sidewalk that has zero gap between traffic and sidewalk, then you're pushed up against a concrete wall for a good chunk of the walk. I used to work at Ocean and numerous cruise passengers would stop in and request to use the washroom. It's just a poor stretch for people to walk.

I'm firmly of the belief they should be directing foot traffic up Bentley St and down Douglas Ave. That stretch of road is much nicer with the park, Museum and High School buildings, and significantly less vehicle traffic. Then the foot traffic could direct to Fallsview park side of things, or across the bridge.

The only concern there is there would be a need of a crosswalk or have foot traffic path under the bridge in order to get to the sidewalk on the bridge.

I agree that the stretch of Chesley by Ocean Steel is a pretty grim/bleak walk. The idea of directing Reversing Falls bound foot traffic up to Douglas Ave and thus past Museum/Park etc has merit. Of course getting them across to the south side of the bridge would have to be dealt with as you point out.

[DyAm00394]

The announcement the Prime Minister has made while visiting the city this morning:
Removing barriers to build more homes, faster in Saint John, New Brunswick

"Right now, in communities across the country, building the housing we need, especially affordable housing, is too hard. That’s why the federal government is working with municipalities to break down barriers and build more homes, faster so Canadians – from young families, to seniors, to newcomers – can find a place to call home, at a price they can afford.

The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, today announced that the federal government has reached an agreement with the City of Saint John, New Brunswick, to fast-track 285 new housing units over the next three years. This work will help spur the construction of more than 1,700 homes over the next decade and help meet the demand in Saint John.

Under the Housing Accelerator Fund, this agreement will provide over $9.1 million to eliminate barriers to building the housing we need, faster. It will allow for more housing options in the city, including more rental, affordable, and missing-middle housing, with up to four units per residential lot. As part of the agreement, Saint John will cut red tape, reduce requirements, and accelerate approval timelines for missing-middle units. The city will work to reform its zoning bylaw approvals, use public and underutilized lands for housing development, and implement a new permitting system. It will also work with non-profit and private home builders to coordinate, fund, and develop affordable housing projects. Together, these initiatives are going to significantly improve the way housing is built and delivered in Saint John.

The Housing Accelerator Fund is helping cut red tape and fast-track the construction of over 450,000 new homes for people in towns, cities, and Indigenous communities across Canada over the next decade. It asks for innovative action plans from local governments, and once approved, provides upfront funding to ensure the timely building of new homes, as well as additional funds upon delivering results. Local governments are encouraged to think big and be bold in their approaches, which could include accelerating project timelines, allowing increased housing density, and encouraging affordable housing units.

The Government of Canada is supporting the middle class – and housing is key to that work. Our plan to double the rate of housing construction over the next decade will help build the housing supply we need. We will continue to work with provincial, territorial, and municipal governments, as well as Indigenous partners, to keep building more homes for Canadians, faster, and make life better for everyone."

“Housing is a priority for Canadians. That’s why we’re working with mayors across the country to cut red tape and change the way we build housing. Today’s announcement with Saint John will help build more homes, faster, so that every Canadian has a good place to call their own.”

- The Rt. Hon. Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of Canada


“Today’s announcement will help fast-track nearly 300 homes for the residents of Saint John in the next three years and more than 1,700 homes over the next decade. By working with cities, mayors, and all levels of government, we are helping to get more homes built for Canadians at prices they can afford.”

- The Hon. Sean Fraser, Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities


“Today marks a pivotal moment for Saint John as we collaborate with the federal government on the Housing Accelerator Fund. This partnership is more than just a financial commitment; it is a promise to our residents. We are dedicated to accelerating the development of affordable housing, ensuring every member of our community has a place to call home. This initiative is more than just building houses; it's about building a future. Together, we're laying the foundation for a stronger, more inclusive community where everyone has the opportunity to thrive.”

- Her Worship Donna Noade Reardon, Mayor of Saint John

https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releas...re-homes-faster-saint-john-new-brunswick

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

The announcement the Prime Minister has made while visiting the city this morning:
Removing barriers to build more homes, faster in Saint John, New Brunswick




https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releas...re-homes-faster-saint-john-new-brunswick

Didn't Moncton get 15.5m under this program?

Gotta say, at first glance 9.1 for Saint John seems like a bit of a slap in the face. Maybe we elected the wrong kind of Liberal MP?

[cdnguys]

Seems at least $4m too short. Kinda surprised at this. But then again we got $205m for port

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Seems at least $4m too short. Kinda surprised at this. But then again we got $205m for port

True enough although this is a national program for all municipalities rather than a one off like the port. I was a little surprised it wasn't in the 12-14 area (less than Moncton but not remarkably so)

Saint john has never been a Liberal stronghold. Maybe, given their popularity, they are concentrating spending in core Liberal ridings? Sort of a fortress strategy to rebuild from if they get creamed in the next election.

Although, 338Canada.com had SJ as a toss up last time I looked so you'd think they would throw more government money at trying to hold onto the seat.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Didn't Moncton get 15.5m under this program?

Gotta say, at first glance 9.1 for Saint John seems like a bit of a slap in the face. Maybe we elected the wrong kind of Liberal MP?

Hey, you got JT to come and personally make the announcement.

That's gotta be worth something........

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

True enough although this is a national program for all municipalities rather than a one off like the port. I was a little surprised it wasn't in the 12-14 area (less than Moncton but not remarkably so)

Saint john has never been a Liberal stronghold. Maybe, given their popularity, they are concentrating spending in core Liberal ridings? Sort of a fortress strategy to rebuild from if they get creamed in the next election.

Although, 338Canada.com had SJ as a toss up last time I looked so you'd think they would throw more government money at trying to hold onto the seat.

