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  #1  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2024, 2:33 AM
Myst Myst is offline
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I believe Australia has looser foreign ownership limits, which is often presented as a solution for Canada, but it hasn’t seemed to work, either. But people in the industry will also point out the expectations are part of the problem. In a country where YVR-YYZ is one of the busiest routes and is over 2000mi, you can’t expect $100 fares to be economically sustainable. And with traffic pretty heavily concentrated on about 10 routes, it’s also hard to say that splitting flights on 3 or 4 more carriers is really realistic, either - there isn’t enough traffic for 6 or 8 carriers to operate multiple flights per day.
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  #2  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2024, 2:05 AM
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Other than the 2hr delay, Porter was very good. The inflight was above par and seats incredible.
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  #3  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2024, 4:57 AM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by Coldrsx View Post
Other than the 2hr delay, Porter was very good. The inflight was above par and seats incredible.
Excellent. I've flown on PD's Dash 8s many times, but have yet to experience the E2s.
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  #4  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2024, 2:23 PM
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Porter launching YYZ-SAN and YYZ-PSP in December.
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  #5  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2024, 2:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RomanR27 View Post
Porter launching YYZ-SAN and YYZ-PSP in December.
SAN year-round 4x/wk and PSP seasonally 3x/wk: https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...40801361462/en

Wouldn't be surprised to see SAN go daily during the summer months.
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  #6  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2024, 3:28 PM
RomanR27 RomanR27 is online now
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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
SAN year-round 4x/wk and PSP seasonally 3x/wk: https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...40801361462/en

Wouldn't be surprised to see SAN go daily during the summer months.
Depending when they open their YVR base, I wouldn't be surprised to see them run those from YVR either.
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  #7  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2024, 7:59 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is online now
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
As much as I admire Porter's product, doesn't this sound like throwing darts and seeing where they land in order to utilize their a/c?
Not quite yet. They're almost there though. These routes, especially out of YYZ, make sense. YOW/YUL-LAS have the demand as well.

The next round of route announcements will be fun to watch though.

===========================================

On another note, look like Azores airlines is increasing service to YUL to year round. Pleasantly surprised to see this. One of the benefits of having A321neos it seems.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240801-s4nw24pdl
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  #8  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2024, 9:29 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by RomanR27 View Post
Depending when they open their YVR base, I wouldn't be surprised to see them run those from YVR either.
Perhaps way down the road. The YVR base (as per: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...883631684.html) is supposed to open in October with a staff of about 100. With a staff that size, initially I bet the YVR crew will be mostly flying YYZ/YOW/YUL-YVR with the odd non-YVR pairing thrown in there like YOW/YUL-YYZ as part of a RON.

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Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
Not quite yet. They're almost there though. These routes, especially out of YYZ, make sense. YOW/YUL-LAS have the demand as well.

The next round of route announcements will be fun to watch though.

===========================================

On another note, look like Azores airlines is increasing service to YUL to year round. Pleasantly surprised to see this. One of the benefits of having A321neos it seems.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240801-s4nw24pdl
Personally, I think there's still a whole pile of stuff PD can sensibly add before hitting a wall, be it year-round or seasonally over the next 5 years. Here's all the stuff I think seems reasonable (keep in mind not everything here would be daily & some could be as little as weekly winter seasonal on Saturdays):
-More frequency on some existing routes as they mature
-YYZ/YOW-YQR
-YOW-YXE
-YOW/YYZ-YLW
-YOW-YYJ
-YOW/YYZ-YDF
-YYZ-YQX/YYG/YQM/YFC/YSJ/YQT (1x daily early am departures would eat up a lot of the E95's underutilized slack as a lot of YYZ RONs currently leave around 0930-1030)
-YOW-LAX/SFO/PHX
-YOW/YUL-PBI/MIA
-YOW/YYZ/YUL-SRQ
-YUL-YWG
-YOW/YYZ to future airline partner hubs - both E95s & DH4s (an AA codeshare for PD only makes too much sense)
-YOW/YUL/YYZ/YHZ-CUN/VRA/PUJ/NAS/pick your sun destination
-YHU-YHZ/YYZ/YWG/YEG/YYC/YVR/YQM/YFC/YTZ (the latter three on DH4s)

