Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Here's an interesting tidbit:

source: http://www.morebusesnow.ca/issues/transithistory1.html

Here's the preliminary rapid transit plan (LRT) from 1978 ((With dollar costs!!)). Because of Federal cash, the government of the time went with SkyTrain. It would appear that both Port Moody and Richmond were on the books for an extension. Richmond has the distinction of being close to the airport, which no doubt added to its likelihood of getting a rail line.

>snip<

Quite interesting to see that using LRT, the N.E. line would start at Burquitlam and head south to New West and meet up with the Surrey line to head north-west to vancouver.

And NO UBC / SFU 'brain train' along Broadway or Lougheed.

And the Richmond line via Arbutus.


so ... are we better off today for the way Skytrain was (and wasn't) built?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Which switch at Waterfront was out yesterday?

My guess it was the one switch at the tail track east of the station.

Trains were still able to use one platform (the other had a dead train on it) to offload and load people, so I would surmise the switches west of the station were operating as normal.

However, this makes me wonder if the issue was actually the dead train and not the switch. With a dead train stuck on either the inbound or outbound platform, the tail track can't be used anyhow.

If the dead train was partially on the tail-track switch, you would have the same problem of only one platform available for normal use.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Which switch at Waterfront was out yesterday?

Switch 1 at the end of the inbound tail. Prevented them from bringing a train in from the inbound and turning it around in the tail track, so they had to switch trains to the outbound before arriving at Waterfront but that meant only one train could be in the station at a time, leading to backups in the tunnel.

I believe the switch stopped reporting its position, which caused a nearby train to time out to prevent a potential derail. Staff drove the timed out train (probably back to the platform) but with the switch not working they couldn't turn trains around anyways.

Overall, not an unusual event, there's usually a few of these a year, but coming right on the tail of other issues it's being flagged as yet another reason TransLink and SkyTrain are terrible.

Adding to that, there was a power outage affecting Canada Line in Richmond this morning, and a server crash led to the ticket vending machines not accepting credit or debit. (TVMs are maintained by a different company under contract, but who cares about details when we can just blame TransLink for being absolute failures at everything, right? )

[spm2013]

Originally Posted by dpogue

Switch 1 at the end of the inbound tail. Prevented them from bringing a train in from the inbound and turning it around in the tail track, so they had to switch trains to the outbound before arriving at Waterfront but that meant only one train could be in the station at a time, leading to backups in the tunnel.

I believe the switch stopped reporting its position, which caused a nearby train to time out to prevent a potential derail. Staff drove the timed out train (probably back to the platform) but with the switch not working they couldn't turn trains around anyways.

Overall, not an unusual event, there's usually a few of these a year, but coming right on the tail of other issues it's being flagged as yet another reason TransLink and SkyTrain are terrible.

Adding to that, there was a power outage affecting Canada Line in Richmond this morning, and a server crash led to the ticket vending machines not accepting credit or debit. (TVMs are maintained by a different company under contract, but who cares about details when we can just blame TransLink for being absolute failures at everything, right? )

It's funny to watch the drama queens. If they want screwed up infrastructure that will blowup big then they should look at BC Hydro

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by Monolith

I have to agree with VancityBuzz. I think we are truly blessed to have SkyTrain technology.

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/07/vancouverites-spoiled-skytrain/

Ha ha hah! Not surprise Daryl Dela Cruz defends Skytrain despite the need to improve it to make it better, especially as the system expands and more people rely on it. He sure is silent in the forums about it as of late.

The commentators have a point...this one is spot on!

It's baffling that this article is essentially saying "look, Toronto has it worst. Vancouver is spoiled." First of all, can we all stop the Toronto bashing? Saying another city is worst off does not make us better. TransLink is problematic - no one can deny that. Instead of wasting time and comparing our system to the worst of the worsts, how about we try to fix the issues at hand so we are able to compare it to the best of the best? Why have such a negative attitude about this? As Vancouverites, we have the right to voice our opinions and complain if the skytrains shut down three times in a span of a week. Vancouverites are spoiled in a way, but definitely not because of the skytrain..

[WarrenC12]

Good stats on how Translink stacks up vs other regions on users per capita:

http://sfb.nathanpachal.com/2014/07/transit-service-in-metro-vancouver.html

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Good stats on how Translink stacks up vs other regions on users per capita:

http://sfb.nathanpachal.com/2014/07/transit-service-in-metro-vancouver.html

I am beginning to like Nathan Pachal. Not sure why Daryl hates him so much.

Anyways, surprised (not) that this hasn't been posted here...

TransLink commissions independent review into recent Skytrain disruptions

TransLink has announced an independent review into two major Skytrain disruptions that left thousands of commuters stranded.

The transportation agency says Gary McNeil will lead the review. McNeil is now retired, but was previously the CEO of GO Transit in Toronto. He was also involved with the planning and launch of Skytrain between 1982 and 1986.

