Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I have never been harassed or threatened, nor has my wife, and many of them are just seeking the shelter from the wind and rain that the south side of the station provides.

You sound gullible and are welcome to open your home and spare room to one of these poor souls. Let us know how that goes.

Those poor, poor souls are only seeking shelter to do drugs, run bike shops and other proceedings of property crime that is rampart in the area. One encounters shady people almost every time one goes out and this summer I witnessed a daytime robbery at Superstore. Random attacks have become more common and many agree that Metrotown is going downhill aka "doing Vancouver".

I hope Vancouver will continue to home these crazy on their side of the Boundary, which is where these types are coming fom the Joyce/Kingsway area social housing complexes.

https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/bu...ys-metrotown-increasingly-unsafe-3129069
https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/bu...ys-metrotown-going-downhill-fast-3889232

[SeymourDrake]

Originally Posted by Klazu

You sound gullible and are welcome to open your home and spare room to one of these poor souls. Let us know how that goes.

Those poor, poor souls are only seeking shelter to do drugs, run bike shops and other proceedings of property crime that is rampart in the area. One encounters shady people almost every time one goes out and this summer I witnessed a daytime robbery at Superstore. Random attacks have become more common and many agree that Metrotown is going downhill aka "doing Vancouver".

I hope Vancouver will continue to home these crazy on their side of the Boundary, which is where these types are coming fom the Joyce/Kingsway area social housing complexes.

https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/bu...ys-metrotown-increasingly-unsafe-3129069
https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/bu...ys-metrotown-going-downhill-fast-3889232

"These Types" ?

Pure ignorance

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Klazu

As you can guess, they were your typical white junkie scum types that stick out like a sore thumb from Metrotown demographics. People couldn't believe what they were seeing but I wish I could say this was extraordinary.

I hope the trash will find it's way back to Vancouver.

Care to explain what being white has anything to do with the decline of the use of public space?

Asking as a non-white person .

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Klazu

You sound gullible and are welcome to open your home and spare room to one of these poor souls. Let us know how that goes.

Those poor, poor souls are only seeking shelter to do drugs, run bike shops and other proceedings of property crime that is rampart in the area. One encounters shady people almost every time one goes out and this summer I witnessed a daytime robbery at Superstore. Random attacks have become more common and many agree that Metrotown is going downhill aka "doing Vancouver".

I hope Vancouver will continue to home these crazy on their side of the Boundary, which is where these types are coming fom the Joyce/Kingsway area social housing complexes.

https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/bu...ys-metrotown-increasingly-unsafe-3129069
https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/bu...ys-metrotown-going-downhill-fast-3889232

1. I have seen many people sleeping outside the station late at night and early in the morning, so I can say quite confidently that they are homeless and are seeking shelter from the elements. One person even had a one-man tent set up under a tree.
2. I wouldn't invite a stranger to sleep in my home even if they weren't homeless or on drugs or struggling with mental health issues. The homelessness has no affect on that.
3. Why would you assume that the people who sleep outside are the ones committing those violent acts? Time and again, people who own homes, have jobs, pay taxes, or do a number of other "civilized" things commit assaults, steal goods, and damage property. Blaming the homeless for all of society's problems is convenient, but it is not at all helpful.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

1. I have seen many people sleeping outside the station late at night and early in the morning, so I can say quite confidently that they are homeless and are seeking shelter from the elements. One person even had a one-man tent set up under a tree.
2. I wouldn't invite a stranger to sleep in my home even if they weren't homeless or on drugs or struggling with mental health issues. The homelessness has no affect on that.
3. Why would you assume that the people who sleep outside are the ones committing those violent acts? Time and again, people who own homes, have jobs, pay taxes, or do a number of other "civilized" things commit assaults, steal goods, and damage property. Blaming the homeless for all of society's problems is convenient, but it is not at all helpful.

Is it then just a coincidence that an increase in homelessness happens at the same time as public disorderliness, drug addiction and crime? I wonder why people simply can't face the truth.

