The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by wave46

The mill rate is a function of the assessed value of the home.

So, yes, Toronto has very low mill rates as the homes are highly valued. Timmins has very high mill rates as the homes are much lower in value. Of itself, the mill rate doesn't really make sense as a comparison point. The whole tax bill (i.e. how many dollars does one pay in property taxes) is a better point of comparison.

I'd suspect the average Toronto homeowner pays more in property taxes than one in Timmins. Then again, the service levels in Toronto are higher than Timmins, so there's that too.

I don't know what the mill rate means. I am talking percentage rate that is applied to all houses. What I propose is that Toronto ups the percentage rate to the point it is inline with somewhere else, like Timmins. This would then help them pay for their looming deficit.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I don't know what the mill rate means. I am talking percentage rate that is applied to all houses. What I propose is that Toronto ups the percentage rate to the point it is inline with somewhere else, like Timmins. This would then help them pay for their looming deficit.

Then people emigrate the city en masse, justifying the slash in TTC service. How nice.

[ssiguy]

Despite the TTC's problems, there was a lot of really good politics in their potential cut back in service. A huge cutback in bus service is bad news but eventually it slides off the political radar however that is not the case with a subway line. The shutting down of a entire line will NEVER get off the front pages and hence applies a ,lot of political heat to bailout the transit system.

Again, though I don't see it happening. Urbanites are the core of Liberal support so it would be suicide for Trudeau but also I think there would be a lot of pressure from business groups as they know that their workers rely on it to get to their jobs.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Then people emigrate the city en masse, justifying the slash in TTC service. How nice.

Where would they move?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Where would they move?

York Region

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

York Region

Taxes are not lower in the 905 regions.

[Dengler Avenue]

It’s anecdotal on my part in the sense that I know many whose parents moved from Scarborough to Markham, Newmarket, etc.

Back to Transit. I hope that just as everyone said, Tory’s only “threatening” to shut down lines 3&4 to attract federal aid.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

It’s anecdotal on my part in the sense that I know many whose parents moved from Scarborough to Markham, Newmarket, etc.

Back to Transit. I hope that just as everyone said, Tory’s only “threatening” to shut down lines 3&4 to attract federal aid.

I would bet that give it a month or 2, and he will act on it.

[Dengler Avenue]

I’ll speak based on my experience with the 2 lines.
For Sheppard Line, midday ridership’s low enough that shutting it down might not even make a noticeable difference during that period. If shutting it down means that 85 and 985 need to continue to Sheppard-Yonge Station, it may even be more convenient for some because it eliminates one transfer.
On the other hand, if Tory really suspends Scarborough RT, people will flip. Scarborough will wonder why it always gets the short-end of the stick. #Scarborexits

Edit: As it stands right now, 85 does run to Sheppard-Yonge Station on a 20-minute frequency. With that in mind, “continuing to S-Y STN” can be construed as more frequent service to the station.
For Line 3, it has a replacement shuttle, but the amount of zigzagging that it needs seems awful to me.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Back to Transit. I hope that just as everyone said, Tory’s only “threatening” to shut down lines 3&4 to attract federal aid.

Toronto really doesn't have a choice. By current law Toronto (and all Ontario Municipalities) must balance their 2020 budget. Revenue in Toronto dropped by ~$600M this year but there was not a matching drop in expenses yet; super aggressive cuts will be required to trim that amount from the July through December. Since most of the revenue drop was TTC related, TTC is the obvious target to cut rather than laying off 50% of the police force for example.

Ford can do a number of things to make it easier, such as allowing the city to borrow for operating expenses for 2020 (allows 30 year payback rather than requiring it to be balanced by December).

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by rbt

Toronto really doesn't have a choice. By current law Toronto (and all Ontario Municipalities) must balance their 2020 budget. Revenue in Toronto dropped by ~$600M this year but there was not a matching drop in expenses yet; super aggressive cuts will be required to trim that amount from the July through December. Since most of the revenue drop was TTC related, TTC is the obvious target to cut rather than laying off 50% of the police force for example.

