YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion - Page 640

LeftCoaster · #**12781** Posted **Apr 2, 2018, 9:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

Actually, when YVR passes ORD this year it will be short lived as ORD has been embarking on a massive rebuild which so far has included:

YVR is also just embarking on a very large expansion. This expansion will be well timed to the delivery of WestJet's 789s and a likely expansion of the Canada/Chinese bilateral allowing for a continuation of growth. I'm not so sure ORD will just waltz in and take the crown back so easily.

LeftCoaster · #**12782** Posted **Apr 2, 2018, 9:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Rouge 767s will completely exit YVR. Expect to see changes to DUB, NGO and KIX next year. Either mainline or the chopper.

Quoting longhauler from airliners.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1389793

I do hope they rethink that plan. While Rouge is not an ideal product it has been great to grow routes that otherwise would not exist. The benefit of moving routes like Dublin and Osaka to mainline pale in comparison to the benefits of opening up and maturing new routes with Rouge. I seriously question whether Osaka would be a mainline route in 2019 were it not a Rouge route to begin with.

Fingers crossed a 767 or two remain in YVR, or at least rotate through to open up routes like LIM, CTS, BER or BCN.

SFUVancouver · #**12783** Posted **Apr 2, 2018, 10:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

YVR is also just embarking on a very large expansion. This expansion will be well timed to the delivery of WestJet's 789s and a likely expansion of the Canada/Chinese bilateral allowing for a continuation of growth. I'm not so sure ORD will just waltz in and take the crown back so easily.

Westjet and Air Canada are also in the midst of narrow body fleet renewal & expansion programs that densify cabins, so the available seat numbers will go up for existing routes even as new ones are added.

Excited to see what the coming years hold.

Jebby · #**12784** Posted **Apr 2, 2018, 10:34 PM**

Hadn't seen this posted yet:

Quote:

WestJet launches direct flights from YVR to Mexico City

....

WestJet will begin with three flights per week from Vancouver to Mexico City, but by April 29 will move to a daily service. The airline is also providing new direct flights from Calgary to Mexico City.

http://www.richmond-news.com/news/westje...ights-from-yvr-to-mexico-city-1.23202809

LeftCoaster · #**12785** Posted **Apr 2, 2018, 10:47 PM**

Yep, was posted back in January.

5 carriers on YVR-MEX, pretty nuts after just AC for years.

trofirhen · #**12786** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 1:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I do hope they rethink that plan. While Rouge is not an ideal product it has been great to grow routes that otherwise would not exist. The benefit of moving routes like Dublin and Osaka to mainline pale in comparison to the benefits of opening up and maturing new routes with Rouge. I seriously question whether Osaka would be a mainline route in 2019 were it not a Rouge route to begin with.

Fingers crossed a 767 or two remain in YVR, or at least rotate through to open up routes like LIM, CTS, BER or BCN.

Pleased to see one South American destination in your list, even if its seasonal. As far as Barcelona (BCN) Norwegian has a hub there.
I'd love to see Norwegian do a summer seasonal from YVR, if only for those snazzy red 789s ! .... Neh! Ottawa would block that.

excel · #**12787** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 1:56 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebby

Hadn't seen this posted yet:

Are you going to come visit us?

Alpine · #**12788** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 2:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname

According to airliners.net, YVR-IST by TK will be announced anytime now

Some additional info I gleaned from the A.net thread: Turkish is starting SEA-IST sometime in 2019. It'll be 3x weekly 787-9. In addition, Transport Canada/AC are offering TK 3x weekly slots to Vancouver. If all goes to plan, TK will start 3x weekly IST-YVR service using 777-300ER as early as spring 2019.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1385167&p=20248287&hilit=yvr+turkish#p20248287

Apparently user CPA62 was told by the Turkish Airlines general sales agent (in Toronto, perhaps?) about the spring 2019 start date.

Great news on the WS to MEX front; not even a couple of years ago I don't think there were any Vancouver-Mexico flights outside of the sun and sand tourist/charter flights that run November-April. The more flight connections to our NAFTA allies, the better I say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I do hope they rethink that plan. While Rouge is not an ideal product it has been great to grow routes that otherwise would not exist. The benefit of moving routes like Dublin and Osaka to mainline pale in comparison to the benefits of opening up and maturing new routes with Rouge. I seriously question whether Osaka would be a mainline route in 2019 were it not a Rouge route to begin with.

Fingers crossed a 767 or two remain in YVR, or at least rotate through to open up routes like LIM, CTS, BER or BCN.

