Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[casper]

Originally Posted by dpogue

We still don't know at a detailed level exactly what the electrical failure affected. I believe with reasonable certainty that it definitely affected the control room workstations, but we don't know whether the actual VCCs shut down.

What we do know:

• There are 4 VCCs for the system, each one a cluster of 3 CPUs. These 3 CPUs all perform the same calculations, and 2 of them must agree before any command goes out to the system. This is sometimes called redundancy, but it's more accurately "error checking". Photos: 1 2 3
• Originally these were powered by OS/2. There's a mention of them being upgraded, but I can't find anything else that confirms that.
• The control operators use workstations running Windows (XP?) and Thales NetTrac SMC and SCADA software. Photos: 1 2
• There are redundant SMC servers, which are normally used for training new control operators, but can be used if the main SMC system goes down.
• If the SMC becomes unavailable, the VCC can still operate via a command-line "degraded" mode, but things like platform destination signs don't function. It's possible that degraded mode would actually involve commanding each train one by one.

We do not know:

• If there are backup VCCs. (Unlikely, since the VCC software is proprietary and it was "prohibitively expensive" to even get more mimic diagrams set up around the control centre).
• If there is a backup power supply for the VCCs.
• If there is a backup power supply for the control center workstations.

Neat photos. Thanks for posting. Those look like Eurocard racks for the electronics. I am not a fan of that form-factor.

Two out of three voting is not unusual for a safety system. The safety systems in the CANDU Plants are also 2 out of 3 voting. I know Boeing has four channels on many of their aircraft not certain how they do the voting.

When you do redundancy you are either doing it for: (1) availability or (2) reliability/safety. You have to be certain of why and how your doing the redundancy.

If your doing redundancy for availability it means you just need one system to work if you are doing it for reliability you nee 2 of the three to agree permuting the third one to be own.

Some things that look "weird" in the photo. I don't know enough about this system to know if I miss interpreting something. I am surprised the computers are in the same rack. Most critical systems I am use to you would split them out with independent field networks, power etc. Maybe that is just how they design the fail over I am certain.

OS/2 is not bad per say, just dated though you can still buy it. Your reference talked about how some of the newer systems are running on vxWorks. I am not a fan of vxWorks and would rather have the OS/2. RTEMS is a much better alternative.

[Genauso]

Originally Posted by Kisai

Speculatively speaking, The Olympics happened. The Evergreen line was supposed to happen before the Canada Line,

No, Evergreen was always last in line ever since it became an idea as part of the Millennium line in the 90s. The Olympics happenned, and so to secure mayoral support in time for the Canada Line to complete in sync with a much larger campaign, the Evergreen line went from last to ahead of Broadway, which itself was the raison d'etre for the entire Millennium Line. I'm not sure it matters, but it does show coordinating large projects seems to be harmfully messy.

[Genauso]

As for the recent transportation failures, ultimately after all precautions, compartmentalization and failsafes you need a system that can fail gracefully. The problem is there are no parallel bus routes that can take up the slack when SkyTrain fails. It is too much of a linear line and not enough of a network. This is precisely why I can only vote against the Mayors Council in the TransLink referendum even though I think its mission is important and valuable.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by Genauso

No, Evergreen was always last in line ever since it became an idea as part of the Millennium line in the 90s. The Olympics happenned, and so to secure mayoral support in time for the Canada Line to complete in sync with a much larger campaign, the Evergreen line went from last to ahead of Broadway, which itself was the raison d'etre for the entire Millennium Line. I'm not sure it matters, but it does show coordinating large projects seems to be harmfully messy.

Sorry, no. Evergreen Line was NOT always the last in line. It was suppose to be Evergreen Line (PMC Line), then Broadway, then RAV. The reason being is the LRSP calls for densification of the Northeast Sector to cope up with population growth. Richmond was suppose to not be part of much growth because its a flood plain and would put pressure on the ALR.

As a matter of fact, if Glen Clark didn't switch to Skytrain, the original LRT plan was Evergreen Line and what is now the Millenium Line in one go, then Broadway was the second phase, and I think the completion date was to be 2006 for everything.

Originally Posted by GlassCity

These delays need to be stopped if we're going to save our region from LRT as well as having any hope of increased funding.

You speak of the LRT as some kind of monster. Trust me, it won't bite...

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

The dangers of having a too efficient transit system: the SkyTrain meltdown

"Due to the provincially mandated requirement to become more efficient, TransLink has reduced the resiliency of the system.

For example, TransLink didn’t purchase a $20 million backup system that may have allowed SkyTrain service to be restored faster on Thursday. Also, TransLink doesn’t have the long-term funding to pay for the over $1 billion in upgrades that will be required to keep the SkyTrain from becoming overcrowded and running as reliably as possible over the coming decades."

