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  #1141  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2021, 6:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
I read some comments suggesting that prices did actually peak shortly at $1.99 per litre on Friday night, but I have not seen any photo to confirm that.

With regards to Trans-Mountain pipeline, what is the cause for the closure? Are they checking the entire line for possible ruptures or did the pipeline actually experience confirmed damage from the washouts? Isn't most of it buried fairly deep in the ground, so it is likely fairly resistant to such damage.

Good thing they are twinning it, as all of this just goes to tell how fragile our dependency on energy is and no matter what the green activists say, it is cars and oil that keep the modern society going.
the guy from TMX on CKNW said that sections of the pipeline are submerged underwater and they need to deal with that problem.

it's not all underground

ipolitics.ca
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  #1142  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2021, 4:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
I assume someone was talking about premium gas. The pipeline is operating at lower capacity until they verify everything on the line is okay. It's not buried as deep as you think. But they're twinning it next to the existing pipeline so I doubt it will remove much if any risk from a catastrophic event.
The pipeline was fully shut down for safety reasons. They are doing a visual inspection of the entire line, and expect it to be operational again at the end of the week.

As I understand some areas were flooded in the valley over the line but that's not a huge concern.

They didn't really say if they've identified areas that needed any repair. Nothing significant I'm sure.
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  #1143  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2021, 8:28 PM
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  #1144  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
The pipeline was fully shut down for safety reasons. They are doing a visual inspection of the entire line, and expect it to be operational again at the end of the week.

As I understand some areas were flooded in the valley over the line but that's not a huge concern.

They didn't really say if they've identified areas that needed any repair. Nothing significant I'm sure.
Must have been the natural gas line that was at reduced capacity?

Quote:
Enbridge Inc. also temporarily shut down a segment of one of two pipelines that make up its Westcoast natural gas pipeline last week due to the heavy flooding in B.C.

Enbridge says it was able to maintain natural gas service in spite of the event and has since increased capacity on the system. It says the Westcoast pipeline is now transporting 1.63 billion cubic feet per day of natural gas, above 100 per cent of total contracted volume transported last year at this time.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8394009/trans-mountain-pipeline-flooding-british-columbia-restart/

Last edited by jollyburger; Nov 24, 2021 at 1:48 AM.
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  #1145  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 3:08 AM
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I guess getting supplies from Washington is going to be tough with their dependence on the pipeline as well (in 2011 it was around 20%).

Quote:
A refinery that supplies an estimated one-third of the gas to the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island said Tuesday it has stopped processing operations because it had run out of crude oil due to the Trans Mountain pipeline shutdown after last week’s catastrophic flooding.

Calgary-based Parkland Corp.’s Burnaby refinery is now in “standby mode,” so that it can resume processing quickly once new shipments of crude arrive via the pipeline or rail.

“Parkland maintains some crude-oil storage on-site, so up until today, it has been able to continue operations,” said Kent Fellows, a professor at the University of Calgary’s School of Public Policy.

He said there is storage of crude oil as well as gasoline and diesel in the Lower Mainland that can be relied upon in the short run, but he hasn’t been able to find data on how much storage there is or how full it was before the flooding.

Three of the main ways gas is supplied to the Lower Mainland and elsewhere in B.C. were disrupted by the flooding.

“Trans Mountain would also normally be shipping about 27,000 barrels per day of gasoline and diesel from refineries near Edmonton to the Lower Mainland in B.C.,” said Fellows.

U.S. imports are still running, but they usually only account for 12 per cent of the total gas supply, an estimate Fellows based on his analysis of information from a recent B.C. Utilities Commission report. It’s a much smaller base amount even as there are reports of barges with gasoline heading to B.C. from the U.S.

While Parkland normally supplies about 33 per cent of the gas to the Lower Mainland and the Island, refineries in Edmonton, shipping via Trans Mountain, usually supply about 32 per cent, and the same refineries, shipping via rail, supply about 23 per cent, said Fellows. He explained these are ballpark figures from his peer-reviewed and published research, but the exact data is often proprietary and not public.

“It’s no small piece of infrastructure” that has been impacted, agreed Toronto-based fuel analyst Dan McTeague, who is president of Canadians for Affordable Energy.

McTeague added there are some small fuel terminals in the Burrard Inlet, but their supply wouldn’t be significant enough to have an impact.

He said that, in terms of U.S. imports, it’s important to remember that while there are refineries in Seattle that can be tapped, the pipeline supplies 150,000 barrels of oil every day for three of the big five refineries in the Puget Sound and Anacortes areas of Washington state.

