YEG - Edmonton Int Airport - Page 63

MalcolmTucker · #**1241** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 10:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

dude...do some homework. EDMONTON VOTED TO CLOSE THE MUNICIPAL AIRPORT IN A REFERENDUM and consolidate to the International.

Yeah, close the Muni in 2052. Plebiscites aren't binding and all it asked for was concurrence on a Bylaw. Bylaws can be changed, and are all the time for political reasons.

If a politician stood up and said the muni must stay open to general aviation until 2052 because the people said so, would you accept that?

I don't think so.

S_B_Russell · #**1242** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 10:57 PM**

Edmontonians voted to close the Muni? When did this happen? -Sarcasm mode off -

IKAN104 · #**1243** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 11:10 PM**

For the sake of completeness during this debate - I believe this was the exact question posed in 1995:

Edmonton Municipal Airport
Do you direct City Council to repeal “The Edmonton Municipal Airport referendum bylaw” (No. 10,205)? That bylaw requires the City to operate the Municipal Airport and promote that airport’s air passenger service.

A “YES” vote means that the City will promote MOVING scheduled air passenger service to the Edmonton International Airport.

A “NO” vote means that the City will promote MAINTAINING scheduled air passenger service at the Edmonton Municipal Airport.

Under both options the City will continue to own and offer general air services (e.g. private planes, small charters, air ambulance) at the Municipal Airport.

Yes
166,404 votes
76.80%

No
50,253 votes
23.19%

Jasper and one o nin · #**1244** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 11:21 PM**

^thank you Ikan. I say we dig up the muni and then flood it - so we can land float planes. Then point to point service to Vancouver Harbour.
I can't believe people are posting comments in favour of an airport that limits downtown development in a SKYSCRAPER FORUM!

Edmonchuck · #**1245** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 11:27 PM**

Wasn't it 77% of Edmontonians voting in favour?

MalcolmTucker · #**1246** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 11:30 PM**

^^

Given the amount of time between large projects in Edmonton I don't think the muni is the primary reason we don't see more development in downtown Edmonton.

Edmonchuck · #**1247** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 11:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

LRT to YEG, now thats a pipe dream - even at $50 million a kilometer thats still a ridiculous expense.

(...)
High Speed Rail which by all indications it looks like Stelmach will run his election campaign on will have the same negative effects on a traffic basis. Preliminary plans do not have a stop at YEG but do have one at YYC. Think about what that will do.

My oh my, your experience coming in on Calgary Trail must have hit the most fortuitous times. I haven't experienced trips that rapid since the new ikea opened at Whitemud, thats not even talking about South Edmonton Common.

Now this is an interesting question, if the city closes the muni before 2052 ie breaking its lease, who can sue them and for how much?

Actually....the ROW for LRT is there, and on raw land, your $50 mill per kilometer is exaggerated. Plus, don't scoff at LRT to our airport. There is an event in the works that will give us JUST THAT...

I travel to YEG weekly from Telus Plaza. I guess I am just fortunate, 104 times a year. Now for 6/49.

As for who can sue, NO ONE. If the city decided to bury YXD, the only people that COULD be angry is the ERAA, and trust me, they won't be.

Edmonchuck · #**1248** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 11:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

^^

Given the amount of time between large projects in Edmonton I don't think the muni is the primary reason we don't see more development in downtown Edmonton.

ACTUALLY....

I know personally of one project that may have been skinnier and taller sans APO....

MalcolmTucker · #**1249** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 11:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edmonchuck

Wasn't it 77% of Edmontonians voting in favour?

There was another vote in 1992, but still not 77%

Are you in favour of bylaw No. 10,205 The Edmonton Municipal Airport Referendum bylaw?
Yes - 115773 ~56%
No - 90566 ~44%

This bylaw was then repealed in the 1995 vote. People can be finicky no?

Edit: The Edmonton Airports site uses the number 77% [Link]

MalcolmTucker · #**1250** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 11:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edmonchuck

ACTUALLY....

I know personally of one project that may have been skinnier and taller sans APO....

Well, I guess we all know what that project is - unless it was a pre-1992 building.

MalcolmTucker · #**1251** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 11:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edmonchuck

As for who can sue, NO ONE. If the city decided to bury YXD, the only people that COULD be angry is the ERAA, and trust me, they won't be.

So the ERAA will pick up the costs to relocate all the businesses that have hangers and aviation related businesses to YEG?

Those businesses have had reasonable assurances that the airport would stay open for some time.