Ford can do a number of things to make it easier, such as allowing the city to borrow for operating expenses for 2020 (allows 30 year payback rather than requiring it to be balanced by December).

One thing this mess has taught us is that we might be prepared for a mess. Property taxes should go up. Maybe not to fully put the city in the black, but there should be major increases of about 5% per year until the city can run all it's services and be in the black.

Maybe this is the last we hear of tax cuts in politics. We want the services, we had better find a way to pay for them.

[MalcolmTucker]

TBH, the federal government could tomorrow just say that Transit Agencies will be eligible for the federal wage subsidy program with eligibility determined by drop in non-government revenue.



It is funny - depending on how the Canada Line's compensation is determined they might be eligible (if enough is variable based on ridership)! but the rest of TransLink would be out in the cold.

[someone123]

Halifax Transit's planning has become a lot more ambitious lately. A couple of years ago the plan was to tweak things over a 15-year period and now council is looking at overhauling the system with new BRT routes, ferries, and electric buses by 2030. They found that back in 2017, 89% of bus service could already have been electrified, and it looks like it's not very expensive to switch fleet renewal over to electrics (moderately capital cost, moderately lower maintenance and fuel costs).

Here's the BRT and ferry network map, which I think is pretty similar to what they had a few months ago:



A bit of discussion: https://morethanbuses.ca/2020/05/25/brt-electric-buses/

This would be a big deal for the city since there are so many routes that are served by a large number of loud and dirty diesel buses. Halifax is in an awkward position where it needs lots of transit and has bad traffic but doesn't have clear corridors for building rail. And I wonder what the point is of building electrified lines right now if battery-powered vehicles are already viable and will be even better in 10-15 years.

The Green Line specifically is interesting because it's a growing corridor on the peninsula. There's a lot of active development and potential along that corridor.

A drawback of this plan is it still has relatively weak intermodal connections. For example it doesn't connect up with the South End train station (which doesn't even appear on the map; there's also a transit bus to the airport that terminates at Scotia Square), and the ferry terminals aren't major bus terminals. I'm not sure it would be practical to fix that without more expensive underground infrastructure.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by someone123

Halifax Transit's planning has become a lot more ambitious lately. A couple of years ago the plan was to tweak things over a 15-year period and now council is looking at overhauling the system with new BRT routes, ferries, and electric buses by 2030. They found that back in 2017, 89% of bus service could already have been electrified, and it looks like it's not very expensive to switch fleet renewal over to electrics (moderately capital cost, moderately lower maintenance and fuel costs).

Here's the BRT and ferry network map, which I think is pretty similar to what they had a few months ago:



A bit of discussion: https://morethanbuses.ca/2020/05/25/brt-electric-buses/

This would be a big deal for the city since there are so many routes that are served by a large number of loud and dirty diesel buses. Halifax is in an awkward position where it needs lots of transit and has bad traffic but doesn't have clear corridors for building rail. And I wonder what the point is of building electrified lines right now if battery-powered vehicles are already viable and will be even better in 10-15 years.

The Green Line specifically is interesting because it's a growing corridor on the peninsula. There's a lot of active development and potential along that corridor.

A drawback of this plan is it still has relatively weak intermodal connections. For example it doesn't connect up with the South End train station (which doesn't even appear on the map; there's also a transit bus to the airport that terminates at Scotia Square), and the ferry terminals aren't major bus terminals. I'm not sure it would be practical to fix that without more expensive underground infrastructure.

Finally, Halifax is doing more for the core and less for the commuters. True, it does not go to the train station, but that is not likely much of a trip generator. So, conventional service would be good. Maybe an express service from Scotia Square might be in order. My one concern is the bridge. How do you prioritize the BRT on a bridge that crawls much of the rush hours?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Finally, Halifax is doing more for the core and less for the commuters.