Some of these refineries do have the option of importing crude from elsewhere if it came to that extreme, said Martin King, a senior analyst who looks at Canadian gasoline supply for Houston-based consulting firm RBN Energy, LLC.

Nevertheless, “these are pretty limited pieces of infrastructure that can’t in themselves make up what the Trans Mountain pipeline does, and the longer that pipeline is out, obviously, the more disruptions you are going to create and the more significant the shortages may come to be,” said McTeague.

Trans Mountain said Tuesday afternoon that “if all planning and work continues to progress and no further issues with the pipeline are assessed, (it) is optimistic that we can restart the pipeline, in some capacity, by the end of the week. Key to successful execution of the restart plan will be access for equipment, fair weather and no new findings of concern.”
https://vancouversun.com/business/refine...lower-mainland-gas-runs-out-of-crude-oil

Last edited by jollyburger; Nov 24, 2021 at 4:00 AM.
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  #1146  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 6:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
I would think that an American chain like Walmart always has the option of temporarily sourcing from their American distribution centres. Much harder for Canadian groceries, although Darrell Jones said that he would even hire helicopters to supply locations such as Hope.
Bulk importing food to Canadian markets requires approval by Health Canada, even if it's a product already sold here. Canada for example mandates that packaging must have nutritional information and ingredients listed in a certain manner. If you have ever gone to a store and in the foreign goods section they have imported items and the nutritional information is an adhesive label stuck to the back, that's what you need at the minimum to get on shelves and its something you can't do when the food is already in the logistics chain.
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  #1147  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 7:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MIPS View Post
Bulk importing food to Canadian markets requires approval by Health Canada, even if it's a product already sold here. Canada for example mandates that packaging must have nutritional information and ingredients listed in a certain manner. If you have ever gone to a store and in the foreign goods section they have imported items and the nutritional information is an adhesive label stuck to the back, that's what you need at the minimum to get on shelves and its something you can't do when the food is already in the logistics chain.
... and in French!
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  #1148  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 10:14 AM
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Daily Hive had one of the better suggestions with regular prices up to 30L and then a higher price beyond that (probably impossible with their payment systems to quickly setup)

Quote:
Appealing to people’s morals can have a downside when they see in the media people breaking those same rules, filling up gas cans and jumping from station to station to avoid the limit, said Shariff.

“When you see a bunch of people flouting that morally important thing to do it gets you to lose trust in the collective, which makes it harder to maintain trust that it’s the right thing to do,” he said.

“What’s visible is the people in the lines. The people sitting at home choosing not to get gas aren’t on Twitter. So it creates a bit of a distortion.”

Still, it doesn’t mean the government’s gas solution is perfect.

Both Shariff and Pavlov see merit in government allowing some gas price increases to deter hoarding. Pavlov suggested the capped rate for the first 30 litres, and then surcharges on those who want more.

A clearer timeline, with updated end dates and supply information, would also help fill an information gap that people are otherwise filling in their own minds in a negative way, said Shariff.
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-gas-rationing-response
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  #1149  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
Must have been the natural gas line that was at reduced capacity?
No, TransMountain was fully shut down for safety. It's been on the news, not sure why you keep insisting otherwise.
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  #1150  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
No, TransMountain was fully shut down for safety. It's been on the news, not sure why you keep insisting otherwise.
There's more than pipeline.
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  #1151  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 9:17 PM
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They want to add a drive-thru A&W/convenience store to the Petro-Canada at SE Marine Drive & Fraser. They'll have four storage tanks 50K Diesel, 100K regular (2x50), 50K Ultra. Never knew that 89 was just a blend of regular and ultra

https://shapeyourcity.ca/710-se-marine-dr
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  #1152  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 9:21 PM
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Aren't new drive thrus banned in Vancouver? Or do they already have one at this location?
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  #1153  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 9:27 PM
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Aren't new drive thrus banned in Vancouver? Or do they already have one at this location?
There's no A&W there, I think they're building over some of the pumps and a service garage.

I don't think they are banned in a 2012 article they said they approved an application five years earlier so it's more likely they aren't handed out easily.