Edmonchuck · #**1252** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 11:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

If HSR does not pose a threat, why does Dash 8 service to the muni?

OK, let me answer this kyle, and trust me, I can kill each and every one of your arguments all day, so keep bringing 'em.

The reason why you won't see a Dash 8 is just like PWA's 737, they were full of connecting passengers more than direct Calgary passengers. I lived that era firsthand. So, your 10 flights will not be viable at all w/o connections, and then once you open that can of worms, well, welcome to 1979. So, listen carefully. IT….WON’T….BE….ALLOWED.

HSR has the potential to be an issue for YEG if, and only if, there is a stop at YYC and NOT one at YEG. Then, if there is no open skies, Air Canada's investment in the Calgary Mini hub will just allow them to utilize the HSR connection to take some of the equipment they need to service Edmonton and place it on other routes. The only way HSR makes any economic sense is to take YEG traffic, otherwise the numbers are totally in the white elephant category.

Mandel is NOT in favour of re-opening YXD. That is not going to happen. And as for your "democracy is a bitch" comment, I'll make you a deal. Let's use it. Let's get the 1992 question on the ballot. Close it or keep it open. I guarantee you, the result will be to close it. Edmonton has grown significantly in population since then, and many of those don't even know what a Muni is. Add to it the gaggle of people who love our new flights and newfound prosperity, and the Muni is so dead. So, I'll bet it is in favour. The last vote on the same question was hair thin. Simple question, if there was such momentum for re-opening, why hasn’t the question been posed?

Again, the nLRT you so espouse will need a TERMINAL if it was to service any YXD passengers. All FBO's and the old terminal are on the other side.

This argument is dead. Like I said before, if you think you have a case, let's go for it. 2010 is not that far off, and to get the signatures you'll need to put this on the ballot, you'd better start now. I even challenge Tony to get this running. Koziak, let's go. Anyone???????? Give me any excuse to mount up the Calvary and finally shoot this freaking bullshit debate with a silver bullet.

Can I suggest one thing before you do though? Stop by the Alberta Aviation Museum and read up on the entire debate. You’re gonna need it.

rapid_business · #**1253** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 11:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

The LRT stop is being built in close proximity at Nait, I never said anything about an additional stop built solely for the Muni.

Which is on the opposite side of the airfield. Should they build a tunnel underneath it all?

It can't/won't happen.

Edmonchuck · #**1254** Posted **Dec 10, 2007, 11:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

So the ERAA will pick up the costs to relocate all the businesses that have hangers and aviation related businesses to YEG?

Those businesses have had reasonable assurances that the airport would stay open for some time.

And I could have reasonable assurances that things will stay the same, but they don't. I hardly beleive that all businesses have 50+ year leases. Once the current rent is up for renewal, oops, no facility.

It would be the same as a rental unit. And if they terminated prior to the lease, I am sure there are clauses in place. No renter, airport or not, will sign a lease that doesn't have these terms and conditions in place.

MalcolmTucker · #**1255** Posted **Dec 11, 2007, 12:12 AM**

So, if you guys hate the muni so much why don't you launch an attempt to close it. Or just get a couple city councillors on side, you can problably get both proponents of closure and reinvigoration on side if the question is the 1992 question.

My only argument for the muni is that if you have the infrastructure already in place, you should use it, instead of spending money to solve the problems people have identified with YEG.

Also, it seems Canada is a couple stops behind on the open skies train, so keep on hoping.

ibz · #**1256** Posted **Dec 11, 2007, 12:19 AM**

Sounds like dinoman is back

tuffyy · #**1257** Posted **Dec 11, 2007, 1:13 AM**

Hey guys the private jet of all private jets will be in town again on thursday night...VP-CCC private A340-600VIP arrives at 0230 and departs at 1100 on Saturday.And she is a beauty...This will be the third time in a few months its been to YEG.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/336719469_580a5bd3c8_o.jpg

Photo cortesy of Flickr.

SHOFEAR · #**1258** Posted **Dec 11, 2007, 1:15 AM**

who's jet is that?

#**1259** Posted **Dec 11, 2007, 1:26 AM**

Love that plane. What is going on with Saudi Arabia and Alberta? That is where that plane is from correct?

tuffyy · #**1260** Posted **Dec 11, 2007, 1:28 AM**

Belongs to national air service of Saudi Arabia.They fly to YEG then fly another smaller charter to YMM.They also brought a gulfstream 5 back in August for the trip.