"I don’t say this lightly; I’m very grateful that no one died due to the failures that shut down the SkyTrain system on Thursday and Monday. Other transit agencies, like Toronto’s TTC, have had people died when system failures occurred"

I noticed the author of the blog is Nathan Pascal. I couldn't figure out who he is at first but the name is familiar, then did some googling.

Ah yes, he is one of the people Daryl Dela Cruz (Skytrain for Surrey) cited as a Skytrain critic...

Some of the biggest names we know in Metro Vancouver transit issues discussions – the ones you might hear about in newspapers; examples include: Paul Hillsdon, Nathan Pachal, Jordan Bateman, John Buker – are or at one point have been motivated by a criticism of SkyTrain rapid transit.

He also cited Paul Hillsdon, who is a forumer here and actually ran for office in Surrey for transportation issues (and impressed Dianne Watts). Surprisingly Malcolm Johnson isn't there.

Anyways, I don't see Nathan criticising Skytrain at all, and was even defending it. So I dunno why Daryl labeled him as such...

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

You speak of the LRT as some kind of monster. Trust me, it won't bite...

It will hardly even nibble! It certainly won't make a dent in our traffic situation..

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

You speak of the LRT as some kind of monster. Trust me, it won't bite...

I just felt like I haven't bashed LRT for a while now so it was important to casually slip it in

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

To prevent any loss of power to the vital systems a UPS system exists which gives a few hours of juice.

I'd be very surprised if their UPS wasn't a diesel motor-generator set of the type we used to have for our computer centre and are also used at hospitals and other critical services. It can supply power for an indefinite period of time as long as you keep refueling it. These kind of UPS systems do have batteries, but they're only needed to provide a few seconds of power while the motor-generator comes up to speed. (Actually, power always from from the batteries through an inverter but the motor-generator keeps them charged).

[Genauso]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Sorry, no. Evergreen Line was NOT always the last in line.

Do you expect me to believe that?

Douglas College is justified in taking precedence over the busiest bus route throughout the history of Translink, only overtaken by the Expo line relatively recently, and the densest corridor for both housing and jobs outside of the downtown peninsula. In fact, to prepare for the Evergreen Line the NDP must have rushed to build the Millennium Line connecting nothing, through nothing, and to nothing just to prepare. The Broadway line would only make sense once it could connect to Douglas College.

There was no pressing need before 1990 for any metro line, and once demographics changed Broadway-UBC has always been the planning priority. Planning for a Millennium Line and zoning to increase density came after the fact and would not have been a significant factor to justify the line, it was political promise to start, a political trade to secure the clear next up status, and the easiest available option for Christy Clark politically to commence construction.

The political trade to which I refer is how Coquitlam's mayor, along with others who each had their own inducements offered by Gordon Campbell, accepted going from #3 priority to #2 as a part of supporting the RAV line ahead of Broadway in time for the Olympics. The planning priority rankings to which I refer are as clear as day and come from the actual ridership statistics. It was a big package where the Mayors chose to give Gordon Campbell what he wanted even though they clearly didn't like him and first voted against the RAV line (I believe publicly they said there wasn't demand for it.)

Here's a quick guideline to realize if what you're arguing makes sense when it comes to major transportation projects:

• could the proposed new project handle demand at 50% of current planned opening capacity?
• could the same service be provided by expanding current infrastructure by 50%?

[GlassCity]

And after the Evergreen Line, the Broadway Line might even fall yet again to Surrey...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Genauso

The problem is there are no parallel bus routes that can take up the slack when SkyTrain fails. It is too much of a linear line and not enough of a network. This is precisely why I can only vote against the Mayors Council in the TransLink referendum even though I think its mission is important and valuable.

You have to be realistic. Voters and politicians will never spend the money to build and run a parallel route solely for the purpose of redundancy - they'll only do it if the normal passenger volumes justify the expense. Some day in the future we'll have rapid transit routes that provide a better network, but we'll never get there without first going through these growing pains.

In terms of "completing the network", the Millenium Line extension to at least Cambie must be the region's number 1 priority, because it will allow a lot of people to use the Canada and Millenium Lines to bypass problems on the Expo line (and, to a lesser extent, vice versa).

Vancouver proper does have a very good grid network of bus routes, but the problem is that there's no way they can handle the same passenger volumes as Skytrain. The bursting-at-the-seams bus service on Broadway is an excellent example of the limitations of the bus network. Trying to offload Skytrain volumes on top of that is simply a non-starter, and that's another reason why rapid transit is such a necessity for it.

[djh]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

All this talk of back up systems, remember:

Each VCC is made up of 3 CPUs: 2 must be in agreement and 1 is for redundancy

If 1 CPU fails, the VCC continues to operate.

