Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

And yet I am not making any of this up.

Note also that Team Canada has banned francophone players from speaking French amongst each other, alleging it is not good for team spirit.

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Everything is about aggrievement for Quebecers huh? The team left off some top draft picks but they are all Anglophones. Who wasn't included?
The NHL is performance driven and pretty clearly shows Quebec is a declining hockey power. Marchessault is getting old and once he's gone is there another star marquee skater? Huberdeau is having a decent year I guess.

There's usually a good goalie. Motembeault could make a full NHL Team Canada. But he might be the only one right now.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And yet I am not making any of this up.

Note also that Team Canada has banned francophone players from speaking French amongst each other, alleging it is not good for team spirit.

This seems more like an interesting sidebar rather than the reason for why Quebec's production of hockey talent has fallen off a cliff the last two plus decades. All of these issues would have existed in the 70s and 80s as well.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by theman23

This seems more like an interesting sidebar rather than the reason for why Quebec's production of hockey talent has fallen off a cliff the last two plus decades. All of these issues would have existed in the 70s and 80s as well.

Agreed. It does not nullify that issue which also exists.

In fact, the production of quality hockey players is declining in Canada in general, but faster in Quebec. 7

[theman23]

Growing the game in the USA has been highly effective, regardless of what people here's feelings are about Gary Bettman and it's only a matter of time before they overtake us.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by theman23

Growing the game in the USA has been highly effective, regardless of what people here's feelings are about Gary Bettman and it's only a matter of time before they overtake us.

It's already very close to being the case.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Anyway, perhaps you've seen the tragedy in New Orleans. I've found something interesting. Here in France they say it happened in "le Quartier français", no need to explain what it is, everybody knows, and we use just the French name.

I notice that in Québécois newspapers they not only give the English name first, but they also need to explain what sort of neighborhood it is, as if readers didn't know.

Le Figaro:



Le Monde:



Compare with Le Devoir:

The reason why the English name was used is because English is the common language used in the US and the part of the city is commonly known as the "French Quarter" in tourism. Many Quebecers visit there and will know it by its English name due to signage, ads, media, conversation and more. Of course any francophone knows what the "quartier français" is.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In fact, the production of quality hockey players is declining in Canada in general, but faster in Quebec. 7

Less time eating, more time playing. Come on.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Loco101

The reason why the English name was used is because English is the common language used in the US and the part of the city is commonly known as the "French Quarter" in tourism. Many Quebecers visit there and will know it by its English name due to signage, ads, media, conversation and more.

It's not known as the "le French Quarter" here in the tourism world (media, businesses). It's ALWAYS "le Quartier français de La Nouvelle-Orléans". I find it odd if the über-Francophone Québécois use an English name here when in Europe we use its original French name.

Note that it's not an issue of translation. NYC's Little Italy is known as "Little Italy" here. So you can read "vous visiterez le quartier de Little Italy", but you never ever read "vous irez flaner dans le French Quarter de La Nouvelle-Orléans" (except perhaps among the most Anglomaniac Tiktok influencers...).

[harls]

Originally Posted by Nashe

Less time eating, more time playing. Come on.

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I find it odd if the über-Francophone Québécois use an English name here when in Europe we use its original French name.

But the French media uses Bourbon Street (like Québec) and not 'rue Bourbon'

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by harls

But the French media uses Bourbon Street (like Québec) and not 'rue Bourbon'

Yes, I suppose because the names of those streets were chosen after New Orleans had already become an Anglophone city. Note a little subtlety here: when the name of the street is in English, the preposition used before it is not the same as it would be if the name was in French. So it is "sur Bourbon Street" if the name is in English, but it would be "dans la rue Bourbon" if the name was in French, never "sur la rue Bourdon".

PS: Old references from the 19th century used "rue Bourbon" apparently. Here for instance: https://www.google.fr/books/edition/Les_...ourbon%22&pg=RA1-PA2&printsec=frontcover I find "rue Bourbon" sounds odd in French though. "Rue de Bourbon" would sound more natural. Bourbon is a name that has become a bit taboo in France since 1848 anyway. The Île Bourbon was renamed La Réunion. Bourbon alcohol is hardly known in France. These days the only "Bourbon" that still has some visibility in France is the Bourbon vanilla (the best in the world), which was named after Bourbon Island back when La Réunion was called Bourbon Island (they never changed the name even after Bourbon Island was renamed La Réunion). This is standard product found in just about any French supermarket (in the pâtisserie aisle always beloved of kids).

[New Brisavoine]

PPS: The French Wikipedia says that you guys call "Bourbon vanilla" just any sort of vanilla, and not rigorously the Bourbon vanilla (which is a special sort of Vanilla coming only from the current/former French isles in the Indian Ocean), so if you had "Bourbon vanilla" before it may not be the one I'm talking about (the real Bourbon vanilla is more expensive, but apparently its name is not protected in Anglophone countries, so retailers call all vanillas "Bourbon vanilla" to dupe the customers, whereas in France "vanille de Bourbon" can only be used for the real Bourbon vanilla).

