ATLANTA | Development Thread V - Page 61

BlueSangha · #**1201** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 3:49 AM**

streetcar...blah, blah, blah
livability, workabilty, developement on a broken infrastructure...endless prattle
$300,000. for a study...yawn
teachers, cops, firefighters furloughed, water wars...
oh the movie never ends, it goes on and on and on and on.

plorenc · #**1202** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 3:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by delarosa

aside from the point re: unreliability (as it seems they'd be sharing the same roadway and subject to delay), i think most on any of the sides of the discussion would agree. all things being equal, most people would prefer to ride in a streetcar for shorter trips, there's enhanced perception, etc.

imho the relevant questions are things like: at what cost? what's the impact on transportation in those districts, at the city, metro and regional level and how does that compare with the impact of other improvements (assuming we are indeed talking about transportation infrastructure improvement and not something more akin to tourist appeal...not that these are necessarily mutually exclusive) and their costs?

and then baked in there from my perspective there'd be a lot of questions about of the people who don't/won't take buses, how many are going to start using a tram and how often...esp considering the broader framework of residence patterns implying things like: the vast majority of people would still be using a car to get onto or near the streetcar system or will more likely than not be making trips including places not on the streetcar line and under time constraints.

ultimately, if there is an existing (in this case two: buses and rail) alternative that is (i think most would agree) not as optimal for the aforementioned reasons, it's hard to imagine that second or third best isn't possibly good enough given the variety of other transportation woes experienced by this city, metro area and state. to be further reductionist about it, if the idea is to take cars off the streets and highways (also implying that the people in those cars will as a consequence be out of those cars at some point during the trip), lets look at where most of these cars come from, go to and travel in between and put the solutions and money there.

You have very relevant questions, those that should be asked to those making such decisions. However, I'm just happy to see progress going somewhere, as that is exponentially better than what we've had for a very long time: nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSangha

streetcar...blah, blah, blah
livability, workabilty, developement on a broken infrastructure...endless prattle
$300,000. for a study...yawn
teachers, cops, firefighters furloughed, water wars...
oh the movie never ends, it goes on and on and on and on.

Can you elaborate on what this is supposed to mean?

Fiorenza · #**1203** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 4:17 AM**

And the band played on.

plorenc · #**1204** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 5:03 AM**

Am I missing out on something?

What's with these cryptic messages?

alleystreetindustry · #**1205** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 5:35 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by atl2phx

i think what alot of people overlook is that the beltline will not only connect neighborhoods and points of interest, but to also stimulate development within and around the beltline.

exactly! vibrant communities around the beltline AND marta! im telling all of you... atlanta is going to be the cats meow in the coming decades.

joecool · #**1206** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 6:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by alleystreetindustry

exactly! vibrant communities around the beltline AND marta! im telling all of you... atlanta is going to be the cats meow in the coming decades.

Yeah, when we get rid of the idiots who are running the show right now! Why are people against the belt line? ...WTF!!!

jaypkatl · #**1207** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 6:34 AM**

I wish I would have seen the beltline built before I left Atlanta - Is going to be a great asset if it ever gets off the ground. Atlanta has huge potential to create a transit system that works, but they keep ignoring the possibilities. The way state government is in Georgia - Atlanta is always going to get short changed on money for development. Most Georgia law makers want to return Georgia to the ways of the OLD SOUTH!!

echinatl · #**1208** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 1:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaypkatl

I wish I would have seen the beltline built before I left Atlanta - Is going to be a great asset if it ever gets off the ground. Atlanta has huge potential to create a transit system that works, but they keep ignoring the possibilities. The way state government is in Georgia - Atlanta is always going to get short changed on money for development. Most Georgia law makers want to return Georgia to the ways of the OLD SOUTH!!

Isn't this most likely to change after the census?

ATLaffinity · #**1209** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 1:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaypkatl

I wish I would have seen the beltline built before I left Atlanta - Is going to be a great asset if it ever gets off the ground. Atlanta has huge potential to create a transit system that works, but they keep ignoring the possibilities. The way state government is in Georgia - Atlanta is always going to get short changed on money for development. Most Georgia law makers want to return Georgia to the ways of the OLD SOUTH!!

That's all states. The states are destroying the stimulus by allocating resources to areas where nobody lives.

