Canadian Airport Thread II

[Myst]

I believe Australia has looser foreign ownership limits, which is often presented as a solution for Canada, but it hasn’t seemed to work, either. But people in the industry will also point out the expectations are part of the problem. In a country where YVR-YYZ is one of the busiest routes and is over 2000mi, you can’t expect $100 fares to be economically sustainable. And with traffic pretty heavily concentrated on about 10 routes, it’s also hard to say that splitting flights on 3 or 4 more carriers is really realistic, either - there isn’t enough traffic for 6 or 8 carriers to operate multiple flights per day.

[Coldrsx]

Other than the 2hr delay, Porter was very good. The inflight was above par and seats incredible.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Other than the 2hr delay, Porter was very good. The inflight was above par and seats incredible.

Excellent. I've flown on PD's Dash 8s many times, but have yet to experience the E2s.

[RomanR27]

Porter launching YYZ-SAN and YYZ-PSP in December.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Porter launching YYZ-SAN and YYZ-PSP in December.

SAN year-round 4x/wk and PSP seasonally 3x/wk: https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...40801361462/en

Wouldn't be surprised to see SAN go daily during the summer months.

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

SAN year-round 4x/wk and PSP seasonally 3x/wk: https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...40801361462/en

Wouldn't be surprised to see SAN go daily during the summer months.

Depending when they open their YVR base, I wouldn't be surprised to see them run those from YVR either.

[whatnext]

As much as I admire Porter's product, doesn't this sound like throwing darts and seeing where they land in order to utilize their a/c?

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by whatnext

As much as I admire Porter's product, doesn't this sound like throwing darts and seeing where they land in order to utilize their a/c?

Not at all. They all seem to be pretty sensible additions. SAN, PSP and LAS all seem like sensible adds, the latter two seasonally. The frame that will be operating the split winter seasonal 4x/3x YOW/YUL-LAS, I would not be surprised in the least to see that get redeployed to launch YOW-LAX/SFO summer seasonally.

Separately, YYZ-YQB is going to be discontinued at the end of the summer season. It was a poorly timed flight with low loads. Even though later in the summer the schedule is getting retimed for connections, PD still have it ending in late October. PD would be better off in the short-term adding a daily YQB-YOW DH4 to feed YOW. There's definitely slack in the DH4 schedule, even with the DH4 returning to YHZ-YOW/YUL/YYT for the winter months, which is offset by YOW-YFC/YQM/YYG/BOS/EWR all getting seasonally cut by 1x daily for the winter.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Not at all. They all seem to be pretty sensible additions. SAN, PSP and LAS all seem like sensible adds, the latter two seasonally. The frame that will be operating the split winter seasonal 4x/3x YOW/YUL-LAS, I would not be surprised in the least to see that get redeployed to launch YOW-LAX/SFO summer seasonally.

Separately, YYZ-YQB is going to be discontinued at the end of the summer season. It was a poorly timed flight with low loads. Even though later in the summer the schedule is getting retimed for connections, PD still have it ending in late October. PD would be better off in the short-term adding a daily YQB-YOW DH4 to feed YOW. There's definitely slack in the DH4 schedule, even with the DH4 returning to YHZ-YOW/YUL/YYT for the winter months, which is offset by YOW-YFC/YQM/YYG/BOS/EWR all getting seasonally cut by 1x daily for the winter.

Meh, there's a reason few airlines have bought into the E2 program. Can't see how they're going to be making money in the long term.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by whatnext

As much as I admire Porter's product, doesn't this sound like throwing darts and seeing where they land in order to utilize their a/c?

Seems to completely lack strategy for sure. They had their niche at YTO and could have moved into some of the underserved airports but they are attempting to have two bases in Toronto and compete head on against Air Canada. Good Luck!

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by whatnext

As much as I admire Porter's product, doesn't this sound like throwing darts and seeing where they land in order to utilize their a/c?

Not quite yet. They're almost there though. These routes, especially out of YYZ, make sense. YOW/YUL-LAS have the demand as well.

The next round of route announcements will be fun to watch though.

===========================================

On another note, look like Azores airlines is increasing service to YUL to year round. Pleasantly surprised to see this. One of the benefits of having A321neos it seems.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240801-s4nw24pdl

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

Depending when they open their YVR base, I wouldn't be surprised to see them run those from YVR either.