Skytrain has 4 VCCs, each controlling a SEPARATE area of the ATC. 3 for the Mainline, 1 for the yard.

Canada Line has 2 VCCs, 1 for the Mainline, 1 for the yard.

Both OMCs have power supplied by Hydro and a Generator if Hydro is lost. To prevent any loss of power to the vital systems a UPS system exists which gives a few hours of juice.

When dealing with Power, there are many breakers to isolate systems, just like in your house. You can turn off the main feed in your home, or isolate just your dryer or furnace, see. Same for all electrical systems.

Last week, one VCC crapped out ( a card failed that took time to diagnose ). This week, the power (electrical) network was affected causing ALL VCCs to lose power (not crash). This causes all the trains to time out and need to be re-entered across the entire system (including the yard).

Big big headaches for passengers and staff, but unrelated issues between this week and last, not indicative of a failing infrastructure. All the trains Emergency Braked as designed and passengers were safe on board. Zero risk of trains colliding, for example.

There isn't really a "back up" available for Monday's problem as the failure was in the power supply between the main and back up systems and the actual computers. Best work around is NOT to perform this type of work during revenue service, I'd say.

You lost me at the first set of acronyms...looked like an interesting read otherwise...

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by Genauso

Do you expect me to believe that?

Absolutely. But I'm not going to dig up all the articles, history and so on that has been discussed since this forum's inception in 1999, which some of us are extremely aware off and been discussing to death for over a decade. Maybe officedweller can dig up the old documents for the LRSP, PMC Line and so on. Feel free to read up with all the relevant threads here...the history is all there with links, diagrams, etc.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Absolutely. But I'm not going to dig up all the articles, history and so on that has been discussed since this forum's inception in 1999, which some of us are extremely aware off and been discussing to death for over a decade. Maybe officedweller can dig up the old documents for the LRSP, PMC Line and so on. Feel free to read up with all the relevant threads here...the history is all there with links, diagrams, etc.

Google searching for PMC line will generally get a lot of hits back to SkyScraperPage

This is however relevant
http://cnvapps.cnv.org/minutearchive/Minutes/2003_05_12.pdf

WHEREAS the TransLink Board will be meeting on May 23, 2003 to
determine the priorities of the next very large public transit expenditure;
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT the City of North Vancouver go on
record as supporting the long established Greater Vancouver Regional
District priority of completing the construction of the “T-Line”, specifically the
remaining Port Moody/Coquitlam (PMC) Line to Coquitlam Centre prior to
approving the Richmond/Airport/Vancouver (RAV) Line.
A recorded vote was taken on the motion.
Voting in favour: Councillor Mussatto
Councillor Keating
Voting against: Councillor Heywood
Councillor Clark
Councillor Fearnley
Councillor Perrault
Mayor Sharp
The motion was DEFEATED by a vote of five to two.

www.richmond.ca/__shared/assets/021201_item11512.pdf

Jan 19 2001, Translink Board in Brief
Maquire Bank says Richmond/Airport Rapid transit holds PPP potential
...
PMC Line Preliminary Design Agreement

I'm not going to transcribe all that.

https://burnaby.civicweb.net/Documents/DocumentDisplay.aspx?Id=5091

SUBJECT: RICHMOND-AIRPORT-VANCOUVER RAPID TRANSIT PROJECT (RAVP)/

NORTHEAST SECTOR RAPID TRANSIT ALTERNATIVES



PURPOSE: To provide background material and formulate a position in response to Council's request for a staff report on shifting regional transportation priorities.

...
2. THAT Council request the GVRD and TransLink Boards to:



a) Hold to the long standing regional priority of completing the construction of the “T”-Line, specifically the remaining Port Moody-Coquitlam (PMC) Line to Coquitlam Centre, prior to approving the bid procurement phase of the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver Rapid Transit Project (RAVP);
...
Figure 5 provides an illustration of the inter-dependence of various elements of the LRSP. It shows how the availability of rapid transit or SkyTrain (Increased Transportation Choice) fosters development in town centres which, in turn, helps to protect the Green Zone while supporting the Complete Community and Compact Metropolitan Region strategies of the plan. Figure 5 also depicts the LRSP’s aims of managing growth in order to maintain regional livability and protect the environment.

Basically everything said already. Though this should probably be mentioned too:

3.4 Millennium Line (2002)




The Millennium SkyTrain Line opened for service on Saturday, August 31, 2002 with the introduction of nine (9) new stations in Vancouver and Burnaby. With this one event, the operating length of SkyTrain in the region, effectively, almost doubled overnight. Two days later on Monday, September 2, 2002, the integration of bus service with the new Millennium Line occurred in Burnaby, New Westminster and the Tri-Cities (Port Moody, Coquitlam, and Port Coquitlam) to provide convenient connections with the new SkyTrain stations. This bus service change was the largest restructuring of bus routes to occur in the region since Phase 1 of the Expo line opened in 1986.