Quote:
In addition, Vancouver planners haven’t approved a new drive-through for at least five years, according to the City of Vancouver’s manager of communications, Barb Floden. (The city doesn’t keep track of how many businesses have applied for one, she explained.)
https://www.straight.com/article-580386/...throughs-leave-car-captives-wanting-more

Not sure if this is current but the CoV had this on their website

Quote:
These guidelines are to be used in conjunction with a district schedule of the Zoning and Development
By-law or with an official development plan by-law for conditional use approval of a drive-in restaurant
or a drive-through service. Drive-in restaurant and drive-through service are defined in Section 2 of the
Zoning and Development By-law.
A drive-in restaurant or drive-through service should be designed and located to minimize visual, traffic
and noise impacts on neighbouring development.
Where the site is adjacent to a residential use or district, the drive-in restaurant or drive-through service
should be located so that:
(a) residences are separated from any audible communication devices by an adequate distance
and/or an acoustical barrier;
(b) drive-through services are located on the site as far away as possible from adjacent residences;
and
(c) lanes designated for drive-through service are not located immediately adjacent to residential
development.
A drive-in restaurant or drive-through service should not be permitted in a pedestrian-oriented
commercial area.
A drive-in restaurant or drive-through service will not be permitted in industrial districts where the traffic
generated will unduly interfere with the operation of the surrounding industrial activities
https://guidelines.vancouver.ca/guidelines-drive-in-restaurant-drive-through-service.pdf
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  #1154  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2021, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
Aren't new drive thrus banned in Vancouver? Or do they already have one at this location?
That sounds like another Vancouver garbage policy. Ugh. I think there is a drive-through Triple-O with Chevron next door .
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  #1155  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2021, 1:30 AM
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announced today that the TMX pipeline will not open by the end of this week an dthey don't seem to have a firm date yet as to when it will reopen, there is still a barge of gas coming up from the states apparently.

B.C. floods: Timeline to restart Trans Mountain pipeline in question

By Simon Little Global News
Posted November 25, 2021


Quote:
“With the continued deterioration of weather conditions in the region in the coming days, Trans Mountain is closely monitoring the situation to ensure our crews can continue to progress safely, particularly in areas still dependent on air support for access and provision of supplies and equipment,” Trans Mountain said in its latest online update.

“Work continues to progress towards a safe restart of the pipeline, in a reduced capacity. Key to successful execution of the restart plan will be access for equipment, fair weather, and no new findings of concern. A sustained effort will continue to return the system to its full capacity.”

Asked directly if the company still believed the line could be restarted by the end of the week, a spokesperson could not confirm an estimated time to resume operation.

“We are carefully monitoring the weather conditions to make sure we can safely progress. There is no update to the restart timeline at this stage,” the spokesperson said.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8403194/trans-mountain-restart-timeline-bc-floods/
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  #1156  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2021, 3:58 PM
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Esso doesn't seem to limit gas purchases beyond signs asking to only take 30 litres. I felt like such an outlaw yesterday, filling up 32.9 litres to spend the full $60.
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  #1157  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2021, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
Esso doesn't seem to limit gas purchases beyond signs asking to only take 30 litres. I felt like such an outlaw yesterday, filling up 32.9 litres to spend the full $60.
LOL I had the same experience at Esso. I was really near empty, and hadn't gotten gas since before the floods, so wasn't sure how it would work. I am not a big car guy, I don't really pay attention to how many litres my car usually takes, I honestly never look at that number and wouldn't have a clue. So I did go past 30L almost as a test, but also because I drive a long way to work, so really needed to fill-up, it was hoarding or planning for a big trip somewhere. But I did feel guilty a bit still. It ended up at 41L Do other gas stations actually shut the pump off at 30L, like automatically stops at 30L?
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  #1158  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2021, 9:29 PM
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Originally Posted by zahav View Post
LOL I had the same experience at Esso. I was really near empty, and hadn't gotten gas since before the floods, so wasn't sure how it would work. I am not a big car guy, I don't really pay attention to how many litres my car usually takes, I honestly never look at that number and wouldn't have a clue. So I did go past 30L almost as a test, but also because I drive a long way to work, so really needed to fill-up, it was hoarding or planning for a big trip somewhere. But I did feel guilty a bit still. It ended up at 41L Do other gas stations actually shut the pump off at 30L, like automatically stops at 30L?
Some stations are doing a dollar limit I believe.
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  #1159  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2021, 9:42 PM
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yea shell is. In Coquitlam all gas stations are full service so they would deal with it I suppose.
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  #1160  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2021, 6:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
In Coquitlam all gas stations are full service so they would deal with it I suppose.
I remember my colleague telling me about this and there was some reason for it, too, but I forget what it was. I hate full service stations, as it always feels awkward to use one.
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