DH4s:
-Increasing YTZ-YQG/YSB/YTS/YQB back up to 2x-3x daily each like they were pre-pandemic & YUL/YOW-YTZ from 8x to 9x.
-YOW-YHM/YKF/YXU/MDW (2x daily each)
-YOW-YQB/YQG/YSJ/YSB/YAM/YTS (1x daily each)
-YHZ-YQX/YQY
-YUL-YHM/YKF/YXU (1x daily each to feed the TS evening bank)


PD did say they've identified 9 potential YHU routes at the time of the terminal announcement, so I've listed 9 above. Only other ones that make sense are YYG, YYT and maybe a DH4 or two to YQB - but their future Pascan partnership would be better for the latter. I suppose YHU-YOW could also make sense to feed transborder/international at YOW as a compliment to YYZ...and maybe price local seats at under $500 one-way to actually generate a bit of O&D, lol.

While there's currently 3 DH4 tails of slack, all the suggested DH4 flying above would require probably around 6 additional tails. PD have said they're looking at acquiring more Dash 8s.

Last edited by Dominion301; Aug 2, 2024 at 3:43 AM.
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  #9  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2024, 10:07 PM
Djeffery Djeffery is online now
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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
While there's currently 3 DH4 tails of slack, all the suggested DH4 flying above would require probably around 6 additional tails. PD have said they're looking at acquiring more Dash 8s.
There's about a dozen of them from Europe sitting on the ground at St Thomas (south of London) just waiting for Porter to come grab them.
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  #10  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2024, 11:53 AM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
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Originally Posted by Djeffery View Post
There's about a dozen of them from Europe sitting on the ground at St Thomas (south of London) just waiting for Porter to come grab them.
How does that happen?
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  #11  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2024, 9:36 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
How does that happen?
Not sure what you are asking. How does what happen?
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  #12  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2024, 12:20 PM
samuelx88 samuelx88 is offline
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I would also add YQB/YOW-KEF or even seasonally from smaller Maritime cities such as YQM, YYG, YYT, etc. as a codeshare with Icelandair with their Embraer. If it is well timed it could work.

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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
Perhaps way down the road. The YVR base (as per: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...883631684.html) is supposed to open in October with a staff of about 100. With a staff that size, initially I bet the YVR crew will be mostly flying YYZ/YOW/YUL-YVR with the odd non-YVR pairing thrown in there like YOW/YUL-YYZ as part of a RON.



Personally, I think there's still a whole pile of stuff PD can sensibly add before hitting a wall, be it year-round or seasonally over the next 5 years. Here's all the stuff I think seems reasonable (keep in mind not everything here would be daily & some could be as little as weekly winter seasonal on Saturdays):
-More frequency on some existing routes as they mature
-YYZ/YOW-YQR
-YOW-YXE
-YOW/YYZ-YLW
-YOW-YYJ
-YOW/YYZ-YDF
-YYZ-YQX/YYG/YQM/YFC/YSJ/YQT (1x daily early am departures would eat up a lot of the E95's underutilized slack as a lot of YYZ RONs currently leave around 0930-1030)
-YOW-LAX/SFO/PHX
-YOW/YUL-PBI/MIA
-YOW/YYZ/YUL-SRQ
-YUL-YWG
-YOW/YYZ to future airline partner hubs - both E95s & DH4s (an AA codeshare for PD only makes too much sense)
-YOW/YUL/YYZ/YHZ-CUN/VRA/PUJ/NAS/pick your sun destination
-YHU-YHZ/YYZ/YWG/YEG/YYC/YVR/YQM/YFC/YTZ (the latter three on DH4s)

DH4s:
-Increasing YTZ-YQG/YSB/YTS/YQB back up to 2x-3x daily each like they were pre-pandemic & YUL/YOW-YTZ from 8x to 9x.
-YOW-YHM/YKF/YXU/MDW (2x daily each)
-YOW-YQB/YQG/YSJ/YSB/YAM/YTS (1x daily each)
-YHZ-YQX/YQY
-YUL-YHM/YKF/YXU (1x daily each to feed the TS evening bank)


PD did say they've identified 9 potential YHU routes at the time of the terminal announcement, so I've listed 9 above. Only other ones that make sense are YYG, YYT and maybe a DH4 or two to YQB - but their future Pascan partnership would be better for the latter. I suppose YHU-YOW could also make sense to feed transborder/international at YOW as a compliment to YYZ...and maybe price local seats at under $500 one-way to actually generate a bit of O&D, lol.

