Domain/North Austin Development Updates

[Mopacs]

Originally Posted by the Genral

The aerials are great, but I will never consider the Domain a 2nd downtown again. Not because there are no skyscrapers, or decently tall buildings, its the whole layout, lack of straight line street grids. From the air it kind of looks haphazarded. I like the Domain, but it is no downtown, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. It has some style, but no character, no historic value. It looks like a grouping of buildings placed within the confines of a repurposed property best viewed from street level. And it is an island surrounded by 3 major roads so it won't take long before is built out. A few 300 footers would be nice and may sway my opinion but probably not. I guess parking garages are the new substitute for surface parking lots and only marginally better visually. There's certainly a shit ton of available parking at the Domain. Great incentive for everyone to drive on in for a visit.

The internal road network is inadequate and results in significant congestion surrounding the retail areas (original Simon development especially). I can only imagine how bad it will get once the office towers come online. Getting in and out of the Domain will be no picnic.

The spillover development outside the confines of the Domain may be an improvement.

[Vexal]

Why does anyone drive through the middle of the domain in the first place? All of the best garages are accessible from near the entrances.

[_Matt]

Originally Posted by Vexal

Why does anyone drive through the middle of the domain in the first place? All of the best garages are accessible from near the entrances.

Inexperience.

[smith_atx]

Originally Posted by _Matt

Inexperience.

and probably a ton of Lyft/Uber.

[lzppjb]

Originally Posted by _Matt

Inexperience.

Speaking of inexperience, I've still never been to the Domain.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

Speaking of inexperience, I've still never been to the Domain.

I think it would be worth the trip if you did. Plus, it would be interesting to get your feedback after seeing it with fresh eyes. I've been by there several times a year since after the demolition of the IBM plant and see it from a short distance away daily so the changes to me are quite gradual and expected.

[NYC2ATX]

When I lived in Austin, the Domain was always one of my favorite places to visit. I'd be lying if I said I didn't go up every so often just to peek in on the construction. I always found it amazing that they could just build a new neighborhood that almost looked like a real neighborhood. When I moved away they had just opened the first part of Rock Rose but the northern half was still cordoned off, and wrapping up construction.

However, even then, I remember the lack of traffic lights was the first thing that struck me as it began to get more crowded, as newly completed phases had continued to open. Encountering the four-way stops was nerve-wracking even as a driver. I can only imagine what it's like now.

At the same time though, I am so rooting for the Domain because, planning gaps aside, it has been a runaway success so far in terms of return on investment, and it's going to remake the area in its image by proximity. It's interesting to think that once Broadmoor, other neighboring developments, possible changes at the Pickle Campus down the line, this will then be the oldest part of this neighborhood.

If they can learn from mistakes made early on and retrofit the core away from car dependence in the future, and pending the implementation of more mass transit options, it may work in the end. The internal roads are intended to suit pedestrians, so for example, creating a pleasant experience for the entirety of the walk from the Metrorail or nearby bus routes (the "first/last mile"), will incentivize people to walk and use transit.

It only works if people actually leave their cars sometimes!

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by the Genral

The aerials are great, but I will never consider the Domain a 2nd downtown again. Not because there are no skyscrapers, or decently tall buildings, its the whole layout, lack of straight line street grids. From the air it kind of looks haphazarded. I like the Domain, but it is no downtown, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. It has some style, but no character, no historic value. It looks like a grouping of buildings placed within the confines of a repurposed property best viewed from street level. And it is an island surrounded by 3 major roads so it won't take long before is built out. A few 300 footers would be nice and may sway my opinion but probably not. I guess parking garages are the new substitute for surface parking lots and only marginally better visually. There's certainly a shit ton of available parking at the Domain. Great incentive for everyone to drive on in for a visit.

I'm so glad that you said this because I think the same way.

Look, it's fine that the Domain is fairly dense, you can see that from those pictures, however the connectivity and road infrastructure is a total mess, which you can also see in those pictures. I will never consider it a 2nd DT because it's buildout is less than ideal. It's not even truly walkable in the sense of for example, walking from Dillards to Rock Rose. Crossing those streets is like being in a real life game of Frogger, the Simon section is clearly disconnected from the "Northside" nothing but parking garages fronting Domain Drive making the western side along Mopac walled off. Then you get to that large parking lot in front of Dicks Sporting Goods. Granted there are those high voltage powerlines cutting across but still, that lot could be something better. The Domain is just a glorified outdoor mall with residential and office components. If the developers actually cared about tieing into the surrounding area, they would have designed a better road network from the very beginning.

The Domain is the perfect example of private development not working with the city government to create a truly urban experience which seamlessly blends in with the surrounding area. As Genral stated, it's an Island.