I wonder if the dominance of the Shinkansen has something to do with it. Out of the 30.1 million trips between the Tokyo and Nagoya areas in 2015-16, only about 600,000 or so were by plane; Shinkansen has a 92.9% market share in that corridor (calculated from this spreadsheet of Japanese government data and some fiddling in Excel). Maybe direct flights to NGO just can't compete with mainline flights to NRT/HND and taking a Shinkansen to Nagoya. The same thing happened to HND-SDJ flights after the Tohoku Shinkansen started in 1982. And now, with the Hokkaido Shinkansen crossing the Seikan Tunnel and reaching Hakodate, the HND-AOJ (JAL used to fly 6x roundtrips daily between Haneda and Aomori) and HND-HKD markets have vanished; why fly when you can take the train directly? Currently, Haneda-New Chitose (Sapporo) is the busiest airline route in the world; wait until the Hokkaido Shinkansen reaches Sapporo in 2031 and you might see the Haneda-Sapporo route shrink dramatically.

casper · #**12789** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 3:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine

Great news on the WS to MEX front; not even a couple of years ago I don't think there were any Vancouver-Mexico flights outside of the sun and sand tourist/charter flights that run November-April. The more flight connections to our NAFTA allies, the better I say.

Historically it was operated as a tag-on by Japan Airlines. At times it would have been a 747, the originated in Tokyo, stopped in Vancouver and continued to Mexico City a few days of the week. I believe that came to an end when JAL run into financial problems and downsized quite a bit.

trofirhen · #**12790** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 4:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine

Some additional info I gleaned from the A.net thread: Turkish is starting SEA-IST sometime in 2019. It'll be 3x weekly 787-9. In addition, Transport Canada/AC are offering TK 3x weekly slots to Vancouver. If all goes to plan, TK will start 3x weekly IST-YVR service using 777-300ER as early as spring 2019.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1385167&p=20248287&hilit=yvr+turkish#p20248287

Apparently user CPA62 was told by the Turkish Airlines general sales agent (in Toronto, perhaps?) about the spring 2019 start date. /please excuse editing

Really? Interesting (about the different metal, too), but ........
I looked that up on airliners.net, and it seems TK is being urealistically pushy, demanding YVR-IST 5x a week (which they'll never get), if not they'll start SEA-IST 3x a week.
And turn down YVR or get locked out.
Why be so dumb? Take the money and run. As I understand, they are offered 3x / week at both YVR and SEA. So why not get your foot in tjhe door at YVR while you can, TK?
Or did I read it wrong? Please correct me if I did. Thank you.

thenoflyzone · #**12791** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 1:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

As far as Barcelona (BCN) Norwegian has a hub there.
I'd love to see Norwegian do a summer seasonal from YVR, if only for those snazzy red 789s ! .... Neh! Ottawa would block that.

Canada and the European Union have an open skies type agreement. If Norwegian so wished, they could launch triple daily BCN-YVR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

5 carriers on YVR-MEX, pretty nuts after just AC for years.

...only 4 have local traffic rights on YVR-MEX.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Fingers crossed a 767 or two remain in YVR, or at least rotate through to open up routes like LIM, CTS, BER or BCN.

Doesn't look likely.

trofirhen · #**12792** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 4:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Canada and the European Union have an open skies type agreement. If Norwegian so wished, they could launch triple daily BCN-YVR.

Please excuse a slight correction on this.
As Norway (and Norwegian itself) are in the Schengen zone, they are not members of the EU (although they have an office in Ireland) they are not free to start up service freely
as is France or Germany etc. There's a "snag," if you will, that complicates this process.

And of course, Turkey is not in the EU at all, so an ameneded Canada-Turkey would have to be made, and Ottawa would never give them 5x / week to YVR, which they want.
Sad to think of YVR losing out on the IST run to Seattle.
That will give SEA two ME destinations, whereas YVR has none - yet.

Lancaster · #**12793** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 5:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Please excuse a slight correction on this.
As Norway (and Norwegian itself) are in the Schengen zone, they are not members of the EU (although they have an office in Ireland) they are not free to start up service freely as is France or Germany etc. There's a "snag," if you will, that complicates this process.

Wait, what? I am 100% percent sure that Norwegian is a company registered and operating in the EU.

Quote:

Sad to think of YVR losing out on the IST run to Seattle.
That will give SEA two ME destinations, whereas YVR has none - yet.