One learns something new every day!

[Acajack]

In the southern US bourbon is a type of whisky.

Most people there would not associate the word with a French royal family.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Nashe

Less time eating, more time playing. Come on.

Haha! Not bad!

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

In complement to my previous post, I've noticed the French officials on Twitter have reacted almost like New Orleans was a French city, or very close to French hearts let's say.

Here the president himself:



Here the MP from Nouméa in New Caledonia. Can you imagine, if a terror attack had happened in Toronto, some British MPs calling Toronto "this so very British city"? Or the British PM calling Toronto "so dear to hearts of the British people"?



And this is JUST New Orleans, so I let you imagine what it would be if it was a terror attack in Montréal.

A British politician would never call any foreign city "a British city" or "dear to the hearts of British people". It sounds both very patronizing and also very twee in English.

Do the French really feel a kindred spirit to New Orleans, a city they sold over 200 years ago and where French is more or less extinct?

For what it's worth, Toronto might as well be closer to the hearts of French people. You are more likely to encounter someone on the streets of Toronto who can speak fluent French than in New Orleans. Toronto has French public school boards, theatres, bookstores and even a French university. You can fly direct from Paris to Toronto multiple times a day, whereas you can't to New Orleans.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In the southern US bourbon is a type of whisky.

Most people there would not associate the word with a French royal family.

And Spanish. The Bourbon still gloriously reign over Spain.



And to be honest, I find him much more dignified than our president. His Christmas wishes every year are far more stately and dignified than the New Year's wishes of the French president.

Less well known, the Grand Duke of Luxembourg is also a Bourbon monarch. Like the king of Spain, he's a direct male descendant of Louis XIV. So although we've abolished the French monarchy, we still have 2 members of our Bourbon dynasty ruling European countries. Not bad I'd say.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Nashe

Less time eating, more time playing. Come on.

Perfect!

But of course, one cannot overstate the importance of an aperitif and a digestif in creating the proper mindset prior to a scrimmage. One just has to wait a few hours before play commences to let the stomach settle. It is a well known fact.

How could such a regimen possibly affect conditioning and gameplay????

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Less well known, the Grand Duke of Luxembourg is also a Bourbon monarch. Like the king of Spain, he's a direct male descendant of Louis XIV. So although we've abolished the French monarchy, we still have 2 members of our Bourbon dynasty ruling European countries. Not bad I'd say.

And Queen Victoria was known as the grandmother of Europe.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Do the French really feel a kindred spirit to New Orleans, a city they sold over 200 years ago and where French is more or less extinct?

Yes because our medias talk often about New Orleans and Louisiana (in culture and tourism programs, not really in news programs). So people are well acquainted with both. It's a city and a state that has a special place in French consciousness. These TV programs are of course also broadcasted in Overseas France, which explains why the MP from New Caledonia on the other side of the world feels a certain connection with Louisiana too.

And there are things that would be hard to imagine, like ages ago when I was in 1st or 2nd year of university one night I was sleepless and turned the TV on at like 2 or 3 am when they had that 'hunting and games' program (dedicated to hunters of wild game and fishermen) broadcasted in the middle of the night which nobody watches, except when one is sleepless, and the program that night was... set in the bayous of Louisiana, with some real die-hard Cajuns explaining in their very accentuated Cajun French their life as hunters and fishermen in the bayous. I still remember it to this day.

Originally Posted by hipster duck

For what it's worth, Toronto might as well be closer to the hearts of French people. You are more likely to encounter someone on the streets of Toronto who can speak fluent French than in New Orleans. Toronto has French public school boards, theatres, bookstores and even a French university. You can fly direct from Paris to Toronto multiple times a day, whereas you can't to New Orleans.

Toronto wasn't founded and inhabited by the French, and there are almost never any programs or articles about Toronto in our medias, so it cannot be compared with New Orleans. New Orleans, NYC, and LA are the 3 cities that get the most coverage in French media (also Miami more and more). Add to that Montréal and Québec City and you've covered North America.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

And Queen Victoria was known as the grandmother of Europe.

Most of them toppled or executed after France's victory in WW1.

Famously 10 years after this picture (in London for the funerals of Edward VII) most of these kings (many of them grandchildren of Queen Victoria) would be killed or toppled:



I don't think any ruling monarch in Europe today is a direct male descendant of Queen Victoria. There may be some who descend from her via female line, but not that many (Charles III of course, and perhaps 1 more).

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Most of them toppled or executed after France's victory in WW1.

France's victory? You seem to be forgetting the contributions from the UK, the Commonwealth, the USA and Russia.