Twinning route 7 at this point would be a big waste of money. As others have said, the traffic counts don't justify it, and I think that whatever deficiencies this creates exist mostly in the fantasies of people who want it twinned.
The money that would be spent on this project would do a lot more good in fixing and maintaining existing roads and/or enhancing transportation infrastructure within Fredericton and Saint John proper.
There certainly are safety issues on 7 that could be resolved pretty cheaply. More and better deer fencing, wider shoulders, etc. Hell, even adding a third lane for its total length would slash travel times without the expense of constructing a whole new road.
I'm pretty resolute on the need to twin the single lane stretch of 7 near the Martinon Bypass though. 1.5km and a single overpass.
Was the explicit intent of Route 1 to meet a new US interstate? If so... wtf? Those things take decades of planning to travel through even lightly-inhabited areas, and there's NEVER been anything close to official planning or funding for an East-West Highway.
Was the explicit intent of Route 1 to meet a new US interstate? If so... wtf? Those things take decades of planning to travel through even lightly-inhabited areas, and there's NEVER been anything close to official planning or funding for an East-West Highway.
There's typically a lot of political will for building new roads. Everyone loves it when the government spends money on highways because it's seen as a tangible benefit that helps everyone regardless of whether that is actually the case.
I'm sure SOMEONE must've noticed that and done that on purpose.
It is surprising to see Freddy pass SJ like that; but it makes sense. Maybe SJ could've been smashed together a bit more, but IIRC SJ has had some bigger amalgamations in the past that it's still chewing through.
What are the new areas proposed to be added to Fredericton aka Entity 69?
There's typically a lot of political will for building new roads. Everyone loves it when the government spends money on highways because it's seen as a tangible benefit that helps everyone regardless of whether that is actually the case.
It's still pulling teeth. Between parochial concerns, environmental reviews, geological engineering, etc, there's a lot to building an interstate from concept to car.
Portions of: Kingsclear, Saint Mary’s, Estey’s Bridge, Douglas, Rusagonis-Wasis and Lincoln.
I was hoping Fredericton would merge all of Lincoln so we can finally have transit service to the airport.
Apparently the airport is part of Lincoln we're getting, so using the airport as the end of a transit route is feasible. Whether they expand the Lincoln line there and/or expand service to Lincoln will have to be seen.
I've long said that using Regent as a proper secondary hub with routes to Lincoln, New Maryland and Hanwell would probably be something Freddy Transit should work towards (along with a route to Oromocto; possibly via the Lincoln route). Granted since most of those routes would go outside city limits, the city would have to make sharing agreements and arrange for a Capital Transit system to cover the communities.
It's still pulling teeth. Between parochial concerns, environmental reviews, geological engineering, etc, there's a lot to building an interstate from concept to car.
Right, I was more referring to the justification for twinning route 1 in the first place.
It's kind of funny that beyond the clickbait headline, Jones actually doesn't do the full math to determine the exact impact of the boundary changes on Entity 69's population or the precise timing of the change in ranking, instead relying on qualified statements like "is likely to overtake Saint John" and "almost certain to take over as New Brunswick's second-largest city". Of course, a full accounting exercise would require some spatial analysis of the exact areas being annexed, the proportion of LSD population in those sub-areas and details on their growth rates.
Perhaps predictably, the main result of this article being published was another tri-city flame war on social media, and another opportunity for the SJ haters and doomsayers to come out of the woodwork
Looking at CMA level data, which is the better indicator of a community's overall size, greater Fredericton isn't likely to overtake greater SJ until the mid-2030s, based on an analysis I did in this thread a couple years ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fischbob
Here's a look at how the 3 metros have grown since 2006:
Overall during this period, greater Moncton grew by around 22k, Fredericton by 15.5k and Saint John by just under 4k with a few years of decline between 2011 and 2015. In percentage terms, Moncton and Fredericton had very similar growth rates (16.9% and 16.7% respectively) from 2006-2018, with Saint John coming in with a rate of 3.1%.
Averaging the rates above to annual growth rates, I extrapolated the CMA/CA populations out over the next 20 years:
So if we assume the same long-term growth rates that we've seen over the past dozen years, greater Fredericton passes greater Saint John around 2035.
Of course, a lot can change in that amount of time
The above extrapolation may look different if we were to include more recent population estimates in the calculations. Perhaps I'll update the analysis if I have some time in the near future.
