Urban Design in Edmonton

[Hardhatdan]

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

Why are these people worth retaining/attracting at the cost of lowering quality of life for the vast majority of Edmontonians? I get that they're your sorta people, but objectively why is it inherently superior to attract a banker that makes $100k/year in an office tower downtown versus a pipefitter who makes $100k/year in a Nisku mod yard, now that we've traded the infrastructure costs of supporting the latter's lifestyle to pay for all the infrastructure you're proposing that attracted the former?

The argument works both ways. Why is attracting a pipefitter more important than a banker? (Though both of those massive over simplifications don't hold an ounce of water in suburban vs urban but we'll roll with your words.)
Neither is more important, but they are both important. We need to invest in both, but it so happens because north American cities are how they are that they typically contain more 'unique' attractions that support the whole city within the urban areas. There isn't anything wrong with that in my opinion because you get added benefits of grouping things together. Critical mass and all that.
Advocating to continue to expand and improve these amenities and 'destination' areas is a positive and doesn't have to detract from anything else.
The city has done an excellent job of building more suburbs, it's done a mediocre job improving the urban areas. Putting some focus on the latter is going to be only a benefit.

[Daveography]

Originally Posted by feepa

and what are those things specifically?

so many posters here sell Edmonton short. It's no wonder we have a such an image problem when most of our citizens are so negative on what we actually have and do. We are our own worst enemy.

I feel like you (and other posters) are making an assumption that because some of us want to aid a shift to becoming a more desirable city for a wider demographic, that somehow means a) we think the city is currently awful, and/or b) that somehow making that shift is completely detrimental and antithetical to what others find desirable about the city.

[mcc16]

^ exactly. It's like, oh, Edmonton has made some advancements downtown, so I guess we're done. We invested, it worked, now let's stop. We've done enough for those urban snobs... I don't know which city these posters are living in, but the city I live in is FULL of people who enjoy living in urban walkable neighbourhoods. One poster in particular is a broken record stating that THE VAST MAJORITY of edmontonians don't want to invest in the downtown because they are blue collar... Meanwhile in reality, Oliver and whyte have been dense popular urban areas for years and downtown is quickly catching up. Downtown isn't going to be "done" any time soon. Power to the people who want to live in a field on the edge of town and drive minimum ten minutes to get anywhere (not a shot...my family is in this demographic). But myself and the VAST MAJORITY of people I know that want to see downtown get better is not a threat to the suburban lifestyle. And please someone name one thing in Edmonton that is unique to Edmonton and wasn't appropriated from elsewhere. EVERYTHING "hip" and "popular" or even mildly entertaining in Edmonton was somewhere else first. Or do you think we came up with tacos, food trucks, knitting, arenas, parks, whiskey bars, dive bars, coffee shops, farmers markets...........

I chose to stay in Edmonton (except for my current forced relocation) because of how much it has changed. I appreciate how much work has been done, but that doesn't mean I can't hope for more.

[240glt]

Wow. Speaking of crazy assumptions...

[mcc16]

Sorry, but do you have something constructive to add? Or would you like me to clarify something I said?

[240glt]

Nope. Carry on.

But worth noting that the patio at Local in Sherwood Park is open :p

[Coldrsx]

A timely article on Edmonton

https://monocle.com/magazine/issues/98/living-colour/

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

A timely article on Edmonton

https://monocle.com/magazine/issues/98/living-colour/

A stupid "preface" referencing a name calling that only nitwits from YYC used to decribe Edmonton. Why bother to state it at all.

[Coldrsx]

Ahem.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/art...eadmonton.html

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Ahem.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/art...eadmonton.html

Is this an old article as the body of the article states "London looking to host...in 2005"? It appears so and today's date on the masthead is because its an old article? And whats the point your making anyway?? Mine is "ignore"...yours seems to be "but others used it so therefore...". I wish you would not link to dribble.

[Coldrsx]

2001, the origin of the infamous term.

Neither here nor there though, another good article on Edmonton that continues to erode the misconceptions or perceptions from the last twenty five years.