While there's currently 3 DH4 tails of slack, all the suggested DH4 flying above would require probably around 6 additional tails. PD have said they're looking at acquiring more Dash 8s.
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  #13  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2024, 12:52 PM
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I think YQM - YHU and YYZ are slam dunks, perhaps 1xdaily to YYZ and 2xdaily to YHU.

Existing frequencies to YTZ and YOW are fine. This would give Porter 6xdaily flights to YQM, which is about the same as Air Canada, and considerably more than WestJet (~3xdaily), and PAL (2xdaily).
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  #14  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2024, 6:48 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by samuelx88 View Post
I would also add YQB/YOW-KEF or even seasonally from smaller Maritime cities such as YQM, YYG, YYT, etc. as a codeshare with Icelandair with their Embraer. If it is well timed it could work.
PD will need to ETOPS (probably 90) a few E2s if they want to serve KEF. It certainly would make sense, especially from YOW if they and FI enter into a full-blown codeshare...but I don't think KEF is on PD's radar anytime soon.

Last edited by Dominion301; Aug 2, 2024 at 7:21 PM.
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  #15  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2024, 9:14 PM
hemustbeaboss hemustbeaboss is offline
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PD will need to ETOPS (probably 90) a few E2s if they want to serve KEF. It certainly would make sense, especially from YOW if they and FI enter into a full-blown codeshare...but I don't think KEF is on PD's radar anytime soon.
ETOPS not necessarily needed to serve KEF. Rouge used to operate YYZ KEF, no etops there. Currently at AC the 7M8 operates to KEF, but half the crews operating there are non ETOPS, so they fly the non etops route.
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  #16  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2024, 1:16 AM
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I just saw that Royal Air Maroc announcement too, interesting... The lines between YYZ and YUL continue to blur lol. First and most important, YUL has been getting a ton of AC growth to Europe over the last few years, really challenging the capacity out of YYZ even (YUL has almost all the same routes as YYZ, and then more to French cities of course). YUL is behind YYZ for Latin American still, but the gap has narrowed significantly and they both share a remarkable number of destinations now, used to be YYZ had everything, and YUL had none. Even for Asia, YUL is still significantly behind YYZ to Asia, but again, gap is narrowing a lot (with YUL serving Japan, Korea, and India now, I never would have thought that back in 2010. But there hasn't been a ton of movement the other way. Meaning, there hasn't been many Montreal exclusive routes or airlines that have gone to YYZ, the way YUL has gained destinations and/or airlines that were previously YYZ exclusive. Plus they have those unique routes to France and places like Guadeloupe and Martinique in the Caribbean.

Then comes the topic of Middle East/North Africa. YUL always used to have a monopoly on these routes, served by the likes of Air Marcoc, Tunisair, Air Algeria, Egyptair, Royal Jordanian, Emirates, and Qatar. YYZ had El Al, Saudia, Ethiopian, Emirates, and Etihad. So the balance was clearly to YUL. But YUL lost Egyptair to YYZ, YYZ was also added to the Royal Jordanian flights, and now Air Maroc serving both. YUL is still not losing out, it's not like there's been a real shift to YYZ or anything, just much more balanced service and growth for YUL and YYZ. And the types of destinations and geographic coverage are overlapping a lot, to the point where they are close to the same international offerings (don't bite my head off, I know YYZ is still bigger, just the spread between the two has really narrowed.

Sooooo.... I finally buckled down and did the number crunching for YYC's WS service this winter (I posted YVR, YEG, YWG, and YYZ numbers a couple pages back. Below are the YYC figures as close as I could see, I may have made many mistakes, but I tried to be careful and thorough. I am also reposting just the summary highlights for those other airports, just so you can see them altogether without having to go 2 pages back. NOTE: I hadn't done the YYC schedule before the updates, so can't make any comparisons the way I did for the other airports. But I assume growth in general, but just a guess

YYC
-919 weekly flights (667 mainline, 252 Encore)
-66 destinations (doesn't include WS codeshare routes)
~129,723 seats

YVR
-436 weekly flights (341 mainline, 95 Encore), compared to 434 flights before the latest update (300 mainline, 134 Encore)
-31 destinations (doesn't include WS codeshare routes), compared to 32 destinations pre-update
~60.930 seats (n/a)
-Increases in flight frequency to YYC, YEG, YLW (mainline portion only), YWG, YXE, FLL, LAS, ORL, PSP, PHX, MZT, and SJD (12 destinations)
-Decreases in flight frequency to YLW (for Encore service), YXS (Encore), YXT (Encore), ATL, SNA, HNL, OGG, and CUN (8 destinations)
-Frequency levels maintained to YYZ, YYJ, YXJ, YQQ, YXC, YCD, LAX, KOA, LIH, HUX, PVR, and ZIH (12 destinations)