I hope the Burnaby RCMP can do a better job than VPD. Only time can tell.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Vin

Is it then just a coincidence that an increase in homelessness happens at the same time as public disorderliness, drug addiction and crime? I wonder why people simply can't face the truth.

It's the nonsense of someone eternally being a victim. In this imaginary land, some social groups can never do wrong, as they are just victims of a cruel society that dares to provide them only with free housing, food, transit passes, cell phones and soon drugs. And since they are the real victims, all actions including crime are justified, as these poor souls are just temporarily down on their luck, working hard on their resume to secure a job to pay back society its support.

There are no real homeless left in Vancouver. So much free housing has been built that the only ones remaining on the street are those declining any free housing, as it requires a minimum compliance to simple rules, like no drugs. This has been repeated time and time again on news stories following a tent city being dismantled.

[SeymourDrake]

I laugh when certain members claim they know exactly what's going on. Like why there are hardly any big drug busts in the lower mainland. Ever wonder why stolen bikes get more press than drug related news? When drug news makes it to the headlines it's hardly ever in BC.

The entire News Cycle is by design.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Klazu

It's the nonsense of someone eternally being a victim.

This is ironic because there are victims on both sides. What about the business owners who move out of downtown and blame crime and homelessness, without admitting the business model sucked, market demand has changed, or they mismanaged their business?

I have no doubt that vandalism or theft is a pain for any business owner/operator, but I can guarantee that all of the businesses that are remaining downtown are doing so because the benefits outweigh the costs.

I would also question whether the free housing you are fawning over would be considered adequate for anyone other than a homeless person. A roof with a number of strings attached and with restricted autonomy may be worse than no roof at all.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by SeymourDrake

I laugh when certain members claim they know exactly what's going on. Like why there are hardly any big drug busts in the lower mainland. Ever wonder why stolen bikes get more press than drug related news? When drug news makes it to the headlines it's hardly ever in BC.

The entire News Cycle is by design.

Drugs smuggling + sales = money = real estate = major source of government revenue + GDP

High profile politicians and stakeholders rely off this interconnected drug network.

If you start the war on drugs, you pretty much deplete government resources (RCMP and judicial system), risk countless lives (officers) and fuck up the economy.

On the flipside, this is why nothing gets done with regards to homelessness and crime. It depletes too many resources and puts pressure on government officials to prosecute those responsible for selling drugs. This is not what they want.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

On the flipside, this is why nothing gets done with regards to homelessness and crime. It depletes too many resources and puts pressure on government officials to prosecute those responsible for selling drugs. This is not what they want.

So, legalize and regulate?

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

So, legalize and regulate?

It's already been legalized. Free drugs are being handed out and being done out in the open without resistance. People always crave the harder stuff. Very much like the legal weed, stuff on the grey market is highly desired since it's fresher and more potent.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

This is ironic because there are victims on both sides. What about the business owners who move out of downtown and blame crime and homelessness, without admitting the business model sucked, market demand has changed, or they mismanaged their business?

I don't live in Vancouver but have seen the same thing happen in other cities - it's a bit fishy when businesses that were doing just fine before, start struggling and eventually close around the same time as mayhem increases on the streets outside and drives customers away.

Such a mysterious correlation, eh?

[rofina]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

This is ironic because there are victims on both sides. What about the business owners who move out of downtown and blame crime and homelessness, without admitting the business model sucked, market demand has changed, or they mismanaged their business?

I'm sure that happens, but unsure of the relevance.

It doesn't change the conditions of Downtown.

I have no doubt that vandalism or theft is a pain for any business owner/operator, but I can guarantee that all of the businesses that are remaining downtown are doing so because the benefits outweigh the costs.

For now. In San Francisco even the corporates are starting to close up locations because the risk/reward is no longer in favor.

Are we waiting for a time when Downtown looks like March 2020 before we actually think there's an issue?

I realize that everyone has different red lines and thresholds, but I feel that waiting for Downtown to become a no-go zone before we collectively agree a different approach is needed is a long time to wait without taking action.

