[Burnaby] Metropolis at Metrotown Redevelopment (Downtown Burnaby)

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Not to speak for him, but in my own view, looking at their proposal, the combination of eliminating the bus loop and seemingly narrowing Central Blvd. at the same time (i.e. getting rid of a lane each side if those renders are to be read correctly), is what won't work, I think.
Or at least, I don't see how.

Just noticed that they seem to have buses cutting across under the guideway near the station and looping back on Beresford. Seems like it's an express bus lane coming from Willingdon and then maybe they all stop on the other side.

https://metropolismasterplan.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/View-03-R3.jpg

https://metropolismasterplan.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Streetscape-At-Plaza-1.jpg

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Although Ivanhoe's a little optimistic in thinking TransLink will give up the bus loop without at least a 1:1 replacement - and no, an on-street "interchange" does not count.

Back when I went to the BC Parkway meetings (a long time ago now) Burnaby was also against moving the bus loop - they wanted to keep Beresford as a local street.

These new plans show some of the streets travelling from Kingsway through where the mall currently is, through the BC Parkway and on into the Maywood neighbourhood. Unless attitudes have changed (which is possible) then I suspect that's going to get a hard NO from the city.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Vin

Metrotown will never be the same without its large indoor mall.

Exactly. You are finally catching on to what proper urbanism should look like. Good for you.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Back when I went to the BC Parkway meetings (a long time ago now) Burnaby was also against moving the bus loop - they wanted to keep Beresford as a local street.

These new plans show some of the streets travelling from Kingsway through where the mall currently is, through the BC Parkway and on into the Maywood neighbourhood. Unless attitudes have changed (which is possible) then I suspect that's going to get a hard NO from the city.

Sounds like they'll keep the bus loop with a temporary relocation (if Translink/City agree)

While the development is under construction, the Metrotown bus loop will have to be moved, but the developers said those plans are currently in the hands of TransLink and the City of Burnaby.

They also clarified what the local mobility hubs were:

The mobility hubs would be a central place for locals to catch their car-share rides, food delivery, or even pick-up and drop-off of self-driving cars, according to Maxime Allaire, Ivanhoé’s director of asset management, retail.

The hubs would also include parking for bicycles and micro-mobility like e-scooters and e-bikes.

“This is where we’re trying to concentrate people coming in from those (transportation modes) and then dropping those things off and walking from there,” Allaire said.

Unit numbers:

With seven parcels of land, the developer plans to build in phases, beginning with 15 new buildings in Phase 1 from 2025 through 2054.

Phase 1 of the development, over the next 30 years, proposes around 10,000 market units and 2,000 affordable rental units, the developer told the Burnaby NOW.

“It’ll be a great mix of retail and residential eventually and we hope to see even more people come to the mall … with a more pedestrian feeling within a great enclosed mall that people are going to be able to come on rainy days,” Bourgon said, adding people were happy to hear part of the mall will be renewed.

https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/12...ive-metrotown-mall-redevelopment-8581482

[jollyburger]

I wonder if Revery is involved in the Metrotown Redevelopment.

Cyclist & Pedestrian Bridge Burnaby - Concept Design 2022

The Gateway to Metrotown creates a floating landscape between the road and the Skytrain tracks, with the idea of giving pedestrians and cyclists a continuous and safe journey, away from traffic and traffic lights.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C5eEFfbR3mx/?g=5&img_index=1

EDIT: Nevermind part of the Burnaby Parkway planning design

https://www.burnaby.ca/our-city/projects/bc-parkway-enhancement-project

[BaddieB]

I hate it whenever they design bike infrastructure, like in the photo above, that it takes the most windy, convoluted, indirect route possible. The people want straight direct routes, not this BS. People who don't commute by bike should be disqualified from designing bike infrastructure I swear.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by logan5

Exactly. You are finally catching on to what proper urbanism should look like. Good for you.

What? lol.

Mind you, I'm not giving up on the indoor mall, when many here favour the outdoor retail style which you most likely prefer.

[madog222]

From the Burnaby Updates thread.

