Images of Edmonton

[Coldrsx]

Disagree. Back in the day there was a TON more retail and Jasper was our main drag and a serious destination until malls and LRT killed it.

[Black Star]

LRT? Not so much. We had one line.

The biggest contributing factor was WEM.

[Coldrsx]

How the LRT ripped up Jasper for multiple years... it is still trying to recover.

[feepa]

I'd say Kingsway sooner than WEM. Downtown retail was dying long before WEM was built.

The reason people flock to indoor malls is the same reason people don't want to patio at -5 or +5 C

[Coldrsx]

Climate controlled lives!

[noodlenoodle]

The urban-uber-alles contingent always see Downtown as being sabotaged or otherwise not directly accountable for its own fortunes.

Most people in Edmonton don't work centrally. They don't live centrally. It's no surprise they don't shop centrally. Especially when Downtown is relatively terrible to get in & out of, relatively expensive to park (hard to beat free) & has precious little that can't be found easier elsewhere.

But no, it's the LRT, or WEM, or YXD, or the evil provincial government playing favourites with Calgary. Never the fact that Downtown simply isn't relevant to most Edmontonian's day-to-day lives. People have been trying to get away from it for 50+ years. That's why we have the suburbs we do. That's why we've had malls built on whatever the edge of the city was at the time, close to where people are living for half a century.

Nobody held a gun anyone's head & frogmarched them to the far side of the Henday to live.

That being said, Downtown can be quite lovely. Here's a panorama I took waiting for the tables for my wedding reception to be set up.

[Daveography]

^ I love how you can't even just post a picture or say one positive thing without a giant preamble about how you think downtown is terrible and baiting people into responding.

And against my better judgement, I do have to respond...

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

Most people in Edmonton don't work centrally.

Downtown is one of the largest concentrated employment nodes in the city (possibly the largest, having trouble finding stats)

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

They don't live centrally.

Downtown's population is growing.

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

It's no surprise they don't shop centrally.

Downtown retail is also doing well and growing.

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

Especially when Downtown is relatively terrible to get in & out of

With the exception of coming in from the west end, this is untrue.

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

relatively expensive to park (hard to beat free) & has precious little that can't be found easier elsewhere.

This is not unique to Edmonton, and prices are reflective of demand. High demand means high prices.

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

Never the fact that Downtown simply isn't relevant to most Edmontonian's day-to-day lives. People have been trying to get away from it for 50+ years.

Explain the resurgence of downtown over the last couple of decades, then.

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

That's why we have the suburbs we do. That's why we've had malls built on whatever the edge of the city was at the time, close to where people are living for half a century.

And many cities in North America have realized how these are not good things, which have brought as many negative aspects with them as people thought they were good. This is precicely why there is such a renewed focus on revitalizing downtowns and central urban neighbourhoods.

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by Daveography

And against my better judgement, I do have to respond...

As do I.

Originally Posted by Daveography

Downtown is one of the largest concentrated employment nodes in the city (possibly the largest, having trouble finding stats)

Not exactly a counter to his point.

Originally Posted by Daveography

Downtown's population is growing.

Neither is this.

Originally Posted by Daveography

Downtown retail is also doing well and growing.

Neither is this.

Originally Posted by Daveography

With the exception of coming in from the west end, this is untrue.

Fair shot.

Originally Posted by Daveography

This is not unique to Edmonton, and prices are reflective of demand. High demand means high prices.

Fair shot.

Originally Posted by Daveography

Explain the resurgence of downtown over the last couple of decades, then.

It's been more like a decade. 1996-2003 didn't see much happening at all and there was worries back then it was getting worse. The economic boom in Alberta started turning things around.

Originally Posted by Daveography

And many cities in North America have realized how these are not good things, which have brought as many negative aspects with them as people thought they were good. This is precicely why there is such a renewed focus on revitalizing downtowns and central urban neighbourhoods.

Fair shot.

To sum, the neighbourhoods addresses the needs of those who live in it first before anything else. Downtown retail is improving, yes, but it largely serves those who must rely on it due to proximity which may mean that it doesn't serve the entire city all that well. But that doesn't mean that people elsewhere can dig individual stores in those neighbourhoods, especially in niche markets such as top-end jewelery, cheese imports or high-end baking.

