[Saint John, NB] West Side Developments

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by RaginRonic

Don't they have to strip [St Pat's] down to studs and fix everything?

I don't think the exterior needs more than brick repointing, window and entry work, and a roof. AFAIK neither St Pat's nor St Vincent's are getting the Woodstock Middle School treatment. The purported structural problems that closed the school were extremely overblown, from all I've heard.

And on the subject of St Vincent's, the roof work was done in 2024. A lot of internal structural work and analysis has been done since then. I was kind of hoping it would be first. IIRC, the units will generally be contained in the former classroom spaces.

No idea how many units they can get in there, or how much parking, but it's going to be a super cool project. 56,000 square feet for the above-ground-level floors not counting the gym. The windows facing the back of St Joe's pose a challenge, but that's where you put your MLI-Select-required affordable units, I guess. The south facing wall will get great natural light, no issues on the Cliff St side either.

What I'm most interested in is what they'll do with the gym and the ground floor sections.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

I don't think the exterior needs more than brick repointing, window and entry work, and a roof. AFAIK neither St Pat's nor St Vincent's are getting the Woodstock Middle School treatment. The purported structural problems that closed the school were extremely overblown, from all I've heard.

And on the subject of St Vincent's, the roof work was done in 2024. A lot of internal structural work and analysis has been done since then. I was kind of hoping it would be first. IIRC, the units will generally be contained in the former classroom spaces.

No idea how many units they can get in there, or how much parking, but it's going to be a super cool project. 56,000 square feet for the above-ground-level floors not counting the gym. The windows facing the back of St Joe's pose a challenge, but that's where you put your MLI-Select-required affordable units, I guess. The south facing wall will get great natural light, no issues on the Cliff St side either.

What I'm most interested in is what they'll do with the gym and the ground floor sections.

Would it be semi feasible to build a few floors on top of the existing building?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

The permit site has finally been updated. The day after the election? Odd coincidence.

41 Depot Court (next to Princess Auto) - CONSTRUCT NEW BUILDING FOR PROPOSED RESTAURANT - $10.4M - I guess that is our confirmation, it is a restaurant going in there, but it doesn't say who.

The two permits for the old schools are $6M (34 Units) for St Patrick's and $3.5M (25 Units) for St. Vincent's.

$1.2M permit for the foundation for 920 Fairville Boulevard. This is the apartment building that the adjacent Mosque is building. Really happy to see this moving!

Probably some other stuff that's not jumping out to me.

Edit - this is the original rendering for the Fairville Boulevard development from when it was proposed in 2024.

Glad to see this is still going to happen. It might not be absolute most desirable location, but it’s an extremely walkable location with all the shopping and services around it, along with one of the busiest bus stops in town.

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

I really wish that there was enough funds within the local Muslim community to create a really nice looking mosque. I've been to many across the globe and they are always really beautiful. It's such a shame the buildings they are in are random buildings.

Excited for that next apartment block to jump up. There's a ton of potential to add more of these buildings. Say it quietly but within 5-10 years, this road will be down to 1 lane with a bike lane and you know everyone will lose their minds

As DarkHarbour pointed out in the main SJ thread, Fairville boulevard could easily be reduced to three lanes without messing up traffic. As someone who rides their bike over that way from time to time, turning left onto Fairville Boulevard from Bleury is absolutely brutal, and you basically gotta ride in the middle of the road up Fairville Boulevard to get to Sobeys, etc… which is just ridiculous, but I do do it sometimes.

I’m with you 100% on hoping the local Muslim Community can update their mosque sooner than later… this place just simply does not look like a house of worship, and I’m surprised locals haven’t complained about the “St. John Mosque” signage on the front of the building.

I think it’s an absolute shame they couldn’t have bought that old Baptist church uptown that is being converted into apartments… that would have been a perfect situation for a church-> mosque conversion.

Although, there is a former church on the West Side that would be perfect for a church to mosque conversion, this one near King’s Square West:







Took these pics the other day.

While the former Baptist church uptown was certainly in better condition and probably would have been easier to convert into a mosque, the clock tower on this one on the West Side already sort of looks like a minaret, and with some sprucing up, would be a lot better situation for the local Muslim community than their mosque on Fairville that looks like a former gas station or auto shop.

I’m not even sure what’s inside this former church at the moment, but I’ve always enjoyed spotting its clock tower on the West Side skyline.

[bingun]

This is the state of the new Dan's Country Market on Bay Street (or whatever they intend to brand it). I don't come this way often, so I am unsure if any of the progress is recent, but it doesn't look too far off!

Not sure what all the random shipping containers are about

[adamuptownsj]

Small infill going in beside the Olson's strip mall at 480-488 Prince Street. Apparently it's an apartment building. I didn't get a photo but the foundation's poured. Land sold twice in 2021, for $65K and $125K.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Small infill going in beside the Olson's strip mall at 480-488 Prince Street. Apparently it's an apartment building. I didn't get a photo but the foundation's poured. Land sold twice in 2021, for $65K and $125K.

Yes, I noticed this last time I was buying some shad fish and fiddleheads at Olsen's:

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Pics from a few days ago, (and bottom pic from a few weeks ago, if I recall correctly)

(Edit: looks like it’s the same construction company as the project nearby beside Olsen’s.)