YYZ
-333 weekly flights (all mainline), compared to 339 pre-update
-40 destinations (doesn't include WS codeshare routes), compared to 38 destinations pre-update
~53,406 seats
-Increases in flight frequency to YYC, YEG, YLW, YUL, YOW, AUA, LIR, SXM, GND, RTB, and TQO (11 destinations)
-Decreases in flight frequency to FLL, RSW, ORL, MBJ, NAS, PLS, PUJ, VRA, KIN, and SJU (10 destinations)
-Frequency levels maintained to YVR, YHZ, YWG, YQR, YXE, TPA, LAS, HUX, PVR, ANU, BGI, GCM, POP, UVF, BZE, CZM, CUR, MID and BON (19 destinations)

YEG
-315 weekly flights (235 mainline, 80 Encore), compared to 295 pre-update (197 mainline and 295 Encore)
-29 destinations (doesn't include WS codeshare routes), same as pre-update
~43,123 seats
-Increases in flight frequency to YYC (mainline portion only), YVR, YYX, YLW (mainline portion only), YYJ (mainline and Encore), YWG, YUL, YOW, CUN, HUX, and SJD (11 destinations)
-Decreases in flight frequency to YYC (Encore portion only), YYZ, YHZ, YLW (Encore portion only), YQQ, YMM, YQR, YXE, LAS, and PVR (10 destinations)
-Frequency levels maintained to YQU, YZF, MSP, LAX, ORL, HNL, OGG, PSP, PHX, and MZT (10 destinations)

YWG
-171 weekly flights (142 mainline, 29 Encore), compared to 138 pre-update (113 mainline and 25 Encore)
-22 destinations (doesn't include WS codeshare routes), compared to 19 pre-update
~24,549 seats
-Increases in flight frequency to YYC, YVR, YEG, YUL, YOW, YQR, ATL, FLL, PHX, CUN, MZT, SJD, PVR (13 destinations)
-Decreases in flight frequency to YYZ, LAS, ORL, and PSP (4 destinations)
-Frequency levels maintained to YQT, YXE, LAX, HUX and MBJ (5 destinations)

So obviously it's the behemoth we all knew it was for WS, no surprises to see these numbers for me. Total weekly flights is more than double the next highest YVR (about 2.1x more). Both the # of destinations served and total seats are also roughly 2.1x more than YVR. So clearly in its own league, and shocking to thing there was a time YYZ was bigger. Some random observations I made looking at the numbers for this winter (I know summer is different so these figures are only applicable for the sample week in December, not all the time):

-Mainline and Encore operate on 11 routes together, which is more than I would've thought. YVR only has 1 route that both operate on (YLW), otherwise all Encore destinations are only Encore, and mainline destinations are only mainline. But at YYC there's so many mish-mash routes that have mainline and Encore alternating through the day, and every day basically the schedule changes for # of flights and whether mainline or Encore operate more. I can tell you it made it miles harder to tabulate totals, since I had to count them separately but they are listed together on the airlines pages, so lots of manual calculations. But also it makes me wonder how WS managed for so long with only mainline 737 jets to all routes (before this starts a debate, I didn't mean to imply having only 737s was bad, maybe WS was better off in those days, I didn't say it for that reason). I said it because it appears by how much the Encore planes are used interchangebly with mainline that their lower capacity is beneficial for their overall service, and likely makes more sense to operate less busy days or times of day, and free up the 737 for one of the sun routes where it makes gangbusters. Who knows though, Encore could close and go back to mainline only, who knows! I have no idea how Encore is received at WS and what the financials look like. If Encore does disappear, there will be a lot of small towns and thinner regional route pairs that would be losing service. In WS's early days they kept adding random smaller centres to their route network, but then so many barely lasted because the 737 was just way too much plane. Encore helped that. But is that benefit of having some regional connectivity with smaller centres, plus the flexibility of interchanging 737 and DH4 to better serve routes, worth the complexity of not having a single aircraft fleet? I could see arguments for both sides. First off, Link is folding, so it's clear the much smaller destinations were not absolutely booming (I'm sure some or most do well, but in many cases the Encore replacements for Link routes is a capacity cut). Secondly, they axed all of Eastern Canada, just dismantled regional connectivity entirely at YYZ. And they aren't even that big in SK or MB, so it's basically just BC and AB that support Encore. YYC focused or not, I can't think it's a good situation to have a subsidiary only operate in a few provinces. But who knows, maybe I'm way off and Encore is crushing it. But for some reason, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets folded in. But for now, YYC sees a lot of mixed aircraft action on the same routes. But I could definitely see a return to all jets overall