“Confidence in the system has been impacted, and I’ve determined an independent review would help,” says Ian Jarvis, CEO of Translink. “Gary brings a wealth of experience, he was not a Skytrain employee back at the time, but he has some familiarity with automated systems like Skytrain, which is somewhat unique.”

And this...

Translink CEO grilled by metro Vancouver mayors

Delta mayor Lois Jackson has a personal memory of the transit debacle.

Her daughter, who needs oxygen and walks with a cane, was one of the people stranded on a train.

“She was trapped on that train between New Westminster and Scott Road Station,” says Jackson. “We were texting back and forth. It got to be an hour and 15 minutes – still nothing; the air conditioning was off, it was hot on the train and no one knew what was going on. It was very scary for me.”

[Mac Write]

in case of a communication dead (and time to get Skytrain people to stranded trains), it would be good for people to get not the cell and call a Skytrain emergency line and then the passengers can communicate it to others on the train. text/phone relay would be a big help in these situations.

[officedweller]

Transit vote would be a mail-in ballot:

http://www.richmondreview.com/news/269221901.html

[Kisai]

Mayors appointed to Translink board of directors

What do you think, good thing or bad thing?

Vancouver, BC, Canada / (CKNW AM) AM980
CKNW News Staff
August 01, 2014 11:07 am
...
North Vancouver district Mayor Richard Walton and New Westminster Mayor Wayne Wright will represent the mayors’ council on regional transportation on the board.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by Kisai

Mayors appointed to Translink board of directors

What do you think, good thing or bad thing?

Overall its a good thing, although I think there should be four mayors, one representing each of the four quadrants of Metro Vancouver.

As for the two specific mayors, Richard Walton is actually pretty good. I've had a long chat with him, he knows is stuff pretty well regionally and always sees the big picture. Wayne Wright....mixed feelings. While I admire his boldness in making sure Merchant Square rightfully so moves forward, New West do have a track record of being somewhat parochial. So I dunno.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by Monolith

I have to agree with VancityBuzz. I think we are truly blessed to have SkyTrain technology.

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/07/vancouverites-spoiled-skytrain/

We are blessed to have Skytrain technology, but let's be honest here. It is not among the world's best transit systems. We've got plenty of room to grow and make improvements to the technology, and system here in this city.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by Vancity

We are blessed to have Skytrain technology, but let's be honest here. It is not among the world's best transit systems. We've got plenty of room to grow and make improvements to the technology, and system here in this city.

And this is why opinion pieces like the one in Vancitybuzz does more harm than good. Clearly there is an issue with the way Skytrain was managed. So its imperative that we look into those issues and see how we can IMPROVE to MAKE IT BETTER.

But the author, for some reason, sees Skytrain as *perfect*, and if there is any hint of imperfection, he would try to find ways to elevate its stature in order to promote his agenda. The fact of the matter is, people were seriously affected y the outages, and I for one am happy that the CEO recognizes this and has move forward with the review. Though it is expensive, its absolutely necessary.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

And this is why opinion pieces like the one in Vancitybuzz does more harm than good. Clearly there is an issue with the way Skytrain was managed. So its imperative that we look into those issues and see how we can IMPROVE to MAKE IT BETTER.

But the author, for some reason, sees Skytrain as *perfect*, and if there is any hint of imperfection, he would try to find ways to elevate its stature in order to promote his agenda. The fact of the matter is, people were seriously affected y the outages, and I for one am happy that the CEO recognizes this and has move forward with the review. Though it is expensive, its absolutely necessary.

Yeah. Agree with you. I don't think it benefits anyone to look at Skytrain and not be constructively critical of how the system can be made better. Translink has a lot to learn. Like. A LOT. They could look at some places in the world to understand how they could better utilize their resources, or create opportunities for more financial resources, in order to improve the system. Hong Kong, NY has one of the best transit systems in the world (and yes, they are larger cities for sure population wise - but who's to say, Translink cannot learn from them, and adopt and change certain ways they're doing things?).

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

And this is why opinion pieces like the one in Vancitybuzz does more harm than good. Clearly there is an issue with the way Skytrain was managed. So its imperative that we look into those issues and see how we can IMPROVE to MAKE IT BETTER.

But the author, for some reason, sees Skytrain as *perfect*, and if there is any hint of imperfection, he would try to find ways to elevate its stature in order to promote his agenda. The fact of the matter is, people were seriously affected y the outages, and I for one am happy that the CEO recognizes this and has move forward with the review. Though it is expensive, its absolutely necessary.

Daryl I find gets too excited when he feels he's right. He does a fair amount of research, and is excited to share, but he doesn't condense things down to data that people want to spend the time to read. Then there is DMJ who I swear just copy-pastes the exact same thing every time "Skytrain" shows up in google news.

