Confederation Line West LRT Extension (Stage 2) [Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

So they just opened this separate BRT link from Bayshore to Moodie 2 weeks ago and as it turns out drivers mistake it for a highway ramp at Holy Acres and turn into it even though there are all kinds of signs telling them not to.
Now they have a special constable sitting there with lights on every day. Good planning :slow_clap:

The on-ramp at Holy Acres is still open isn't it? From what I can tell it looks like it is intermediately to the left of the transitway, which certainly would be confusing as people aren't used to driving to the left of oncoming traffic. Being winter doesn't help as paint on the road is often covered with salt and snow.

They should move the intersection for the on-ramp about 30 or 40 m to the south-east to provide more of a barrier between the on-ramp and the busway.

[J.OT13]

Luckily, the 40 million dollar Transitway extension will be closed and demolished in 2 years.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Luckily, the 40 million dollar Transitway extension will be closed and demolished in 2 years.

It will be a bit more than 2 years and it won't be demolished. Construction for the western extension starts in 2020 (fall I think), but most of the initial development will be the tunnels. I'm guessing they won't need to take the new busway out of commission until late 2021 or early 2022, so in about 4 years.

Most of the money spent will be a direct savings for the LRT extension. I suspect most of the cost was for the overpass, and that will still be necessary for LRT, as will the sound barriers. Only the asphalt and temporary bus shelters (and maybe a bit of ground prep near Holly Acres, where they will be grade separating) will need to be removed, and those don't cost much.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by roger1818

It will be a bit more than 2 years and it won't be demolished. Construction for the western extension starts in 2020 (fall I think), but most of the initial development will be the tunnels. I'm guessing they won't need to take the new busway out of commission until late 2021 or early 2022, so in about 4 years.

Most of the money spent will be a direct savings for the LRT extension. I suspect most of the cost was for the overpass, and that will still be necessary for LRT. Only the asphalt and temporary bus shelters (and maybe a bit of ground prep near Holly Acres, where they will be grade separating) will need to be removed, and those don't cost much.

I noticed that the actual station didn't match the rendering. I'm quite glad they had some sense and only threw up a temporary station rather then one they'd have to demolish.

[J.OT13]

I would need to check out the extension in person, but I'm sure that if we calculate the asphalt, the extra width built to accommodate buses vs trains, bus shelters, different draining and lighting needs, building and demolishing part of the Transitway where grade separation will be needed for lrt... it will end up costing us 20 to 30 million more than going straight to lrt. No matter how we look at it, building a Transitway, shutting it down 2-3 years later and converting it to rail is more expensive than building rail in the first place.

The Moodie O-Train extension was predictable. No reason why the City wasted 40 million dollars on an interim bus corridor that wasn't needed.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day.

Notice of Completion and EPR posted on City of Ottawa :

https://ottawa.ca/en/bayshore-moodie...-assessment-ea

Go down to the last heading.
Caution - 196 pages in the main document.

EnJoy!

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

So they just opened this separate BRT link from Bayshore to Moodie 2 weeks ago and as it turns out drivers mistake it for a highway ramp at Holy Acres and turn into it even though there are all kinds of signs telling them not to.
Now they have a special constable sitting there with lights on every day. Good planning :slow_clap:

2 weeks later we have two new signs and one more constable

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

2 weeks later we have two new signs and one more constable

Even with the new signs that is a very awkward looking intersection. No surprise there is confusion.

[waterloowarrior]

That is awkward. All of a driver's training and experience will tell them to keep right of a median when turning onto a road. As part of the decision to go ahead with Stage 2, grade separation at Holy Acres was deferred, which does make sense but it will be awkward for a while. The LRT will be built closer to the 417.

the traffic memo speaks to some of the anticipated impacts from DND.
http://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/doc...fic%20Memo.pdf

[PHrenetic]

Good Day.

OK, so, the reason I first joined the forum was to comment on the platform size I noted when the plans came out for New Orchard, Cleary, and others, that the 90 metre platforms construction size was being continued (no problem, per se, for the present), but that the protection for future expansion was only to 100 metres in most, if not all, Stage 2 stations - not 120 metres as in Stage 1 stations.
Well..... they are continuing that lesser protection, only 100 metre protection, in the EPR for Moodie LRT station (pg.67 (Page 53)). This is now virtually immortalizing the standard in stone, which severely restricts future capacity growth by merely adding an 11 metre segment to each vehicle (easily done, and within the capability of the vehicles, as a design feature) along with adding the 30 metres in add-on construction.
( IE. the 48 metre vehicle becomes 59 metres long, for a two vehicle train of 118 metres, and the platfoms grow from 90 to 120 metres)
Is this a furthur sign of cheaping out now on the part of the City (read Photo-Op Jim), to the detriment of the future ? Paranoid me says yes ! <groan / sigh>

NoJoy!

[1overcosc]

100m should be just enough for the ultimate design, actually.

The final length of the trains (once they enlarge them to their maximum length later on) is 59m, or 118m coupled. I took a close look at the diagram of the trains and measured the pixel lengths between the farthest two doors. Assuming the diagram is to scale, on the full 118m train design, at each end there is 10 metres between the farthest part of the door and the head/tail of the train, so the "door span" is only 98 metres total. So with automated braking, 100m is just enough space for all the doors to be accessible from the platform.