__________________ “The street is the river of life of the city, the place where we come together, the pathway to the center.” –William H. Whyte
“Forget the damned motor car and build the cities for lovers and friends.” –Lewis Mumford
I'm all for this as it makes complete sense. It's not like you can live self-contained in any of those communities. All of the aforementioned rely entirely on Fredericton businesses and Fredericton services. If you were to ask, I'd wager 90%+ of the residents would state that they are from Fredericton. For all intents and purposes, they are a member of our community and should be treated the same. Eliminating unnecessary duplication saves money plus it gives a more accurate picture of the City's true size. IMO Hanwell and New Maryland should be lumped in as well. Oromocto is the only debatable residual.
Oromocto will remain mostly independent for awhile. It is a legit town (with its own mall, multiple grocery stores, department stores and services; hell I'd dare say it's within a decade or so of its own Walmart), and it has the Base to be a major employer to keep commuting to Freddy down.
That said, now that Freddy will have the airport, and its borders will go right up to Oromocto, that should help the commuting pattern stats shift towards bringing Oromocto into the CMA, even with CFB Gagetown offsetting things. It'll probably always remain its own town, but Stats-wise it'll be in the Freddy CMA.
And yeah, Hanwell and New Maryland should very much have been folded into the City; but I suspect there isn't quite the political will yet to wage that battle. It'll happen eventually, but probably not until the next round of Municipal reforms, probably 20+ years from now.
I'm all for this as it makes complete sense. It's not like you can live self-contained in any of those communities. All of the aforementioned rely entirely on Fredericton businesses and Fredericton services. If you were to ask, I'd wager 90%+ of the residents would state that they are from Fredericton. For all intents and purposes, they are a member of our community and should be treated the same. Eliminating unnecessary duplication saves money plus it gives a more accurate picture of the City's true size. IMO Hanwell and New Maryland should be lumped in as well. Oromocto is the only debatable residual.
Gonna take issue with the bolded sections. No way people outside a municipality say they're from there. Never heard of that happening in any NB locale- people still say they're from Nashwaaksis, Lancaster, etc, even if they were born after the town was amalgamated away. Can't imagine someone from Lincoln already saying they're Frederictonian.
Secondly, how big and rural do you want Fredericton to be? Saint John is literally a cautionary tale of a city biting off much more than it could chew and being stuck with a giant hinterland and miles of surplus infrastructure has haunted us for fifty years.
Gonna take issue with the bolded sections. No way people outside a municipality say they're from there. Never heard of that happening in any NB locale- people still say they're from Nashwaaksis, Lancaster, etc, even if they were born after the town was amalgamated away. Can't imagine someone from Lincoln already saying they're Frederictonian.
Depends on who they're talking to. If you're in Ontario and someone asks where you're from you're probably saying Fredericton.
I can confirm that numerous trees on the NE corner of Brookside and Ring have been shredded during the past few days and land has been staked. Obvious they are getting ready for the round-about.
Update: Trees have now been removed from all four corners @Ring and Brookside. DoT was onsite this aft. They are definitely preparing for the new round-about. Capital budget will be released by Province within the next two weeks so expect to see something about a Spring construction start
All this talk about creating 'super-Fredericton' misses the point. Boundary and municipality counts are a red herring. The changes to the RSC level of governance is the real powerhouse of the white paper. Collaboration on items, especially regional recreation services, is what cities have been requesting for years, and the population based voting is going to deliver.
All this talk about creating 'super-Fredericton' misses the point. Boundary and municipality counts are a red herring. The changes to the RSC level of governance is the real powerhouse of the white paper. Collaboration on items, especially regional recreation services, is what cities have been requesting for years, and the population based voting is going to deliver.
Respectfully, being that this is a site about building more so than politics, I'd say it hits the mark. When companies consider expansion and they scroll down through the list of candidates, it's good to have an accurate picture when they google population size. Those not from the area dont understand the traveling dynamics. The reality is, the larger the city the more expansion simply because it is large and people see it as a better opportunity. Expansion brings expansion. There is no point in handicapping yourself in this regard.
So I suspect with the PAC agenda this week, we'll be able to set up our 3rd Freddy Project thread for the Railyards development. Looking forward to it once it's approved.
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