California is in a lot worse shape than Georgia.

atl2phx · #**1210** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 2:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecool

Yeah, when we get rid of the idiots who are running the show right now! Why are people against the belt line? ...WTF!!!

huh? not sure where you're hearing people are against the beltline.

in fact, there's positive support and backing for the beltline in and around atlanta, "the city", particularly among the majority of neighborhoods impacted by the beltline.

atl2phx · #**1211** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 2:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaypkatl

I wish I would have seen the beltline built before I left Atlanta - Is going to be a great asset if it ever gets off the ground. Atlanta has huge potential to create a transit system that works, but they keep ignoring the possibilities. The way state government is in Georgia - Atlanta is always going to get short changed on money for development. Most Georgia law makers want to return Georgia to the ways of the OLD SOUTH!!

it's already off the ground, land acuisition is ahead of schedule, trails are being built, old parks are being refurbished, new parks built and as was mentioned in an earlier post, more than $1B in new (mostly residential) development has been attributed to the beltline.

BlueSangha · #**1212** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 3:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by plorenc

Can you elaborate on what this is supposed to mean?

It's hardly cryptic-they are the topics of the day, and after listening for a while everything becomes conflated, repetative and tiresome. The "Journey" reference I thought was apropos b/c it points to the fact that when it comes to these issues it's all talk; there's no logic, no innovation, no concensus-nothing ever changes. Just an observation that's all.

ATLaffinity · #**1213** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 3:48 PM**

^ i thought you were referencing the end of The Sopranos.

BlueSangha · #**1214** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 3:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

^ i thought you were referencing the end of The Sopranos.

never saw an episode of that show.

L41A · #**1215** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 4:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ls1z28chris

I can see the Beltline being useful, but a streetcar along Peachtree seems a little odd. What benefit would the city incur by having a street car traveling the same route as heavy rail?

I can see how the Beltline would improve things: Folks along the edge of the city would now have rail transit options for getting to the fast and cheap heavy rail of MARTA. I just don't see how light rail above the same tracks traversed by heavy rail along Peachtree would be beneficial. Perhaps someone can help me out...

One significant benefit is that the streetcar does not separate the rider from the street-level environment like an underground heavy rail system does.

A street car creates more pedestrian and street activity. A user of street car may have more casual transit needs when compared to the user of a subway heavy rail which does exist with MARTA in Downtown Atlanta. A street car user is less likely to be in a hurry when compared to a subway heavy rail user. A street car user may be distracted by an activity, a restaurant, a shop, etc on the street-level and may be so engaged or interested to explore in a way that the limited-environment heavy rail subway user can not.

I do see benefit in the streetcar in this part of town especially the line between Centennial Olympic Park and the King Center in the potential of creating more street activity, retail or even more livable spaces.

I see your point though. Maybe the scenario of moving Peachtree Street line the block or two west to Spring Street in Downtown through its connection to West Peachtree Street in Midtown can be considered. Nonetheless, I still see benefit of the street car as conceptualized along Peachtree Street.

A-town · #**1216** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 5:53 PM**

Since we're on the subject of the Beltline, I thought I'd post an article about a similar project that was undertaken in New York City called High Line. Very similar to Atlanta's envisioned Beltline, High Line shows what's possible when abandoned railroad tracks are converted to walkable green space that fits in with the surrounding environment. It should also be mentioned that this is a project that has been in the works for well over a decade. So if we're going to do it, lets do it and do it right, we just have to be patient.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124571055656438803.html#mod=article-outset-box

RobMidtowner · #**1217** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 6:08 PM**

I don't understand how people can be so critical of the usefulness of the Beltline and Streetcar when we've had "developmental" highways widened all over rural Georgia in the middle of nowhere! Mass transit is necessary in urban areas and is not a waste of money; four-lane highways going for miles through a rural area with few vehicles is a waste of money!

gttx · #**1218** Posted **Jul 23, 2009, 8:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by A-town

Since we're on the subject of the Beltline, I thought I'd post an article about a similar project that was undertaken in New York City called High Line. Very similar to Atlanta's envisioned Beltline, High Line shows what's possible when abandoned railroad tracks are converted to walkable green space that fits in with the surrounding environment. It should also be mentioned that this is a project that has been in the works for well over a decade. So if we're going to do it, lets do it and do it right, we just have to be patient.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124571055656438803.html#mod=article-outset-box

Sorry, but you are comparing apples and oranges. The High Line and the BeltLine are two VERY different projects in two VERY different cities.

NativeAtlantan · #**1219** Posted **Jul 24, 2009, 2:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by atl2phx

wondering if anyone has any insight into how GDOT plans to treat the (green shaded areas) on the 14th st/7585 connector rework? it looks like there will be a fairly significant non-traffic median running from 10th to 17th between 75 and 85, but i can't tell from the GDOT plans how it will be finished.

also wondering about the gap between techwood and the connector.....i assume it will be lots of bare pavement, but it'd be nice to see some type of greenery.

anybody?

I think the middle area is for HOV ramps and not sure about the outside part but it's probably where the 17th St. Northbound exit ramp will go.

sevensixtwo · #**1220** Posted **Jul 24, 2009, 5:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecool

...WTF!!!