Perhaps way down the road. The YVR base (as per: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...883631684.html) is supposed to open in October with a staff of about 100. With a staff that size, initially I bet the YVR crew will be mostly flying YYZ/YOW/YUL-YVR with the odd non-YVR pairing thrown in there like YOW/YUL-YYZ as part of a RON.

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Not quite yet. They're almost there though. These routes, especially out of YYZ, make sense. YOW/YUL-LAS have the demand as well.

The next round of route announcements will be fun to watch though.

===========================================

On another note, look like Azores airlines is increasing service to YUL to year round. Pleasantly surprised to see this. One of the benefits of having A321neos it seems.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240801-s4nw24pdl

Personally, I think there's still a whole pile of stuff PD can sensibly add before hitting a wall, be it year-round or seasonally over the next 5 years. Here's all the stuff I think seems reasonable (keep in mind not everything here would be daily & some could be as little as weekly winter seasonal on Saturdays):
-More frequency on some existing routes as they mature
-YYZ/YOW-YQR
-YOW-YXE
-YOW/YYZ-YLW
-YOW-YYJ
-YOW/YYZ-YDF
-YYZ-YQX/YYG/YQM/YFC/YSJ/YQT (1x daily early am departures would eat up a lot of the E95's underutilized slack as a lot of YYZ RONs currently leave around 0930-1030)
-YOW-LAX/SFO/PHX
-YOW/YUL-PBI/MIA
-YOW/YYZ/YUL-SRQ
-YUL-YWG
-YOW/YYZ to future airline partner hubs - both E95s & DH4s (an AA codeshare for PD only makes too much sense)
-YOW/YUL/YYZ/YHZ-CUN/VRA/PUJ/NAS/pick your sun destination
-YHU-YHZ/YYZ/YWG/YEG/YYC/YVR/YQM/YFC/YTZ (the latter three on DH4s)

DH4s:
-Increasing YTZ-YQG/YSB/YTS/YQB back up to 2x-3x daily each like they were pre-pandemic & YUL/YOW-YTZ from 8x to 9x.
-YOW-YHM/YKF/YXU/MDW (2x daily each)
-YOW-YQB/YQG/YSJ/YSB/YAM/YTS (1x daily each)
-YHZ-YQX/YQY
-YUL-YHM/YKF/YXU (1x daily each to feed the TS evening bank)


PD did say they've identified 9 potential YHU routes at the time of the terminal announcement, so I've listed 9 above. Only other ones that make sense are YYG, YYT and maybe a DH4 or two to YQB - but their future Pascan partnership would be better for the latter. I suppose YHU-YOW could also make sense to feed transborder/international at YOW as a compliment to YYZ...and maybe price local seats at under $500 one-way to actually generate a bit of O&D, lol.

While there's currently 3 DH4 tails of slack, all the suggested DH4 flying above would require probably around 6 additional tails. PD have said they're looking at acquiring more Dash 8s.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

While there's currently 3 DH4 tails of slack, all the suggested DH4 flying above would require probably around 6 additional tails. PD have said they're looking at acquiring more Dash 8s.

There's about a dozen of them from Europe sitting on the ground at St Thomas (south of London) just waiting for Porter to come grab them.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

There's about a dozen of them from Europe sitting on the ground at St Thomas (south of London) just waiting for Porter to come grab them.

How does that happen?

[samuelx88]

I would also add YQB/YOW-KEF or even seasonally from smaller Maritime cities such as YQM, YYG, YYT, etc. as a codeshare with Icelandair with their Embraer. If it is well timed it could work.

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Perhaps way down the road. The YVR base (as per: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...883631684.html) is supposed to open in October with a staff of about 100. With a staff that size, initially I bet the YVR crew will be mostly flying YYZ/YOW/YUL-YVR with the odd non-YVR pairing thrown in there like YOW/YUL-YYZ as part of a RON.