Personally, my beefs with the Skytrain have nothing to do with the train or it's technology itself, and has more to do with the stations wasted opportunities:
- No bathrooms (Vancouver to Coquitlam, short version of a long story, there's also no gas station bathrooms near skytrain stations.)
- Few retail kiosks or even vending machines to buy a drink/ice cream from while waiting (Royal Oak has vending machines at street level), and existing retail spaces are wasted (Is that flower shop at Burrard ever going to have anything in it? The retail space at Grandville was empty for a long time too.)

We could prevent track intrusions with door/walls if we got rid of the Mark I cars and made all the Mark II's the same length. But I'm of the opinion that there's enough safety mechanisms already in place, and platform barriers are meant really for controlling overcrowding because it adds more space to the platform.

I'd also like to see the "next station" LED displays added to all the train cars so there's actually a visual indicator of what stop is next and not having to rely on looking out the window when you miss what stop was said. Like here's a wasted opportunity as well that would have helped during the two outages. The signs could have switched to "Please wait for staff" if they have power. Even adding the "next train in 3 minutes" type of boards at ground level would help so people don't run and block the doors.

But I think what would have improved things for Transit users would have been for everyone who uses the Skytrain to subscribe to a SMS or Twitter push notification that would say not to panic and wait for staff as soon as a problem showed up. I'm fairly certain this is within the realm of possibility. But hindsight is 20/20 right?

[casper]

Originally Posted by Kisai

Daryl I find gets too excited when he feels he's right. He does a fair amount of research, and is excited to share, but he doesn't condense things down to data that people want to spend the time to read. Then there is DMJ who I swear just copy-pastes the exact same thing every time "Skytrain" shows up in google news.

Personally, my beefs with the Skytrain have nothing to do with the train or it's technology itself, and has more to do with the stations wasted opportunities:
- No bathrooms (Vancouver to Coquitlam, short version of a long story, there's also no gas station bathrooms near skytrain stations.)
- Few retail kiosks or even vending machines to buy a drink/ice cream from while waiting (Royal Oak has vending machines at street level), and existing retail spaces are wasted (Is that flower shop at Burrard ever going to have anything in it? The retail space at Grandville was empty for a long time too.)

We could prevent track intrusions with door/walls if we got rid of the Mark I cars and made all the Mark II's the same length. But I'm of the opinion that there's enough safety mechanisms already in place, and platform barriers are meant really for controlling overcrowding because it adds more space to the platform.

I'd also like to see the "next station" LED displays added to all the train cars so there's actually a visual indicator of what stop is next and not having to rely on looking out the window when you miss what stop was said. Like here's a wasted opportunity as well that would have helped during the two outages. The signs could have switched to "Please wait for staff" if they have power. Even adding the "next train in 3 minutes" type of boards at ground level would help so people don't run and block the doors.
....

On the retail front I think the idea of vending machines is a good one. Not certain about retail outlets in the station. The metro in Belin and may other European cities has many abandoned locked up retail stands on the platforms. I think it tough to make them work financially.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by casper

On the retail front I think the idea of vending machines is a good one. Not certain about retail outlets in the station. The metro in Belin and may other European cities has many abandoned locked up retail stands on the platforms. I think it tough to make them work financially.

HK has a ton of retail in their stations. they seem to be successful. and these are different kinds of retail. some clothing stores, bakery stores, 7-11 stores, etc. I think, depending on the location of the station, it could be quite well. the closest thing we've got in the COV, would be main street station (the starbucks underneath...). maybe new west's station as well?

[officedweller]

Retail is a tough sell in the stations - not an environment where people want to linger.

The vending machine idea sounds like a good one - for convenience items like beverages and snacks.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by Vancity

HK has a ton of retail in their stations. they seem to be successful. and these are different kinds of retail. some clothing stores, bakery stores, 7-11 stores, etc. I think, depending on the location of the station, it could be quite well. the closest thing we've got in the COV, would be main street station (the starbucks underneath...). maybe new west's station as well?

NYC has kiosks in their subway stations as well. Mostly they sell magazines, candy bars and drinks but that is the kind of stuff people are looking for on the go. In Munich there are bakeries, food stands and other things in the stations but naturally they are before the pay station.

I think its smart to integrate transit stations into retail/buildings and creates hubs.

Look at Karlsplatz in munich. You have the station under the major roadway that also has parking garages etc underneath. Below there are numerous shops and cafes and you have connections to the major department stores that are on the corners of the intersection.


Source and more images:
http://architecture.mapolismagazin.com/content/stachus-passage-karlsplatz-munich

I am actually surprised that they didn't find some way of integrating sky train at main and terminal into the via station in some way. I know its close but they are two separate entities. Pacific centre has somewhat of an integration to the expo line with a few shops but nothing to really write home about.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

if you start selling things that create garbage the trains will get a lot messier. yes there are garbage bins and what-not but people are generally pigs when you get into things where there are groupings of people.