-There are seven routes which both airports share that have more flights from YVR than YYC (YXS, YXT, HNL, OGG, KOA, SJD, and PVR). YXS and YXT are BC regional, so that's understandable. The three Hawaiian routes also make sense being more frequent from YVR than YYC, that's always been the case. I was a bit surprised by SJD and PVR though, I thought they'd have more flights from YYC than YVR. I should mention the 787 operates on YYC-PVR, so in terms of seats it's probably more, but still surprised YYC wasn't way ahead for weekly flights too. Again, YYC is so far ahead of anyone else in service, these observations are just that, and not meaning to imply that having more capacity on a handful of routes means anything. The fact is, it's the YYC show and everywhere else is just a bridesmaid lol

-remains to be seen how WG will intergrate, how much that will add to WS's capacity, if they will not replace some capacity, or what's going to happen. Needless to say it will boost YYZ's flight count, potentially enough to regain the #2 spot from YVR, it's definitely within the realm of possibility. But those Toronto-Sun routings have so much capacity on them, and so many competitors. Maybe WS would rather tighten the market a bit to boost fares and increase loads/yields. While Europe is shooing away tourists, Mexico is welcoming them with open arms, the growth in areas like Cancun is nuts, enough that they had to build another entire airport. I bet Mexico is going to benefit if people get turned off from Europe's major tourist jam cities. Don't get me wrong, what Europe offers is obviously different than Cancun or Tulum, but when people have limited vacation time and money, some might reconsider plans and do Mexico instead of Spain or whatever. So maybe WG is doing super well even with all the competition, but it's WS will merge them into WS, that seems enquivocally the plan. But they have moved the date of integration from Oct. 26 to late April 2025, basically leaving an entire winter season in tact. Totally makes sense, as soon as there was doubt that things wouldn't be ready for October, you have to move it all the way to April/May, you can't do something like that in the middle of the sun season, it would be idiotic. Best leave it until April/May doldrums, it will cause way less impact than doing it in December.

