UBCx - Millennium Line Extension Arbutus to UBC | Proposed

[ilikeredheads]

The line ain't going elevated. It has to cut through low density residentials, parklands, golfcourse etc. Not to mention this is NIMBY central.

You also have to account for space so the tracks can transition from underground to guideway. Just because it can handle 6% gradient doesn't mean you should. More wear and tear on the trains.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

The point is how the current status quo with an FN name and a "normal" name doesn't do much for reconciliation - maybe this would.

The difference between "around Jericho" and "through Jericho plus a SkyTrain viaduct" is likely a significant-enough difference to cause a headache for any politician involved. At any rate, surely full M-Line coverage and three bus stops on 4th (possibly one for the 44) is enough capacity? It's not like there's anywhere else to drive to in Point Grey.


Ah, so the one we all collectively brainstormed in high school. Much as I'd like to see it happen, I doubt the park trails and houses on Allison are negotiable... and we're still skipping Lelem and University Village.

As for the golf course, it's legally a golf course until 2083. I suppose they might be convinced to downgrade to a nine-hole course, but I suspect that any compensation would cancel out the savings from being elevated. So no SkyTrain there either.

"Green majority" as in the trees, not Point Grey. If Vancouver already shot down a four-lane Lions Gate for the same reason, the UEL will probably be much the same.

And everyone would call it Jericho anyways. What's the point? Language is a tool for communication, not for reconciliation.

10th Ave is 2 blocks away. W 4th is 4 blocks away. Really?


Pacific Spirit isn't old growth, like much of Stanley Park.
Also, they already cut down a ton of trees for Lelem anyways.
Also, Skytrains don't cause roadkill like a expanded road does.

The main UEL station and the South UEL Station is at the same place it is with the original plan, so University Village is still serviced
Lelem is also serviced, as it just pushes the station from a direct exit onto Lelem to a 3-minute walk (and in exchange gets closer to possible future redevelopments on Acadia, as well as Acadia itself- a station directly on Acadia is impossible due to the curve on University Blvd.)

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

The line ain't going elevated. It has to cut through low density residentials, parklands, golfcourse etc. Not to mention this is NIMBY central.

You also have to account for space so the tracks can transition from underground to guideway. Just because it can handle 6% gradient doesn't mean you should. More wear and tear on the trains.

None of that is a stopper (considering precedent on Skytrain) except for NIMBYs.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

And everyone would call it Jericho anyways. What's the point? Language is a tool for communication, not for reconciliation.

10th Ave is 2 blocks away. W 4th is 4 blocks away. Really?

Not if the sign is for "Iy'almakh" - even mangling the name is faster than remembering the old one. Same reason nobody says "GM Place" anymore.

Really. If going from one car a minute to five at Senakw is already the end of the world, diverting the Alma logjam down 8th will be worse.

Originally Posted by fredinno

Pacific Spirit isn't old growth, like much of Stanley Park.
Also, they already cut down a ton of trees for Lelem anyways.
Also, Skytrains don't cause roadkill like a expanded road does.

The main UEL station and the South UEL Station is at the same place it is with the original plan, so University Village is still serviced
Lelem is also serviced, as it just pushes the station from a direct exit onto Lelem to a 3-minute walk (and in exchange gets closer to possible future redevelopments on Acadia, as well as Acadia itself- a station directly on Acadia is impossible due to the curve on University Blvd.)

None of that is a stopper (considering precedent on Skytrain) except for NIMBYs.

Or they could just go underground until Blanca for another hundred million (a tunnel is apparently only $20m/km more than a viaduct) and hit the both of them dead-centre; sure, the view's going to suck, but that's a secondary goal.

It's a stopper if UBC and the golf course won't budge.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Not if the sign is for "Iy'almakh" - even mangling the name is faster than remembering the old one. Same reason nobody says "GM Place" anymore.

Really. If going from one car a minute to five at Senakw is already the end of the world, diverting the Alma logjam down 8th will be worse.



Or they could just go underground until Blanca for another hundred million (a tunnel is apparently only $20m/km more than a viaduct) and hit the both of them dead-centre; sure, the view's going to suck, but that's a secondary goal.