[noodlenoodle]

Originally Posted by Daveography

Downtown's population is growing.

Not according to the last two censuses

Originally Posted by Daveography

Downtown retail is also doing well and growing.

Yeah, turning retail levels into parking is the hallmark of a thriving retail environment.

Originally Posted by Daveography

With the exception of coming in from the west end, this is untrue.

Sweet jesus, I live in Oliver. I drive in & out every day. It's terrible. Thank god I can bypass Downtown for 90% of my trips. Maybe you're more tolerant than I, but we're at least a river crossing or two away from properly linking Downtown to the south side.

Originally Posted by Daveography

Explain the resurgence of downtown over the last couple of decades, then.

Over a billion dollars of investment from all levels of government to (artificially) increase the importance of Downtown.

If your pictures weren't so awesome I'd have thrown you on ignore long ago Dave. Since I generally don't post anything you seem to find worthwhile, I suggest that you just ignore me. You're much better behind the lens than on top of the soapbox or pulpit or whatever.

[noodlenoodle]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

To sum, the neighbourhoods addresses the needs of those who live in it first before anything else. Downtown retail is improving, yes, but it largely serves those who must rely on it due to proximity which may mean that it doesn't serve the entire city all that well. But that doesn't mean that people elsewhere can dig individual stores in those neighbourhoods, especially in niche markets such as top-end jewelery, cheese imports or high-end baking.

I like this.

[Daveography]

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

If your pictures weren't so awesome I'd have thrown you on ignore long ago Dave. Since I generally don't post anything you seem to find worthwhile, I suggest that you just ignore me. You're much better behind the lens than on top of the soapbox or pulpit or whatever.

Appreciate the compliment, backhanded as it was.

I don't tend to like using ignore functions, and generally am pretty restrained about getting into arguments.

I just don't get where you're coming from when you get down on downtown. It would be one thing if you were just dispassionate about it, but it sometimes feels like you'd rather the entire population of Edmonton, businesses, and all levels of government would just abandon it and all move to the suburbs already. It's especially confusing given that you live in and are invested in what is a logical and physical extension of downtown.

[Daveography]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

To sum, the neighbourhoods addresses the needs of those who live in it first before anything else. Downtown retail is improving, yes, but it largely serves those who must rely on it due to proximity which may mean that it doesn't serve the entire city all that well. But that doesn't mean that people elsewhere can dig individual stores in those neighbourhoods, especially in niche markets such as top-end jewelery, cheese imports or high-end baking.

Nothing you've said is incorrect, but I'm not sure what your point was in saying it. We can strive to have a downtown that provides services for its residents while also striving to make it more of a destination for residents from other neighbourhoods - not to mention visitors, let's not forget them.

Can we attract and please everyone? No of course not. That doesn't mean we stop trying.

Saying that not everyone works, lives, or even wants to come downtown is stating the obvious, but what's the point of saying it? Sure, that's the current reality, but don't forget that we make reality. What is now isn't what always was, nor is it what always will be. Suburban living wasn't always the norm either, and may not always be. We lost focus on our downtown for a long time, and now we're changing that again.

I realize this is going off topic, feel free to move to a more appropriate thread.

[noodlenoodle]

I replied to Dave here to keep this thread for pictures & not pitchforks.

[Black Star]

What a bloody shit show again today....

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Disagree. Back in the day there was a TON more retail and Jasper was our main drag and a serious destination until malls and LRT killed it.

if you really think it was malls and lrt that killed it, you need to research when neil crawford centre was built and recognize the negative impact that had [still has] on downtown. it wasn't a lack of shopping downtown, it was [is] a lack of jobs and purchasing power downtown that led to the stores shifting their focus.

[240glt]

Well in the spirit of Haloween I'll share this gem that crossed my Facebook today

[canucklehead2]

Brilliant! My favorite not on this list was the "We Done Bitches" dude at the Halloween Howler that Virgin Radio is sharing on the interwebs this week...

[rapid_business]

There was a little kid with the same costume I saw on Twitter last night... I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Here it is!

[canucklehead2]

Ftw!

[Albicaulis]

I clicked on here thinking I would see pictures of Edmonton.
Instead another bullshit circular someone vs. "downtown" pissing match.