[McBoo]

What the Daily Mail didn't realize, even in 2004, was that Edmonton, starting with the 2001 World Athletics, doesn't paper its stadium - a habit of long-standing in Europe.

[s211]

Originally Posted by McBoo

What the Daily Mail didn't realize, even in 2004, was that Edmonton, starting with the 2001 World Athletics, doesn't paper its stadium - a habit of long-standing in Europe.

I'm not familiar with that phrase. What does it convey?

[McBoo]

^ Sorry, paper as in give out free tickets to make attendance look good for TV audiences.

[s211]

Originally Posted by McBoo

^ Sorry, paper as in give out free tickets to make attendance look good for TV audiences.

Ah. Thanks!

[Coldrsx]

An online survey will soon be available.

https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...e-renewal.aspx

[Coldrsx]

A neat video on pedways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ox1R4DYXI

[noodlenoodle]

Replying here, instead of the image thread to prevent things going even farther off topic there & risk moderation killing the conversation.

Originally Posted by Daveography

Appreciate the compliment, backhanded as it was.

I don't tend to like using ignore functions, and generally am pretty restrained about getting into arguments.

I just don't get where you're coming from when you get down on downtown. It would be one thing if you were just dispassionate about it, but it sometimes feels like you'd rather the entire population of Edmonton, businesses, and all levels of government would just abandon it and all move to the suburbs already. It's especially confusing given that you live in and are invested in what is a logical and physical extension of downtown.

I don't think I'm "down" on Downtown, but I can see how it might appear so to someone who's personally invested (even if it's just emotionally) to the propping up of Downtown.

To paraphrase Wanda the Owl, when you look at somewhere through rose coloured glasses, all the red flags just look like flags.

We have been pumping absurd amounts of money into the revitalization & reconfiguration of Downtown over literally decades & the flight to the edges of the city has accelerated through all of it. There's next to no organic growth in the core, everything is attached to, induced by, contingent on or otherwise involved with stuff that's taxpayer-funded. We've just finished a massive round of said spending & I think it's appropriate that the city turns its gaze to where the people are going, looking, living & working, which is increasingly not Downtown.

I'm not down on Downtown, just more of a realist & accepting of the desires of my fellow Edmontonians than many on the board.

[McBoo]

When I first moved DT, I'd have agreed with you. In fact, would have purchased somewhere in the burbs had it been affordable and - at some point - not been a 40 minute drive on a weekend day.

But a lot has changed for the better - with both private and public investment.

Yes, public investment has been considerable, but we shouldn't forget that the initial LRT line, for instance, was chosen because it was a cheaper option than a freeway.

Nor should we forget that a $4.5 billion investment so folks in the burbs can whoosh from burb to burb on a brand new freeway is hardly peanuts.

All that said, I'm no DT shill. It works for me but maybe not so much for others.

Certainly for families, space is a problem. 600 Sq, Ft. just doesn't work so good for mom, dad and the twins. Lack of neighborhood schools doesn't exactly help either.

As well, anyone working in Nisku or EIA is certainly making an environmentally sound decision to live in Summerside or Leduc.

I just don't think it's black or white. A decade ago I moved DT pretty much reluctantly and rarely went out.

Now, I love the place and am rarely home.

[noodlenoodle]

The thing is, I enjoy living centrally, despite the numerous little paper cut issues that raise my hackles. Am I looking forward to moving out of the core neighborhoods? Heck yeah, but no rush.

I just think that we can get a better return on investment & benefit more Edmontonians if we "skate where the puck is going", which, despite the best concerted efforts of some amazing people & projects, is increasingly the suburbs. Hence the ring road & amenities far, far away from Downtown. Because that's where the people are.

I don't know what the answer is to Edmonton's unsustainable sprawl problems, but trying to change the opinions of the general public by throwing money at Downtown hasn't done the job so far. By my back of the envelope calculations, the new multi-family buildings in the core should, when occupied, get Downtown growing on-pace with the suburbs for the next census cycle. Not reversing the trend, merely not falling further behind.

(Too bad CMHC is forecasting a dearth of multi-family building starts in 2017-18, or they might have reversed it, at least for the next census cycle)