O-Train Line 1/3 [Stage 2 | West Extension | Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

It would have been far better for the City to position the future Baseline Station on the sides of the Navaho Bridge over the tunnel. That would mean that the future Baseline Rapid Transit buses could simply stay on Navaho across Woodroffe. Is the City really ‘planning’ to have the Baseline ‘Rapid’ Transit weave through the Algonquin College campus over speed bumps? That is crazy! Who comes up with this stuff.

The Baseline BRT plan has the buses staying on Navaho, not entering the AC campus as they do now. There is a BRT stop on Navaho, though it is more a traditional bus stop than a BRT stop as the busway is not continuous along Navaho.

[Richard Eade]

Ah, then you must have newer information than I have. The last thing I saw was that both the Navaho and the Algonquin routing were being carried ahead for further study.

Yes, if the 'Rapid' bus stayed on Navaho between the College residence and the College Square shopping area, it would avoid the speed humps in front of the residence. Unfortunately, I can see OC Transpo wanting to do what they are currently (well, not during the strike, but normally) doing and running the buses along in front of the residence and then through the intersection back out to Navaho. And, it is still possible (notwithstanding your newer information) that OC Transpo will try to revive their bus routing between the College building up to College Ave., thus encountering several more speed humps.

It does not appear, from the latest available images of the future Baseline Station, that the Baseline Rapid Transit route will continue (as I stated) on Navaho across Woodroffe. With the station up at College Ave., it is much move likely that the 'Rapid' buses will turn from Navaho onto Woodroffe (there are bus-only lanes along Woodroffe between Navaho and College Ave.), then turn in on College, then around the bus loop at the Baseline Station, then somehow the 'Rapid' bus will weave to Constellation and back to Baseline Rd.

If the station was at the Navaho end of the tunnel, then the 'Rapid' buses could go straight across Woodroffe, remaining on Navaho, and continue to Constellation, then Baseline Rd. There would not be a 'Fare-Paid' zone at Baseline Station for these buses but, frankly, I don't really see a huge benefit in by-passing the fare gates and not providng OC Transpo with the information about rider's transfers.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

It is much move likely that the 'Rapid' buses will turn from Navaho onto Woodroffe (there are bus-only lanes along Woodroffe between Navaho and College Ave.), then turn in on College, then around the bus loop at the Baseline Station, then somehow the 'Rapid' bus will weave to Constellation and back to Baseline Rd.

Yes, this is what I've gathered from both the Baseline BRT boards and the Stage 2 documents. It is ridiculous, and anything but Rapid. Like you say, putting the station on the north side of the tunnel under Navaho would improve the Baseline BRT routing immensely.

Of course now we will be told its "too late" to change the plans, and that we should have expressed our concerns earlier in the process... ignoring the fact that the bus station plans around Baseline Station were incredibly vague up until the very last minute.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Ah, then you must have newer information than I have. The last thing I saw was that both the Navaho and the Algonquin routing were being carried ahead for further study.

Yes, if the 'Rapid' bus stayed on Navaho between the College residence and the College Square shopping area, it would avoid the speed humps in front of the residence.

If only speed humps weren't permanent, and once installed, could be removed somehow.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

If only speed humps weren't permanent, and once installed, could be removed somehow.

These are speed bumps on a private (college) road. I do not have an issue with them being there, pedestrian traffic in that area is very high.

OC Transpo prefers to operate on public roads. Moving to Navaho, as they are currently during the strike, saves travel times and adds only a few metres of walking for transit passengers. I can't see any reason they would stay on the college's internal roads, which they do now largely to avoid making the turn from the internal college road that's currently closed onto Navaho Eastbound.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Catenary

These are speed bumps on a private (college) road. I do not have an issue with them being there, pedestrian traffic in that area is very high.

So are transit frequencies; speed humps are nauseating and even dangerous, given how often bus drivers do not adequately adjust their speeds when operating a standing-room-only vehicle.

Horizontal traffic-calming measures should have been used first. Speed bumps do not belong on transit routes, or vice-versa.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

So are transit frequencies; speed humps are nauseating and even dangerous, given how often bus drivers do not adequately adjust their speeds when operating a standing-room-only vehicle.

Horizontal traffic-calming measures should have been used first. Speed bumps do not belong on transit routes, or vice-versa.

Don't you also complain about weaving side to side on buses as well?

The unfortunate reality is that walkable streets, open to general traffic, are generally incompatible with operating the highest standards transit services. If you have a street that allows large, heavy vehicles to move down it at a reasonable speed, smaller passenger vehicles are going to take advantage of that, and their speed and actions will tend to be unsafe. There is a tradeoff, and actions can be taken to permit transit while slowing general traffic (BRT), but when it comes down to a decision I will generally fall on the side that creates a walkable street that slows traffic, even if that traffic includes buses.

In this case though, OC Transpo should be operating on Navaho, and the plans show that that will be in the future.

[Radster]

Is there any information on how many of the 11 stations will be underground, and how many of the 15km will be tunneled? Just curious to see what the final numbers will be once stage 2 opens, in addition to the tunnel and 3 underground stations we get in Stage 1. Also, in Stage 1, is St-Laurent considered underground?

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Radster

Is there any information on how many of the 11 stations will be underground, and how many of the 15km will be tunneled? Just curious to see what the final numbers will be once stage 2 opens, in addition to the tunnel and 3 underground stations we get in Stage 1. Also, in Stage 1, is St-Laurent considered underground?