Personally, I think there's still a whole pile of stuff PD can sensibly add before hitting a wall, be it year-round or seasonally over the next 5 years. Here's all the stuff I think seems reasonable (keep in mind not everything here would be daily & some could be as little as weekly winter seasonal on Saturdays):
-More frequency on some existing routes as they mature
-YYZ/YOW-YQR
-YOW-YXE
-YOW/YYZ-YLW
-YOW-YYJ
-YOW/YYZ-YDF
-YYZ-YQX/YYG/YQM/YFC/YSJ/YQT (1x daily early am departures would eat up a lot of the E95's underutilized slack as a lot of YYZ RONs currently leave around 0930-1030)
-YOW-LAX/SFO/PHX
-YOW/YUL-PBI/MIA
-YOW/YYZ/YUL-SRQ
-YUL-YWG
-YOW/YYZ to future airline partner hubs - both E95s & DH4s (an AA codeshare for PD only makes too much sense)
-YOW/YUL/YYZ/YHZ-CUN/VRA/PUJ/NAS/pick your sun destination
-YHU-YHZ/YYZ/YWG/YEG/YYC/YVR/YQM/YFC/YTZ (the latter three on DH4s)

DH4s:
-Increasing YTZ-YQG/YSB/YTS/YQB back up to 2x-3x daily each like they were pre-pandemic & YUL/YOW-YTZ from 8x to 9x.
-YOW-YHM/YKF/YXU/MDW (2x daily each)
-YOW-YQB/YQG/YSJ/YSB/YAM/YTS (1x daily each)
-YHZ-YQX/YQY
-YUL-YHM/YKF/YXU (1x daily each to feed the TS evening bank)


PD did say they've identified 9 potential YHU routes at the time of the terminal announcement, so I've listed 9 above. Only other ones that make sense are YYG, YYT and maybe a DH4 or two to YQB - but their future Pascan partnership would be better for the latter. I suppose YHU-YOW could also make sense to feed transborder/international at YOW as a compliment to YYZ...and maybe price local seats at under $500 one-way to actually generate a bit of O&D, lol.

While there's currently 3 DH4 tails of slack, all the suggested DH4 flying above would require probably around 6 additional tails. PD have said they're looking at acquiring more Dash 8s.

[MonctonRad]

I think YQM - YHU and YYZ are slam dunks, perhaps 1xdaily to YYZ and 2xdaily to YHU.

Existing frequencies to YTZ and YOW are fine. This would give Porter 6xdaily flights to YQM, which is about the same as Air Canada, and considerably more than WestJet (~3xdaily), and PAL (2xdaily).

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by samuelx88

I would also add YQB/YOW-KEF or even seasonally from smaller Maritime cities such as YQM, YYG, YYT, etc. as a codeshare with Icelandair with their Embraer. If it is well timed it could work.

PD will need to ETOPS (probably 90) a few E2s if they want to serve KEF. It certainly would make sense, especially from YOW if they and FI enter into a full-blown codeshare...but I don't think KEF is on PD's radar anytime soon.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

How does that happen?

Not sure what you are asking. How does what happen?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Not sure what you are asking. How does what happen?

I would assume he means how do Q400s from Europe come to be parked in London, ON? I wonder if these are from Chorus/Jazz's recently sold leasing operation?

In a similar vein, DeHavilland Canada announced at Farnborough they are eyeing 2025 as a possible launch date for an updated Q400 program. Let's hope so, it would be nice to still have at least one Canadian player in the commercial aviation field.

De Havilland eyes 2025 decision for possible Dash 8 production reboot
By Jon Hemmerdinger23 July 2024

De Havilland Canada could decide in 2025 whether to launch an updated variant of the Dash 8 turboprop, a move that would see the company shake up a market now largely controlled by competitor ATR.

Calgary-based De Havilland said during the Farnborough air show that it is considering the reboot, while also announcing that another reboot – the DHC-6 Twin Otter 300-G – is on track for certification this year.

The company last year began speaking to customers about an updated Dash 8, soliciting feedback about ideal aircraft size, seating, propulsion and efficiency. Executives say they could possibly bring an updated variant to market around the end of this decade....

https://www.flightglobal.com/airfram...159313.article

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I would assume he means how do Q400s from Europe come to be parked in London, ON? I wonder if these are from Chorus/Jazz's recently sold leasing operation?

Smart AMS has a facility at St Thomas airport that does maintenance. This all started being noticed about 3 or 4 years ago when some African Dash 8's (Passion Air) started showing up there, and last time I drove by there, I lost count but easily a dozen parked. Google Earth's last available imagery I think shows 12.