It's a stopper if UBC and the golf course won't budge.

Well, at least diverting Broadway onto 8th would likely remove the Alma logjam...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Well, at least diverting Broadway onto 8th would likely remove the Alma logjam...

So would the Millennium Line - if it can't, and the cars keep coming, then it's only a matter of time before Alma and Broadway/8th are backed up simultaneously.

It might become an arterial, and it might become a second high street for Point Grey. And TransLink'll probably have picked "underground back to 10th" long before that happens.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

You also have to account for space so the tracks can transition from underground to guideway. Just because it can handle 6% gradient doesn't mean you should. More wear and tear on the trains.

Skytrain can handle more than a 6% gradient - they just limit it to that to limit wear and tear.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Or they could just go underground until Blanca for another hundred million (a tunnel is apparently only $20m/km more than a viaduct) and hit the both of them dead-centre; sure, the view's going to suck, but that's a secondary goal.

I think it's a given that the line will be underground to Blanca, so any Jericho station will be underground. I suspect what will happen is it will travel to Broadway and Alma, and then curve up Broadway to 8th and have the Jericho station on the property itself (the station entrance doesn't have to be right on top of the station).

I haven't seen enough to sort out what they're going to do once they pass Blanca and are on UEL - and I don't think they've gotten that far either. IMO it's probably not worth it to go elevated and I don't know if on-ground or trenched would be any better (or worse) than underground.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I think it's a given that the line will be underground to Blanca, so any Jericho station will be underground. I suspect what will happen is it will travel to Broadway and Alma, and then curve up Broadway to 8th and have the Jericho station on the property itself (the station entrance doesn't have to be right on top of the station).

I haven't seen enough to sort out what they're going to do once they pass Blanca and are on UEL - and I don't think they've gotten that far either. IMO it's probably not worth it to go elevated and I don't know if on-ground or trenched would be any better (or worse) than underground.

Most likely. Though elevated west of Blanca apparently saves $150 million over a tunnel for the same coverage; if they can make it work, I say go for it.

[officedweller]

Remember we had a discussion about golf ball shields for the guideway a long time ago when I suggested the Broadway->Chancellor alignment but then elevated around the northern edge of the golf course and then across the north 'lobe' of the golf course.

[Diegotheartist1]

The City Council has just approved the Jericho Route for the UBC Extension.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Diegotheartist1

The City Council has just approved the Jericho Route for the UBC Extension.

Vancouver City Council approves UBC SkyTrain route with Jericho Lands Station
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/ubc-skyt...pproved-vancouver-city-council?auto=true

Also, from Daily Hive January 2019.
The article also mentioned using the site of the Wesbrook Building for the turn onto East Mall.

UBC SkyTrain route options examined along 8th Avenue and East Mall

Elevated option on University Boulevard west of Blanca Street

Most early concepts for the SkyTrain extension to UBC have assumed the continuation of tunnelling west of Blanca Street, within the University Endowment Lands, along University Boulevard.

But the report explores the potential feasibility of building an elevated guideway on the median of University Boulevard to cut down on construction costs. This concept would remain elevated to the terminus station at the campus.

A tunnel portal — the transition from underground to elevated — could be built 180 metres west of Blanca Street. From this point just east of the University Golf Course entrance, the rail line would run on ground level for 700 metres in order to transition to 1.9 km of elevated guideway for the remaining journey to the UBC terminus.

It is estimated that running SkyTrain elevated in this way would result in $190 million in cost reductions compared to tunnelled in 2018 dollars; a completely tunnelled extension from Arbutus Street to UBC is estimated at $2.36 billion, while the partially elevated option is pegged at $2.19 billion (not including the 40% to 60% project contingency fund).

This accounts for the difference in cost for an elevated or underground UBC station. Underground stations for the project are estimated at around $100 million each, while elevated stations are half the cost each.

“Considering the density of urban development and high property costs, having a tunnel portal east of Blanca Street would be very difficult to achieve primarily because of the physical requirements for the tunnel portal,” reads the report.

“Further, the significant grade along 10th Avenue between Alma Street and Blanca Street lends itself to a natural tunnel alignment with a portal just west of Blanca Street which allows the alignment to travel at-grade through a portion of Pacific Spirit Regional Park, saving additional costs.”