However, the “T”-Line is only now half built - without the PMC Line to Coquitlam Centre, the effectiveness of the Millennium Line will be significantly undermined. To use the Expo Line as an example, Metrotown Station has grown from the seventh busiest station on the line to the busiest. The creation of the regional town centre at Metrotown, and the ridership it generates, would not likely have occurred if the construction of the Expo Line stopped at Metrotown Station and did not connect to New Westminster or Surrey beyond.



Time has shown that Coquitlam Centre has had difficulty in attracting office development in the absence of a rapid transit connection to the rest of the region. Moreover, the implication for the Lougheed Town Centre is just as significant. Will it be at the nexus of three rapid transit lines or will it be the bus terminal along a sub-regional SkyTrain loop?

Basically saying that the Evergreen Line was always a part of the Millennium Line plan.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by djh

You lost me at the first set of acronyms...looked like an interesting read otherwise...

LOL ( Sorry, Laughs out loud)

VCC - Vehicle Control Centre (the computer that makes it all work)

UPS - Uninterrupted Power Supply

ATC - Automatic Train Control

CPU - Central Processing Unit

OMC - Operations Maintenance Centre

Come on, its a Transit forum... we're all geeks here!

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

LOL ( Sorry, Laughs out loud)

VCC - Vehicle Control Centre (the computer that makes it all work)

UPS - Uninterrupted Power Supply

ATC - Automatic Train Control

CPU - Central Processing Unit

OMC - Operations Maintenance Centre

Come on, its a Transit forum... we're all geeks here!

I'm a transit fan and I've never heard or seen those acronyms before. But thanks though.

[twoNeurons]

Here's an interesting tidbit:

The growth of public transit was impressive. Between 1972 and 1975:

• Major city routes in Vancouver moved to 3 and 4 minute service during rush hour, including Broadway, Hastings Street, Commercial Drive, Main Street, to UBC and others
• 20 bus drivers a week were hired, increasing fleet operations significantly
• New bus depots were established in Surrey and Port Coquitlam to service those regions
• Two Seabus ferries were introduced to carry passengers between downtown Vancouver and the North Shore in 1977.
• Rapid transit options were researched and developed.

source: http://www.morebusesnow.ca/issues/transithistory1.html

Here's the preliminary rapid transit plan (LRT) from 1978 ((With dollar costs!!)). Because of Federal cash, the government of the time went with SkyTrain. It would appear that both Port Moody and Richmond were on the books for an extension. Richmond has the distinction of being close to the airport, which no doubt added to its likelihood of getting a rail line.

[queetz@home]

Oh c'mon! This is too much! I'm beginning to think minions of Jordan Bateman or Malcolm Johnson are actually sabotaging the Skytrain to further their cause.

Another day, another SkyTrain delay

Another day, another SkyTrain delay.

Those were the sentiments of riders caught Thursday morning in the fourth notable service disruption on the system in a week.

Complaints started coming in about stalled trains on the Canada Line on social media at about 7:20 a.m.

During the outage, TransLink tweeted there was no service from YVR to Marine Drive Station and also from Richmond-Brighouse to Marine Drive Station.

TransLink later confirmed they suffered “a power outage at one station on the Canada Line, resulting in a minor 10-15 minute service delay for some customers in Richmond between Bridgeport and Marine Drive this morning.”

In their statement, the transit authority explained that “a temporary bus shuttle (bus bridge) was immediately implemented." Full service resumed by 7:50 a.m.

However, riders caught in the aftermath of the outage reported that crowded trains and platforms continued after 8:30 a.m. as trains tried to contend with the passenger backlog.

Riders reported packed trains leaving many passengers unable to board at some stations, particularly Oakridge.

At least in this case, defenders of the original Skytrain (Expo and Millenium Lines) and the way it is managed can rest easy...

Canada Line fully open after Richmond shutdown this morning

Perhaps the Canada Line was feeling left out.

After the Expo and Millennium lines experienced two major shutdowns in one week, the Canada Line had its own outage this morning (July 24).

Metro Vancouver's third SkyTrain line lost power south of Marine Drive Station, shutting down its Richmond and airport branches.

Interestingly enough, if you count the construction mishap of the Evergreen Line last week, you can pretty much say all rapid transit lines in Metro Vancouver had been jinxed for the month of July.

[Mac Write]

Which switch at Waterfront was out yesterday?

[Monolith]

I have to agree with VancityBuzz. I think we are truly blessed to have SkyTrain technology.

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/07/vancouverites-spoiled-skytrain/