Still think it's strange how we have a St. John Street (when some locals lose their minds when someone has the audacity to abbreviate the spelling of the first word in the name of our small city)






I usually take a right on Duke Street West when coming home if there's a red light on Marketplace (talk about a street with the potential to be something great with some sprucing up and investment)

I don't often see this view of the former school, but did see it that day because of the red light. I think this vantage illustrates just how big this property is, and how much room for development is there beyond the former school building.

[bingun]

We've got some concrete details on the Belyea Arena redevelopment. This is going to PAC on June 16th. 209 units total, with 196 of those being from 3-story stacked townhouses.

Packed in like sardines! I wonder what the neighbours will think.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

We've got some concrete details on the Belyea Arena redevelopment. This is going to PAC on June 16th. 209 units total, with 196 of those being from 3-story stacked townhouses.

Packed in like sardines! I wonder what the neighbours will think.

It’s a shame they couldn’t have went for mostly 6 storey buildings and also invested in some underground parking, instead of these three storey townhouse rows with only surface parking. They could have saved so much space going 6 storeys for the same amount of units, even without any underground parking. Plus, from 6 storeys up, the view of Bayshore Beach would be pretty amazing. Big time missed opportunity, imo, even if 6 storey proposal would face a lot opposition from neighbours, rezoning issues, and increase construction costs.

When it comes to it, the main issue the surrounding home owners will have with this proposal (people seeing into their backyard, or losing a view of the Bay) exists whether they build three storey townhouses or three ten storey apartment buildings. A proposal calling for 6+ storeys could save a lot green space from what is currently one of the biggest green spaces in the neighbourhood… and likely add more value to the area than this proposal will based on these renderings.

It will be interesting to see how this proposal plays out. UptownAdam was convinced there was no room for more than 28-32 townhomes at this property (let alone the 330 number that Brent Harris was spreading around online). Well, it turns out Harris’s “scaremongering” figure was closer to the actual number of units being proposed for the Belyea property than the estimates from our resident experts as to the limits of this property, haha.

I still think Adam was bang on with the analysis tho, as, “would you rather have a homeless shelter or townhouses next door”, definitely rings true today, just as it did back when Brent Harris was trying to get his “Better Belyea” proposal off the ground. In hindsight, Harris’s proposal/campaign for a “Better Belyea” seems to have ended up helping this private townhouse proposal more than anything else.

I’m all for getting as much housing built on the West Side as possible, as it’s much needed, and will help the West Side have a stronger voice in our new federal riding, but I’m not sure I’m entirely convinced this proposal should be approved as is. Regardless, this proposal will require rezoning and go to a council vote… right?

[bingun]

PAC for this development is this Tuesday. The site plan has changed slightly and now includes potential phases. Plenty of opposition from neighbours, especially on Lowell Street, as their backyards will now have a road at the end. Some even mention the homeless shelter that used to be there; they haven't forgotten!

The townhouse design is also ugly as sin. I know we need affordable housing, but yikes.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

So emblematic of the Saint John experience… Developers from Rothesay want to build as many townhouses as cheaply as possible, because it’s not seen as valuable of a location as Rothesay, Millidgevile, or Quispamsis… yet, in any other city this would be considered prime, ocean front real estate. But only the Saint John Region do people pay more to live 20 minutes further from the ocean!

If people are expected to have housing towering over their backyard fences, at least put up some decent looking apartments. Brent Harris warned of a 300 unit high rise of social housing (that would have been awesome) but this development is far uglier than any brutalist commie blocks could have ever looked. This looks like straight up like low income row houses, and only the third storeys of these buildings will have decent views of the ocean.


I hope the city tells these Rothesayites to think taller and far less cheap, or move on. The minimum we should be talking about here is some decent looking 6 storey apartments, that shouldn’t require destroying 70% of the green space.. especially if underground parking was utilized.

This proposal, as the renders stand, would be selling this large, underutilized site (beside the ocean) exceptionally short.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

So emblematic of the Saint John experience… Developers from Rothesay want to build as many townhouses as cheaply as possible, because it’s not seen as valuable of a location as Rothesay, Millidgevile, or Quispamsis… yet, in any other city this would be considered prime, ocean front real estate. But only the Saint John Region do people pay more to live 20 minutes further from the ocean!

If people are expected to have housing towering over their backyard fences, at least put up some decent looking apartments. Brent Harris warned of a 300 unit high rise of social housing (that would have been awesome) but this development is far uglier than any brutalist commie blocks could have ever looked. This looks like straight up like low income row houses, and only the third storeys of these buildings will have decent views of the ocean.


I hope the city tells these Rothesayites to think taller and far less cheap, or move on. The minimum we should be talking about here is some decent looking 6 storey apartments, that shouldn’t require destroying 70% of the green space.. especially if underground parking was utilized.

This proposal, as the renders stand, would be selling this large, underutilized site (beside the ocean) exceptionally short.

AllNB reported that the proponent behind this development is an Ontario dentist.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by bingun

AllNB reported that the proponent behind this development is an Ontario dentist.

I thought Belyea Village Inc. or whatever they’re called were based out Rothesay… maybe not?

Regardless, these are some seriously poverty spec townhouses. I’d gladly take the 6 story apartments that Millidgeville NIMBY’s very vocally opposed over these ugly row houses… talk about selling this property short.





This is about as wide as two nearby duplexes, which would have 4 front doors in about the same width or less as seen in the above renders with 11 front entrances.