I would also question whether the free housing you are fawning over would be considered adequate for anyone other than a homeless person. A roof with a number of strings attached and with restricted autonomy may be worse than no roof at all.

This is reality - things come with strings attached, especially when those things are free. Everything in my reality and yours is strings attached. You think any of these folks could live under strata rules?
That's a rhetorical question; I have been in plenty of BC Housing buildings, 9/10 residents would get fined to the Moon in back had they lived in a Strata.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Klazu

It's the nonsense of someone eternally being a victim. In this imaginary land, some social groups can never do wrong, as they are just victims of a cruel society that dares to provide them only with free housing, food, transit passes, cell phones and soon drugs. And since they are the real victims, all actions including crime are justified, as these poor souls are just temporarily down on their luck, working hard on their resume to secure a job to pay back society its support.

There are no real homeless left in Vancouver. So much free housing has been built that the only ones remaining on the street are those declining any free housing, as it requires a minimum compliance to simple rules, like no drugs. This has been repeated time and time again on news stories following a tent city being dismantled.

Indeed. And I suppose whenever I walk by social housing and seeing scores of people bending over getting high or passed out in front those buildings, I must be seeing out-of-luck folks waiting for their resumes to be pored over by companies with good reputation intent on hiring them.

Big question is, why must we put good old folks whom we think are not able to take care of themselves in retirement homes while we let hardcore addicts live freely in free housing and do whatever they want?

[jlousa]

Owner of SMAK which just closed it's 3 locations downtown this week had this to say. It wasn't the main reason for the close down, Covid was, but the "public disorder" factored in as well.

Why the hell would anybody go to downtown Vancouver right now?'
Besides downtown's office or hospitality workers, Ladner says it's become more and more unappealing for locals to spend time in the downtown core.

"Why the hell would anybody go to downtown Vancouver right now?" asks Ladner. An avid cyclist and a parent of two young children, the businessman says he doesn't feel safe cycling with his kids in the city despite the increase in bike lanes. In general, safety is an issue, he says.

Contributing to the lack of "locals coming [to downtown] for leisure," is, in part, so much open drug use, notes Ladner, describing the picnic table outside Smak's Pender Street outpost as a "crack table."
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/f...ations-4548662

"I don't mean to criminalize mental health and poverty — it's a much bigger issue," he says, adding Smak has had to contend with rising vandalism, shootings, theft and threats against staff.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

This is ironic because there are victims on both sides. What about the business owners who move out of downtown and blame crime and homelessness, without admitting the business model sucked, market demand has changed, or they mismanaged their business?

I'm sure you are referring to those business owners who fled Downtown Eastside neighbourhood back in the days? Hastings Street used to be the main retail thoroughfare of Vancouver, and now there are almost no retail businesses left operating from the stretch from Abbott Street to Chinatown. If what you say is true, wouldn't many businesses with "good business model that don't suck" thrive over there by now? Things at hand can't be further from the truth.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

It's already been legalized. Free drugs are being handed out and being done out in the open without resistance. People always crave the harder stuff. Very much like the legal weed, stuff on the grey market is highly desired since it's fresher and more potent.

Those are being done as publicity stunts. It's not the same thing at all.

[rofina]

I was his customer - but I don't bother going Downtown unless its an absolute work necessity, which I try to limit as much as possible because of what an inconvenience DT has become.

Its funny, because people really want to discount that point of view as hysterical or untruthful. Despite myself being an anecdote of what is causing closures of places like SMAK; DT is not that desirable at the moment and unless forced by work many are avoiding it.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Those are being done as publicity stunts. It's not the same thing at all.

The next generation safe supply lab and safe use site is coming online imminently.

We will be handing out clean, free drugs by Q1 2022.

Nothing will change - except perhaps less OD's.

[harryc]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

It's already been legalized. Free drugs are being handed out and being done out in the open without resistance. People always crave the harder stuff. Very much like the legal weed, stuff on the grey market is highly desired since it's fresher and more potent.

Odd that is not the case here in Illinois - price is an issue, but not potency or quality.