Ok I'm exhausted, this took a lot of energy to compile and analyze lol, I love doing it but it eats up lots of time. But when you love doing it, isn't a chore
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  #17  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2024, 3:36 AM
hehehe hehehe is offline
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-Mainline and Encore operate on 11 routes together, which is more than I would've thought. YVR only has 1 route that both operate on (YLW), otherwise all Encore destinations are only Encore, and mainline destinations are only mainline. But at YYC there's so many mish-mash routes that have mainline and Encore alternating through the day, and every day basically the schedule changes for # of flights and whether mainline or Encore operate more. I can tell you it made it miles harder to tabulate totals, since I had to count them separately but they are listed together on the airlines pages, so lots of manual calculations. But also it makes me wonder how WS managed for so long with only mainline 737 jets to all routes (before this starts a debate, I didn't mean to imply having only 737s was bad, maybe WS was better off in those days, I didn't say it for that reason). I said it because it appears by how much the Encore planes are used interchangebly with mainline that their lower capacity is beneficial for their overall service, and likely makes more sense to operate less busy days or times of day, and free up the 737 for one of the sun routes where it makes gangbusters. Who knows though, Encore could close and go back to mainline only, who knows! I have no idea how Encore is received at WS and what the financials look like. If Encore does disappear, there will be a lot of small towns and thinner regional route pairs that would be losing service. In WS's early days they kept adding random smaller centres to their route network, but then so many barely lasted because the 737 was just way too much plane. Encore helped that. But is that benefit of having some regional connectivity with smaller centres, plus the flexibility of interchanging 737 and DH4 to better serve routes, worth the complexity of not having a single aircraft fleet? I could see arguments for both sides. First off, Link is folding, so it's clear the much smaller destinations were not absolutely booming (I'm sure some or most do well, but in many cases the Encore replacements for Link routes is a capacity cut). Secondly, they axed all of Eastern Canada, just dismantled regional connectivity entirely at YYZ. And they aren't even that big in SK or MB, so it's basically just BC and AB that support Encore. YYC focused or not, I can't think it's a good situation to have a subsidiary only operate in a few provinces. But who knows, maybe I'm way off and Encore is crushing it. But for some reason, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets folded in. But for now, YYC sees a lot of mixed aircraft action on the same routes. But I could definitely see a return to all jets overall
Great analysis, much appreciated. I still think Encore has a role to play for the WS group, as I think the feed from the smaller western centres is important for the mainline flights. Encore still seems fairly strong in SK/MB (with the beefing up of YXE/YQR-YWG and also YYC/YEG-YXE/YQR). What I think may happen in the future is YYC/YEG-YQR/YXE, YYC-YLW, YYC-YEG, YYC-YQU/YMM etc might see Encore dropped for fewer frequencies on mainline aircraft instead (sort of like YYC-YQQ basically going fully mainline this winter) and YYC-YCD/YKA/YXS etc may see more mainline service replacing Encore (sort of like YYC-YZF). But I think Encore will always be around for YYC/YVR-YXJ, YYC-YYF/YBR/YXC/YXH/YQL etc. Maybe they take a stab at Castlegar one day, that's the only realistic market left for them to enter.
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  #18  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2024, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by hehehe View Post
Great analysis, much appreciated. I still think Encore has a role to play for the WS group, as I think the feed from the smaller western centres is important for the mainline flights. Encore still seems fairly strong in SK/MB (with the beefing up of YXE/YQR-YWG and also YYC/YEG-YXE/YQR). What I think may happen in the future is YYC/YEG-YQR/YXE, YYC-YLW, YYC-YEG, YYC-YQU/YMM etc might see Encore dropped for fewer frequencies on mainline aircraft instead (sort of like YYC-YQQ basically going fully mainline this winter) and YYC-YCD/YKA/YXS etc may see more mainline service replacing Encore (sort of like YYC-YZF). But I think Encore will always be around for YYC/YVR-YXJ, YYC-YYF/YBR/YXC/YXH/YQL etc. Maybe they take a stab at Castlegar one day, that's the only realistic market left for them to enter.
Logically, I agree that you are right. Encore provides flexibility for routes, connectivity, and frequency. And yes, I didn't realize their schedules in SK and MB were strong too, but they have a healthy share of WS operations in both cities. WS abandoning Encore and switching to full mainline would certainly impact lots of regional airports across western Canada, we know from past experience what it's like when WS is mainline only, it cuts frequencies, route pairs, and some destinations won't work at all. But just because it makes sense to us, doesn't mean it's working for WS. For all we know, they could be struggling to make the Encore ops work financially, who knows! It certainly wouldn't be the first time an operation that seems strong and logical to us outsiders is actually a loser for the company. But I hope it stays, it serves a very critical role in the west especially connecting smaller communities. But look at airlines like Southwest, they are staunch in their commitment to being a single aircraft company, and it is the 737, exactly the formula WS started with, and stuck to for decades. That's the only reason I'm not sure the behind the scenes reality, and if it has been a boom or bust. It certainly brings it more in line with how AC operates, with a vast network of smaller centres served by turboprops, some connecting point to point and others feeding the hubs. Air Canada is also no stranger to mixing mainline and Express operations on the same route pair, it's always seemed to work well for them to pull Express in when a route is softer or needs slightly more capacity, but not enough for a bigger mainline jet. AC wouldn't be able to function if it were to become only mainline jets like a Southwest. But I feel like WS could make it work that way (again).
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  #19  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2024, 11:55 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zahav View Post

And the types of destinations and geographic coverage are overlapping a lot,
to the point where they are close to the same international offerings (don't bite my head off, I know YYZ is still bigger, just the spread between the two has really narrowed.
Airlines clearly want to serve both.

RJ, EK, LX and now AT are the most recent examples.

QR is on record as wanting access to YYZ.
Ethiopian is on record wanting access to YUL. LOT has named YUL in their expansion plans in the past as well.

As bilaterals and/or airline fleets are expanded, you will see more airlines serving both airports (we can include YVR in this as well, so all three airports in fact). And why wouldn't they? A lot of international demand from both, as both have big diasporas from all over. They are two of the largest international markets in North America. So the increased overlap doesn't surprise me one bit.

Last edited by thenoflyzone; Aug 6, 2024 at 12:14 AM.
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  #20  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2024, 2:52 PM
Airboy Airboy is offline
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Calgary's air terminal took some significant water damage yesterday during some of the thunder storms. Sections on the terminal are closed off today.
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