Yep. This plan provides pretty good coverage of the urban core, and is intelligible for visitors and commuters alike. The Mill Cove ferry, depending on how fast it is, could be useful to commuters in the northern part of the metro. Larry Uteck West would be another connection point.

Halifax's transit debates (including in the local papers or in council) used to be so bizarre. Any time an improvement was proposed it would be derailed by "what about Truro?". It would be like if transit discussions in Toronto revolved around linking up Peterborough and Barrie. Maybe service to those places does make sense, maybe not, but if kept in perspective it would get about 1% of the airtime.

The bread and butter for ridership will be people in the urban core and inner suburbs like Fairview, Clayton Park, and Dartmouth. Areas like Hammonds Plains are much harder to serve and Truro or Bridgewater or Kentville are not in the transit service area.

[Dengler Avenue]

Lol, I can’t believe that even Truro’s mentioned. If you’re near the 104, IMO you’re too far.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Lol, I can’t believe that even Truro’s mentioned. If you’re near the 104, IMO you’re too far.

It is no different than the GO going to K/W, Hamilton or Barrie. Halifax is the capital, and the largest city in Nova Scotia. People do commute that far.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

It is no different than the GO going to K/W, Hamilton or Barrie. Halifax is the capital, and the largest city in Nova Scotia. People do commute that far.

Nova Scotia had passenger rail (dayliners) going to these towns until 1994 or so, really not that long ago. There was a train to the Annapolis Valley, one to the South Shore, the main line that went to Truro and on to Moncton and Montreal, and then an eastern railway that served the Musquodoboit valley and Eastern Shore. You could take these trains into town in the morning and back in the evening. Bedford was at one time a railway suburb. Fall River and Windsor Junction are mostly exurbia but have a small core dating back to the Victorian railway.

There wasn't a lot of overlap in time when these small town areas had both twinned modern highways and frequent rail service.

Some people want to recreate the old rail system. There are still a lot of commuters to Halifax from the first "ring" of small towns: Kentville CA/Windsor, Truro, Hants County, and the near South Shore (Bridgewater/Lunenburg/Mahone Bay). This is "central Nova Scotia" and is maybe 1/4 or 1/5 of the land area but 2/3 of the population.

I think a more frequent Moncton-Halifax train via Truro might come back one day, but I doubt the others will. Either way, the city needs to focus on transit for the urban area.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by someone123

Nova Scotia had passenger rail (dayliners) going to these towns until 1994 or so, really not that long ago. There was a train to the Annapolis Valley, one to the South Shore, the main line that went to Truro and on to Moncton and Montreal, and then an eastern railway that served the Musquodoboit valley and Eastern Shore. You could take these trains into town in the morning and back in the evening. Bedford was at one time a railway suburb. Fall River and Windsor Junction are mostly exurbia but have a small core dating back to the Victorian railway.

There wasn't a lot of overlap in time when these small town areas had both twinned modern highways and frequent rail service.

Some people want to recreate the old rail system. There are still a lot of commuters to Halifax from the first "ring" of small towns: Kentville CA/Windsor, Truro, Hants County, and the near South Shore (Bridgewater/Lunenburg/Mahone Bay). This is "central Nova Scotia" and is maybe 1/4 or 1/5 of the land area but 2/3 of the population.

I think a more frequent Moncton-Halifax train via Truro might come back one day, but I doubt the others will. Either way, the city needs to focus on transit for the urban area.

Seeing those communities served by rail would help with Halifax. However, the old rail routes are windy and would be quite slow. New ROW would be needed.

Currently, you can get to Windsor as well as along the 102 by rail. If regional rail were to come to Halifax, those 2 would be the first easy routes.

[gunnar777]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2019/0...et-333-places-de-stationnement-a-mirabel

In french, but the Montreal area will be getting it's 63rd commuter rail station, in Mirabel.

Whatever happened to this plan? Is it still underway?