Originally Posted by officedweller

June 12, 2024
Stantec designing master plan for Metropolis at Metrotown
https://www.stantec.com/en/news/2024/stantec-designing-master-plan-metropolis-metrotown


https://www.stantec.com/en/news/2024/stantec-designing-master-plan-metropolis-metrotown


https://www.stantec.com/en/news/2024/stantec-designing-master-plan-metropolis-metrotown

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

terrible. too many roads. no overpass to SkyTrain.

what a waste.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

terrible. too many roads. no overpass to SkyTrain.

what a waste.

Exactly. Half those roads should be covered arcades and promenades, and a direct connection to the skytrain station.

[GenWhy?]

Half the roads around the proposed new park are likely redundant.

It's kinda like Silver Dr. If you need that many bollards something isn't right. The whole road, while narrow with parking and carries little traffic, is kind of redundant. Assembly way doesn't need to connect as the parkade entrances can be accessed directly via McKay and Station.

Not to mention the sidewalk isn't that wide and couldn't support a patio. Cactus' is basically enclosed and faces a lovely parkade ramp.

[BaddieB]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

no overpass to SkyTrain.

An overpass wouldnt be needed if we just pedestrianized Central Blvd in front of the station (bus only)

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

The Daily Hive has a more extensive write-up and some more images and renderings of the proposed plan by Ivanhoe C.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/metropol...#vf-f7baaea2-bd81-4e8f-9d4a-e204890bedf6

Sussex Ave should be a pedestrian street straight through the site to Kingsway. Activate the shit out of it with retail at grade.

Every tower except the one grafted onto the mall would still have an address on a public street (that tower might have to go, but it wouldn't be hard to redistribute its density across the site). Expand the Neighbourhood Park by truncating the new street above it the so that it is a glorified left-in, right-out driveway for the towers on that block. Extend the design of the Neighbourhood Park into Sussex Ave so it reads as part of the park, while obviously maintaining adequate hardscaping, dedicated cycling facilities, and emergency vehicle access. Same for Watershed Plaza and Mountainview Plaza. Extend their design language into Sussex Ave.

Boom. You have a neighbourhood-defining public realm that is also actually highly useful, providing the long-desired direct ped connection to SkyTrain from Kingsway without impacting overall development capacity, and it provides the ability to expand the three major open spaces proposed in the concept.

[Spr0ckets]

I'm still not seeing where they're dumping the Bus Loop/Exchange to - especially if those southern towers are to work where they are.

Also, it looks like bye-bye Superstore and the likes of T&T/Walmart?

(I'm guessing those are some of the long-term mid-2050's leases they're waiting out to run out before they can begin those phases of the redevelopment.)

[Vin]

Originally Posted by logan5

Exactly. You are finally catching on to what proper urbanism should look like. Good for you.

You are always so fickle in your view of urbanism, so I don't really get what you are referring to.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

I'm still not seeing where they're dumping the Bus Loop/Exchange to - especially if those southern towers are to work where they are.

I assume the plan is still for it to be replaced with more bus bays on either side of the station.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by madog222

I assume the plan is still for it to be replaced with more bus bays on either side of the station.

On which side of Central Blvd.?

That rendering seems to indicate their plan is to create some sort of urban park underneath the Skytrain guideway (probably in keeping with the city's plan to develop that area of the BC Parkway greenway and the underside of the tracks along with it.)

The City's plan originally was for Beresford street to be converted into a sort of pedestrain Artwalk rather than have any sort of Transit traffic on it - with vehicular traffic limited only to local and residence cars.
(previous renders have seemed to imply that the bus bays would be relocated just south of the skytrain tracks.
I don't see how these two plans are in any way compatible).

In addition (......and I know these are only conceptual renders. So grain of salt and all....), the renders also seem to imply a plan to reduce Central Blvd. down to a two-lane street with the other lanes converted to street parking or a bikeway rather than Bus bays or a bus stops.
Again,.....also doesn't seem to make sense.

If the plan is to have the bus loop be a linear loop with the buses and bays linearly aligned along either side of Central - versus the compacted bays they currently have in one spot at the current location- then you're either going to need a hell of a lot more street to accommodate both the stops and the bays necessary, or Translink will have to reduce the number of bus routes that use that loop as a stop to minimize the need for bays or you end up with bays and stops running from Willlingdon or Wilson from the west all the way to Bonsor Park or Imperial in the east.