My guess is that the reason why the Phase 1 stations were designed to be protected for 120m lengths was because they didn't yet know the design of the trains (that being for the consortium to decide later), so went above to be cautious. Now that they know that 98m is sufficient, Phase 2 is being designed with only 100m of ultimate space.

The 118m train design (or 98m doorspan) has a capacity of 740 passengers per train. With a maximum headway of 90s, they could accommodate about 30,000 passengers per hour total, or nearly three times the initial peak period ridership. If the city's population grows by 1% a year (as it has for most of our history), even if Confederation Line's ridership growth is, say, two times faster than the city's overall growth, we wouldn't hit capacity until the 2060s. If ridership grows around the same rate as the city's population, it won't hit capacity until well into the 22nd century.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day.

You're a better pixcellator than I, Gunga Din !

My best estimates had the current 90 metre platforms comfortably ( just ) accommodating the current 96 metre trains, door-to-door.

We shall see. Thx.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Yeah, I don't see bus stop on Carling. The buses are totally doing the loop. I guess they only view buses as shuttles for LRT.

If they could have the south entrance just a little more south to have the entrance plaza right on Carling...

I really hope the NCC an City work together to sell off the land and build TOD over the station.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If they could have the south entrance just a little more south to have the entrance plaza right on Carling...

I really hope the NCC an City work together to sell off the land and build TOD over the station.

If you look at the bottom of the picture there is a new traffic light acting as a crosswalk. I believe their plan (as of now) is to have buses that are continuing east on Carling (like the 85) not enter the station loop and have passengers disembark on Carling and cross via the traffic signal to access the station.

Unfortunately it looks like westbound buses might enter the loop which I hope they don't because that would add 1.5-3 minutes extra on that trip.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by MountainView

If you look at the bottom of the picture there is a new traffic light acting as a crosswalk. I believe their plan (as of now) is to have buses that are continuing east on Carling (like the 85) not enter the station loop and have passengers disembark on Carling and cross via the traffic signal to access the station.

Unfortunately it looks like westbound buses might enter the loop which I hope they don't because that would add 1.5-3 minutes extra on that trip.

I don't know... I haven't seen any plans show an EB stop either. I think they are planning to have ALL buses go into the loop. They seem extremely adamant about their fair-paid zone transfers... to the detriment of transit service.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Yeah, I don't see bus stop on Carling. The buses are totally doing the loop. I guess they only view buses as shuttles for LRT.

What station is that supposed to be? Trillium Carling?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

What station is that supposed to be? Trillium Carling?

Lincoln Fields.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I really hope the NCC an City work together to sell off the land and build TOD over the station.

I wish more cities would sell/lease the land above their stations for TOD. It could be a very good deal for the city as not only do they get additional revenue, but one of the conditions could be that the developer must maintain the ground level public entrance to the station.

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

I don't know... I haven't seen any plans show an EB stop either. I think they are planning to have ALL buses go into the loop. They seem extremely adamant about their fair-paid zone transfers... to the detriment of transit service.

Will Lincoln Fields have a fair-paid zone for buses? Even St. Laurent won't have one, which will have as many if not more buses than Lincoln Fields will have after stage 2.

Then again, if buses continuing on Carling don't pull into the loop, few routes would actually use the loop (maybe just the 153 and 154). In fact, with the New Orchard station on Richmond, I suspect the 153 (and 16) will be rerouted and not serve Lincoln Fields anymore and the 97 will likely end at Bayshore (the 11 will provide transfers from Richmond to the LRT). As for the 301, 303 and 305, without the transitway, they would likely be rerouted to Woodroffe. If all that happens, only the 85 and 154 would stop at Lincoln Fields.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Will Lincoln Fields have a fair-paid zone for buses? Even St. Laurent won't have one, which will have as many if not more buses than Lincoln Fields will have after stage 2.

Then again, if buses continuing on Carling don't pull into the loop, few routes would actually use the loop (maybe just the 153 and 154). In fact, with the New Orchard station on Richmond, I suspect the 153 (and 16) will be rerouted and not serve Lincoln Fields anymore and the 97 will likely end at Bayshore (the 11 will provide transfers from Richmond to the LRT). As for the 301, 303 and 305, without the transitway, they would likely be rerouted to Woodroffe. If all that happens, only the 85 and 154 would stop at Lincoln Fields.

Yes, Lincoln Fields is a fair paid zone; passengers from the bus loops have their own entrance, which is fenced off from non-passenger pedestrian traffic. And as you've pointed out, even if the 97 continues to service Lincoln Fields, the Lincoln Fields bus loop is super over-built. Its going to be another Hurdman (overly large bus loop with several platforms they don't use). I'm not sure why the designers at the City are incapable of fact-checking the requirements OC Transpo is giving them, because Lincoln Fields is being built as if there will be more bus traffic there after Stage 2 not drastically less as is the reality.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I wish more cities would sell/lease the land above their stations for TOD. It could be a very good deal for the city as not only do they get additional revenue, but one of the conditions could be that the developer must maintain the ground level public entrance to the station.

The STM got the authorization from the province last year to do just that.