Or maybe the city’s application didn’t have “shovel ready” projects or somehow missed the mark on application ? Or there is some sort of formula with a variable we aren’t aware of like population growth as we are growing at 50% rate of Moncton.

[darkharbour]

We could also look at this optimistically and suggest that we got less funding to reduce "red tape" for development because we had a more efficient process and newer planning to begin with.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Or maybe the city’s application didn’t have “shovel ready” projects or somehow missed the mark on application ? Or there is some sort of formula with a variable we aren’t aware of like population growth as we are growing at 50% rate of Moncton.

Certainly possible but the cynic in me has to wonder if the power and influence of the MP's from in and around Moncton vs those from the SJ area didn't tip the scales. SJ hasn't managed to elect a MP who has remotely been a somebody in Ottawa since the Gerry Merrithew days

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

We could also look at this optimistically and suggest that we got less funding to reduce "red tape" for development because we had a more efficient process and newer planning to begin with.

Sorry, but I think that's a stretch (very sunny outlook though )

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by sailor734

True enough although this is a national program for all municipalities rather than a one off like the port. I was a little surprised it wasn't in the 12-14 area (less than Moncton but not remarkably so)

Saint john has never been a Liberal stronghold. Maybe, given their popularity, they are concentrating spending in core Liberal ridings? Sort of a fortress strategy to rebuild from if they get creamed in the next election.

Although, 338Canada.com had SJ as a toss up last time I looked so you'd think they would throw more government money at trying to hold onto the seat.

It's a tossup... until April, when the boundary redistribution goes into effect. Saint John-Rothesay disappears and is replaced with Saint John-Kennebecasis, and NB Southwest picks up everything west of the river.

Saint John-Rothesay 2019: 38 35 12 9 2 3
Saint John-Rothesay 2021: 46 33 13 3 5

Saint John-Kennebecasis 2019: 36 37 12 10 2 3
Saint John-Kennebecasis 2021: 43 36 13 3 2

Basically, in 2021 the Liberals picked up the Green vote, the PPC activated mostly new voters, and the CPC was stagnant.

338 takes all past results and polling equally in their calculations, and Wayne Long EXTREMELY overperformed in 2021. He is retiring, the bloom is off the Liberal rose generally, and the Greens have somewhat recovered. If the CPC gets a half decent candidate it's theirs for the taking, but it's not a layup. Long got a lot of crossover votes in every cycle which are not hard-and-fast Liberal supporters. The new riding gave the NB PCs 58% in 2020 and 49% in 2018. The CPC and the PCs aren't the same thing of course, but those are hard numbers for a less-being-Wayne-Long Liberal to start out with.

[cdnguys]

This is a key take away from announcement:

“The deal also says the city will use public lands for developments, amend its zoning bylaw to permit higher density in key areas, with up to four units per residential lot, and introduce electronic permitting for various stages of construction.”

So public land for development, where could that mean? Are we talking like the old Millidgeville fire station, the former sub station on Smythe, etc…. or something more like a sliver of Rockwood Park? I feel as if the city knows what they want to do if this was mentioned.

I think a great spot for housing would be across the entrance from Rockwood Park where a school used to be and is now a community garden. That would fit a decent sized building. Also those big tracts of land along Dorchester and Sewell Streets are prime locations.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

This is a key take away from announcement:

“The deal also says the city will use public lands for developments, amend its zoning bylaw to permit higher density in key areas, with up to four units per residential lot, and introduce electronic permitting for various stages of construction.”

So public land for development, where could that mean? Are we talking like the old Millidgeville fire station, the former sub station on Smythe, etc…. or something more like a sliver of Rockwood Park? I feel as if the city knows what they want to do if this was mentioned.

I think a great spot for housing would be across the entrance from Rockwood Park where a school used to be and is now a community garden. That would fit a decent sized building. Also those big tracts of land along Dorchester and Sewell Streets are prime locations.

Any Rockwood slicing would draw opposition. My money is on underutilized parking lots: Sewell and Paddock.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Any Rockwood slicing would draw opposition. My money is on underutilized parking lots: Sewell and Paddock.

I agree. Any talk of Rockwood Park would bring out the torches and pitchforks again. I mean last time wasn't even really Rockwood Park. IFAIR it was city land adjacent to the actual park that was in question and still the opposition was fierce.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I agree. Any talk of Rockwood Park would bring out the torches and pitchforks again. I mean last time wasn't even really Rockwood Park. IFAIR it was city land adjacent to the actual park that was in question and still the opposition was fierce.

I laughed at your torches and pitchforks comments because they’ll do that anyhow for a new building in the centre of city where it is zoned for and appropriate for
Such is SJ

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by sailor734

True enough although this is a national program for all municipalities rather than a one off like the port. I was a little surprised it wasn't in the 12-14 area (less than Moncton but not remarkably so)

Saint john has never been a Liberal stronghold. Maybe, given their popularity, they are concentrating spending in core Liberal ridings? Sort of a fortress strategy to rebuild from if they get creamed in the next election.

Although, 338Canada.com had SJ as a toss up last time I looked so you'd think they would throw more government money at trying to hold onto the seat.

I'm wondering if Moncton simply has a greater need for more housing than Saint John does?

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by OliverD

I'm wondering if Moncton simply has a greater need for more housing than Saint John does?

That's certainly possible. My biggest concern is that there appears to be no acknowledgement of the large discrepancy between the funding amounts for the two cities nor any explanation of why it exists.

The reasons may well be benign and logical but absent any explanation it's only natural to wonder about what role back room political influence played. Given the large disparity in power and influence within government between Dominic LeBlanc and Ginette Petitpas-Taylor on one hand and Wayne Long on the other I think such thoughts are only natural.