Also, what happens with all the regular vehicular traffic that currently uses Central Blvd. with the reduced lanes?
on most days Central Blvd. is almost just as busy as Kingsway with vehicle traffic.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

It's kinda like Silver Dr. If you need that many bollards something isn't right.

Everytime I walk down Silver Drive the traffic situation drives me crazy. There is absolutely no reason for cars to be routed down that alley, and it hardly saves a driver anytime to cut from the parkade entrance by Cactus to Kingsway given the slow speed limit and stop sign at Assembly. Plus turning onto Kingsway from Silver is dangerous because to not block the sidewalk and bike lane you need to be so far back from the road it is difficult to see the road. And highspeed turns from Kingsway onto Silver are also very dangerous considering the pedestrian volumes on Kingsway.

All of Silver could have been pedestrian space. In the winter a temporary canvas covering of the street could be installed, making it useful even in rainy months. Live music, street fares, farmers markets, and more could have activated that street. Instead it functions as a piss-poor shortcut for drivers.

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Also, it looks like bye-bye Superstore and the likes of T&T/Walmart?

If the downtown Costco can fit in the podium of a tower, I don't know why Superstore couldn't do the same here. But yes, it's bye-bye to the sprawling suburban style layout of Superstore.

It almost looks like Walmart and T&T could be maintained as-is in the layout madog shared.

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

OAlso, what happens with all the regular vehicular traffic that currently uses Central Blvd. with the reduced lanes?
on most days Central Blvd. is almost just as busy as Kingsway with vehicle traffic.

Something about induced demand would work well here.

But traffic on Central falls into two categories: traffic avoiding going the long way 'round via Kingsway or Imperial and traffic accessing the parkade entrances by the station and Walmart. If those parkades were eliminated or accessed from elsewhere, traffic volumes would drop significantly. As for the traffic cutting through, it already clogs up Imperial, Willingdon, and Kingsway since Central terminates eventually. So I don't think this is akin to eliminating some major parallel alternative and wouldn't result in carmagedone or anything.

[urbanight93]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Sussex Ave should be a pedestrian street straight through the site to Kingsway. Activate the shit out of it with retail at grade.

Every tower except the one grafted onto the mall would still have an address on a public street (that tower might have to go, but it wouldn't be hard to redistribute its density across the site). Expand the Neighbourhood Park by truncating the new street above it the so that it is a glorified left-in, right-out driveway for the towers on that block. Extend the design of the Neighbourhood Park into Sussex Ave so it reads as part of the park, while obviously maintaining adequate hardscaping, dedicated cycling facilities, and emergency vehicle access. Same for Watershed Plaza and Mountainview Plaza. Extend their design language into Sussex Ave.

Boom. You have a neighbourhood-defining public realm that is also actually highly useful, providing the long-desired direct ped connection to SkyTrain from Kingsway without impacting overall development capacity, and it provides the ability to expand the three major open spaces proposed in the concept.

I like this idea to make Sussex the main pedestrian connection and focus street originating from the station. It would serve multi-purposes, connecting the skytrain to the mall, creating a vibrant and central spine that is a visible and intuitive link / welcome entrance to the mall and improving accessibility between Kingsway and Central Blvd.

My issue with the plan as is is that it feels like different quadrants and ideas without a coherent strategy beyond throwing in a bunch of plazas and trying to create a continuous road network. I wish they'd take the planning a step further but perhaps this is just because it's very conceptual / early stages.

Not to bring Haussman into this but the main tenets of Paris's urban renewal in the late 1800s seem very much applicable to Metrotown; including giving the area air and open space, connect and unify the different parts into one whole, and beautify in the process. I wish they would take some inspiration from major destinations and their successful urban planning principles for place-making and public realm as opposed to be so local in their thinking (i.e. stricly Vancouverism).

Maybe i'm getting ahead of myself.

[jollyburger]

The DH article says it's going to the street

"An on-street bus exchange next to SkyTrain Metrotown Station is anticipated to replace the existing bus loop."

I guess the bus loop requirements might change as the SFU gondola and other projects get built. Maybe the RapidBus buses would drop off here and more local buses might take other routes that aren't right beside the station.