The west extension will have approx. 3 km of cut and cover tunnel between Dominion and Lincoln Fields. There will be another approx. 500m of tunnel through the Queenview Heights community, before Queensview Station.

I would consider St. Laurent to be underground, so in total we have,
Stage 1:

• Lyon
• Parliament
• Rideau
• St. Laurent

Stage 2:

• Cleary
• New Orchard
• Baseline

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

The west extension will have approx. 3 km of cut and cover tunnel between Dominion and Lincoln Fields. There will be another approx. 500m of tunnel through the Queenview Heights community, before Queensview Station.

I would consider St. Laurent to be underground, so in total we have,
Stage 1:

• Lyon
• Parliament
• Rideau
• St. Laurent

Stage 2:

• Cleary
• New Orchard
• Baseline

Even on one of the Ready4Rail posters they have on bus stops downtown they mention St Laurent as underground, which it is. It's just not a *new* underground station, since it was already there before. New Orchard will be sort of an underground-ish station, it's underground yet open to the sky above. Pimisi might also turn undergroundish if they cover the tracks as part of the Lebreton flats project. The St Laurent tunnel is about 250m. So I guess in total we'll end up with about 6.5km underground after stage 2.

[McC]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

New Orchard will be sort of an underground-ish station, it's underground yet open to the sky above.

that would also apply to Cyrville, Tremblay, Lees, Tunney's and Westboro.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by McC

that would also apply to Cyrville, Tremblay, Lees, Tunney's and Westboro.

Except Cleary is at a tunnel entrance, the others are in trenches. Given that it is cut and cover, they just won't cover where the concourses are.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Except Cleary is at a tunnel entrance, the others are in trenches. Given that it is cut and cover, they just won't cover where the concourses are.

Actually Cleary is well in the middle of the tunnel (since it starts near Dominion and ends near Lincoln Fields). So is New Orchard, it's in the tunnel, but you can see on the EA page 25 (http://www.stage2lrt.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Environmental-Assessment-Report.pdf) they plan to open the actual platform to the sky above. That's unlike the stations that are under bridges or in trenches, or you could say the station itself is a trench with a tunnel at both ends.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Even on one of the Ready4Rail posters they have on bus stops downtown they mention St Laurent as underground, which it is. It's just not a *new* underground station, since it was already there before. New Orchard will be sort of an underground-ish station, it's underground yet open to the sky above. Pimisi might also turn undergroundish if they cover the tracks as part of the Lebreton flats project. The St Laurent tunnel is about 250m. So I guess in total we'll end up with about 6.5km underground after stage 2.

Which bus stop? Although St-Laurent is underground in my minds eye (and many others I'm sure), I've never seen the City list it as underground.

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Actually Cleary is well in the middle of the tunnel (since it starts near Dominion and ends near Lincoln Fields). So is New Orchard, it's in the tunnel, but you can see on the EA page 25 (http://www.stage2lrt.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Environmental-Assessment-Report.pdf) they plan to open the actual platform to the sky above. That's unlike the stations that are under bridges or in trenches, or you could say the station itself is a trench with a tunnel at both ends.

But the legend says it will be an underground platform. Would they have decided to just bury it when they re-aligned the tunnel?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

But the legend says it will be an underground platform. Would they have decided to just bury it when they re-aligned the tunnel?

I was about to reply saying the same thing when I realized pg. 25 is actually talking about New Orchard station and even newer documents say it will be open.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I was about to reply saying the same thing when I realized pg. 25 is actually talking about New Orchard station and even newer documents say it will be open.

I was referring to new orchard... Sorry for any confusion. As for the poster I can't remember where I saw it... But if I see it again I'll take a picture

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Catenary

Don't you also complain about weaving side to side on buses as well?

Yup.

The unfortunate reality is that walkable streets, open to general traffic, are generally incompatible with operating the highest standards transit services. If you have a street that allows large, heavy vehicles to move down it at a reasonable speed, smaller passenger vehicles are going to take advantage of that, and their speed and actions will tend to be unsafe. There is a tradeoff, and actions can be taken to permit transit while slowing general traffic (BRT), but when it comes down to a decision I will generally fall on the side that creates a walkable street that slows traffic, even if that traffic includes buses.

Yup. Which is why, if a bus absolutely has to run on a "traffic-calmed" street, the traffic-calming measure should be to narrow the running way to force traffic to slow down. No bumps, no weaving required. The bus just continues to move in a straight line, just slower.

[zzptichka]

So they just opened this separate BRT link from Bayshore to Moodie 2 weeks ago and as it turns out drivers mistake it for a highway ramp at Holy Acres and turn into it even though there are all kinds of signs telling them not to.
Now they have a special constable sitting there with lights on every day. Good planning :slow_clap:

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

So they just opened this separate BRT link from Bayshore to Moodie 2 weeks ago and as it turns out drivers mistake it for a highway ramp at Holy Acres and turn into it even though there are all kinds of signs telling them not to.
Now they have a special constable sitting there with lights on every day. Good planning :slow_clap:

I drive by this every morning and twice I've seen a car on it... one was doing a back and forth U-Turn after he/she apparently realized their mistake.... I could just picture a bus blazing along at full speed while that was going on...

[MountainView]

Haven't driven past this since it opened... did they eliminate the 417W on-ramp there? Or are they basically right beside each other?