[Jdawgboy]

And one more thing, I see responses of not bringing cars or not driving through the Domain. Again try walking from Dillards to Rock Rose and you will see why people shopping there get into their cars to drive from one part to the other. Domain Drive doesn't even have complete sidewalks and in some places, no sidewalks at all. Also it's kinda hard not to use a car to get there since there is no rail stop even though the tracks run right by it. Let's be honest, half the Domain is parking garages.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by NYC2ATX

When I lived in Austin, the Domain was always one of my favorite places to visit. I'd be lying if I said I didn't go up every so often just to peek in on the construction. I always found it amazing that they could just build a new neighborhood that almost looked like a real neighborhood. When I moved away they had just opened the first part of Rock Rose but the northern half was still cordoned off, and wrapping up construction.

However, even then, I remember the lack of traffic lights was the first thing that struck me as it began to get more crowded, as newly completed phases had continued to open. Encountering the four-way stops was nerve-wracking even as a driver. I can only imagine what it's like now.

I think they've learned a bit. The only two intersections I avoid like the plague (except early morning) is Esperanza meeting Domain and Alterra. Four way stops just don't work for 5 lanes (including turns) meeting 5 lanes. To my recollection, any section newer than that doesn't have anything nearly as bad.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

And one more thing, I see responses of not bringing cars or not driving through the Domain. Again try walking from Dillards to Rock Rose and you will see why people shopping there get into their cars to drive from one part to the other. Domain Drive doesn't even have complete sidewalks and in some places, no sidewalks at all. Also it's kinda hard not to use a car to get there since there is no rail stop even though the tracks run right by it. Let's be honest, half the Domain is parking garages.

I've done that walk many times. Where does Domain Dr. not have any sidewalks? Probably the closest it comes is by the Flatiron (Domain/Newman corner), where stuff is shut off due to construction? But then why do you need to walk there, since it's not done yet?


The rail tracks are 2/3 mile from (and parallel to) Domain Drive. Not "right by it".

If they end up relocating the station to Broadmoor, then it'll be... 2/3 mile from Domain Drive in Northside.

[Syndic]

You can't get to most places in Austin by train. The Domain isn't some anomaly. Just like South Congress or Mueller or West Campus etc. you have to use a bus and that's okay. Taking a bus is probably the most common form of mass transit in all of the Americas. We're not Europe. We can't just take trains everywhere.

Again, just because a car is the most efficient means of getting around the Domain, that doesn't mean you have to drive right through the heart of it. Try to drive and park around the outskirts, then park close to your destination and walk in.

[Mopacs]

Originally Posted by Syndic

You can't get to most places in Austin by train. The Domain isn't some anomaly. Just like South Congress or Mueller or West Campus etc. you have to use a bus and that's okay. Taking a bus is probably the most common form of mass transit in all of the Americas. We're not Europe. We can't just take trains everywhere.

Again, just because a car is the most efficient means of getting around the Domain, that doesn't mean you have to drive right through the heart of it. Try to drive and park around the outskirts, then park close to your destination and walk in.

I agree with that - I usually approach the Domain from less congested locations (closer to Burnet) and park as close to the periphery as practical. I personally like the Northside district and visit every month or so. But I still don't think of the Domain as a "2nd downtown" at this point. Perhaps as it expands beyond the current confines.

[AusTxDevelopment]

These are from the original 2005 sales brochure for the Domain land. The "concept" HFF created for their marketing brochure was much less haphazard than what Endeavor eventually built out. Simon had already bought and begun to build out the other section a few years before, as you can see from the images. Endeavor was their partner but Simon did the master planning for their section.

[_Matt]

Originally Posted by AusTxDevelopment

These are from the original 2005 sales brochure for the Domain land. ...

Phew, we really dodged a bullet there. Look at all the parking lots surrounding retail.

[murfnut]

for some reason progress on the element hotel in the domain stopped. I am thinking something with the contractor. Looks like its about to start up again. This week we have had a new crew out there surveying and doing some other prep work.

[Syndic]

Massive mixed-use development coming to northeast Austin?

https://www.kvue.com/article/money/e...c_xGPrLd3M8yBI

This would be very close to my house. Those renderings look like something out of The Sims, though.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Syndic

Massive mixed-use development coming to northeast Austin?

https://www.kvue.com/article/money/e...c_xGPrLd3M8yBI

This would be very close to my house. Those renderings look like something out of The Sims, though.

Judging from the numbers on their site, both "massive mixed use" and "almost like a second Domain" are misnomers.

https://eastvillageatx.com/#concept

280k office space. That's less than many single buildings in the Domain.
20k restaurant space. That's what, like 4 restaurant pads?

Almost half the site seems to be a purely SF subdivision, extremely isolated from the rest.

[Syndic]

True, it does seem a bit overhyped in that news story. It looks like it will be pretty suburban/low density with a small splash of mixed-use, for trendiness.

However, it says there will be 30,000 square feet of grocery space so I'm holding out hope for an HEB. I'm not a huge fan of the one at Parmer & 35.

I like that there will be park space, incorporating the creek, and from this map it does seem like it will take up a relatively large space:



I just never really venture in that direction. It feels rural, like I'm leaving Austin. Maybe once there's more development that'll change.

Adding map for archival reasons:

[wwmiv]

Even the "urban" parts of that map are mostly parking lots.