Although the analysis did not examine in detail, it identified two potential future station locations before reaching the academic campus along University Boulevard. Both future stations would serve future redevelopments adjacent to their location.

One future station on University Boulevard could serve the future University Golf Course Lands. Under the 2008 treaty, the Musqueam First Nation can redevelop its 146-acre golf course property after 2083, when a clause on the site’s required usage as a golf course ends.

“The proposed alignment identified in the 2012 study traverses the golf course,” the report notes. “However, much of the golf course is outside of the walk-up catchment for station locations proposed as part of that study. Provision for a future station within the golf course lands should be considered to enable longer-term redevelopment.”

A second future station was previously assumed adjacent to the site on University Boulevard east of Toronto Road, but it was not included in this analysis’ evaluation. Such a station location would serve the Musqueam’s Lelem ‘Block F’ development of 2,500 residents, a community centre, and 30,000-sq-ft of commercial space within a 21-acre site.
...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/ubc-skytrain-route-options

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Vancouver City Council approves UBC SkyTrain route with Jericho Lands Station
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/ubc-skyt...pproved-vancouver-city-council?auto=true

Also, from Daily Hive January 2019.
The article also mentioned using the site of the Wesbrook Building for the turn onto East Mall.


https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/ubc-skytrain-route-options

Can't help but notice that the graphic shows an alignment north of the golf course - guess you guys win the bet.

[ecbin]

In a 9-1 vote late Tuesday afternoon, city council endorsed the route recommended by city staff that would enable an on-site station near the core of the Jericho Lands neighbourhood development. TEAM councillor Colleen Hardwick voted in opposition, while Mayor Kennedy Stewart was absent from the decision.

As always, Hardwick provides no value to our city.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by ecbin

As always, Hardwick provides no value to our city.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

why was the Mayor absent for such a big vote on the future direction of the city?

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

why was the Mayor absent for such a big vote on the future direction of the city?

"I saved the environment but making everyone pay 25c for a cup. My job here is done."

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

I second that!

I also found this humorous: "To ensure West Point Grey retail village benefits from the SkyTrain extension..." Uhm how long has the 'creme de la creme' side of town freaked out about 'crime trains' travelling through their area? Now that UBC has some retail of it's own and Jericho is going to be redeveloped they want a Skytrain station for their own little retail strip?

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Can't help but notice that the graphic shows an alignment north of the golf course - guess you guys win the bet.

Still wait and see since Council's choice is just a suggestion to TransLink.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I also found this humorous: "To ensure West Point Grey retail village benefits from the SkyTrain extension..." Uhm how long has the 'creme de la creme' side of town freaked out about 'crime trains' travelling through their area? Now that UBC has some retail of it's own and Jericho is going to be redeveloped they want a Skytrain station for their own little retail strip?

Pretty sure it's everybody surrounding the village having the whine with cheese - the village itself probably wants every single customer it can get.

Besides, the more flow we get between Jericho and Sasamat, the more pressure there is for rezoning and redevelopment. One redevelopment here, one new high street there, and before you know it Point Grey has finally joined the rest of the city.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Pretty sure it's everybody surrounding the village having the whine with cheese - the village itself probably wants every single customer it can get.

Besides, the more flow we get between Jericho and Sasamat, the more pressure there is for rezoning and redevelopment. One redevelopment here, one new high street there, and before you know it Point Grey has finally joined the rest of the city.

I would point out that that's not really necessarily true- look at the similarly very-NIMBY Grandview-Woodlands. There's pretty much only a handful of towers around the few blocks around Commercial-Broadway itself, and almost nothing anywhere else.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I also found this humorous: "To ensure West Point Grey retail village benefits from the SkyTrain extension..." Uhm how long has the 'creme de la creme' side of town freaked out about 'crime trains' travelling through their area? Now that UBC has some retail of it's own and Jericho is going to be redeveloped they want a Skytrain station for their own little retail strip?

Business owners have very different motivations than homeowners do. For retailers, the more folks that are around, the merrier. The opposite is usually true for homeowners.