Call me crazy but I am okay with this. YVR benefits from being insulated from ME carriers. If TK were already here it is probably unlikely AC DEL would have been as successful as it has been.

jollyburger · #**12794** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 6:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancaster

Wait, what? I am 100% percent sure that Norwegian is a company registered and operating in the EU.

It's not an office.

Norwegian Air International is an Ireland based subsidiary.

deasine · #**12795** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 6:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancaster

Wait, what? I am 100% percent sure that Norwegian is a company registered and operating in the EU.

It's a bit complicated but there is some misinformation in previous posts.

Norway is not a member of the European Union, but is part of the Schengen, European Single Market (through EFTA), and Single European Skies. Various memberships require Norway to also pass relevant laws within Norway that support European policies. However, laws only apply to mainland Norway and not its territories (e.g. Svalbard).

So, any bilaterals with the European Union extend to Norway and Iceland, and thus regulations and obligations apply to companies registered in those areas, but it needs to be ratified first. Norwegian, and any of its current subsidiaries (with the exception of Norwegian Argentina) have the legal right to fly between Canada and any of the European Union cities.

Norwegian International is a vehicle for Norwegian to take advantage of lower cost base and looser business regulations in Ireland. It's similar to SAS Ireland, which ironically doesn't have any Irish presence as its operating bases at Heathrow and Malaga.

Norwegian has previously applied for various licenses and applications with Transport Canada in the past.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancaster

Call me crazy but I am okay with this. YVR benefits from being insulated from ME carriers. If TK were already here it is probably unlikely AC DEL would have been as successful as it has been.

Not too sure about this one: AC has definitely benefited from insulation but not necessarily YVR itself. The airport authority likely has more to gain from more carriers (and charges), and the market would have more to gain from increased competition driving down ticket prices. Plus, the market would have significantly increased options for one-stop connectivity throughout the Middle East/Central Asia.

trofirhen · #**12796** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 6:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

It's not an office.

Norwegian Air International is an Ireland based subsidiary.

Does that mean they are free to operate to Canada, or is there a restriction?
A YVR - BCN summer run would, it seems, be profitable, as this is apparently the most underserved European route from YVR.

jollyburger · #**12797** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 6:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Does that mean they are free to operate to Canada, or is there a restriction?
A YVR - BCN summer run would, it seems, be profitable, as this is apparently the most underserved European route from YVR.

"Norwegian Air International is a Dublin-based unit of Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA, which gives it the ability to take advantage of the Canada-EU open-skies treaty.

The Canadian Transportation Agency said in a ruling last week that there is "a high probability" Norwegian will be issued a licence in time for its proposed startup date of July 23."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o...ghts-on-canadian-market/article38271813/

trofirhen · #**12798** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 7:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

"Norwegian Air International is a Dublin-based unit of Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA, which gives it the ability to take advantage of the Canada-EU open-skies treaty.

The Canadian Transportation Agency said in a ruling last week that there is "a high probability" Norwegian will be issued a licence in time for its proposed startup date of July 23."

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o...ghts-on-canadian-market/article38271813/

Thank you. A positive step forward, but does that mean Norwegian coming to YVR? Ususally these things tend to concern YYZ a whole lot more - perhaps understandably so.

LeftCoaster · #**12799** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 10:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

...only 4 have local traffic rights on YVR-MEX.

Either way a pretty huge jump.

I'm sure CZ would be selling tickets on the YVR-MEX leg if the Canadian govt would allow them to as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Thank you. A positive step forward, but does that mean Norwegian coming to YVR? Ususally these things tend to concern YYZ a whole lot more - perhaps understandably so.

As far as I remember these were for 737MAX flights to eastern Canada, particularly the maritimes. Could be expanded to flights to YVR im sure, but not really what the intent is so far.

thenoflyzone · #**12800** Posted **Apr 3, 2018, 11:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Thank you. A positive step forward, but does that mean Norwegian coming to YVR? Ususally these things tend to concern YYZ a whole lot more - perhaps understandably so.

YHM will apparently be first to get Norwegian (D8) service.

The company has said they are studying the possibility of launching YUL/YQB-FDF/PTP service as well, as BWI-FDF/PTP didn't do too good, and was already canceled. PVD-FDF/PTP struggled as well.

I wouldn't hold my breath re. Norwegian. They are burning cash faster than that wildfire burnt through Fort Mac.....

Not sustainable. Low cost long haul still hasn't proven itself.

https://centreforaviation.com/insights/a...d-to-profits-yet-it-needs-to-soon-400804