The Great Canadian Transit Thread - Page 522

PhilippeMtl · #**10421** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 2:31 PM**

• Video Link

bid winners:
Alstom Transport Canada Inc.
SNC-Lavalin O&M Inc.

Construction will start in April!

Panama station:

SkahHigh · #**10422** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 2:31 PM**

SNC-Lavalin is building the Réseau Express Métropolitain, Alstom is the rolling stock provider.

Updated map. The A13 station has been eliminated and the Bassin Peel project is now overground:

The logo:

Unknown stations:

Nun's Island bridge:

That's an old skyline pic btw

Horus · #**10423** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 2:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74

I heard on the news today, Bombardier is adding a production line to Kingston, to make streetcars in addition to the production line they have in North Bay.

Yeah, The Star had an article on it yesterday as well.

Link here

Quote:

Bombardier sets up new streetcar production line in Kingston, gives TTC new delivery schedule

Quebec-based company pledges again to ramp up production in order to meet deadline of delivering all 204 vehicles by the end of 2019.

By Ben Spurr
Transportation Reporter
Tues., Feb. 6, 2018

Bombardier is setting up a second production line in Kingston, Ont. to build TTC streetcars as the company steps up efforts to meet the final deadline for Toronto’s problem-plagued vehicle order.

According to a schedule the company has provided to the TTC, the addition of a second production line to complement the one at its Thunder Bay, Ont. plant will allow Bombardier to deliver 65 cars this year, and 77 in 2019.

That would enable it to meet the contract deadline of supplying all 204 of the cars by the end of next year.

“No revision, no excuses, this year we deliver for the people of Toronto,” said company spokesperson Eric Prud’Homme in an email.

The rate of production Bombardier is committing to under the new, heavily back-loaded schedule would far exceed anything the company has achieved on the $1-billion TTC order to date. The most cars it has supplied in a single year was in 2017 when it delivered about 30 of the vehicles.

The first new streetcar entered service in 2014, and the company says as of last week it had completed a total of 66. To meet its new schedule it will have to manufacture more cars this year than it did in the previous four, and then exceed this year’s total in 2019.

TTC spokesperson Brad Ross said in an email Tuesday the transit agency believes adding a second production line was “the right thing to do,” but he wouldn’t say whether the TTC has faith Bombardier will meet the 2019 target.

The company has “a lot of work to do to regain the confidence of the TTC and its customers,” he wrote. “We need these new streetcars more now than ever. We will wait and see if they hit their targets — it’s down to them to get this right.”

Last month, acting TTC chief executive officer Rick Leary broke with his predecessor Andy Byford and admitted the 2019 deadline was “in jeopardy.” He said the transit agency was working on a “Plan B” in the event the company didn’t deliver.

Ross said Tuesday the agency “continue(s) to review our options around things like supplementing buses on streetcar routes.”

Under terms agreed to in 2012, Bombardier was to have delivered a total of 148 vehicles by the end of 2017. But the company has grappled with manufacturing problems at its own factories as well as difficulties getting quality parts on time through its international supply chain.

After falling behind on the initial schedule, the Quebec-based firm has repeatedly given the TTC new delivery timelines and failed to meet them, earning the company a notorious reputation among Toronto transit users.

Bombardier has said a “turnaround program” it launched in 2017 has been largely successful, but it admitted to the TTC late last year it had to slow production because of “issues in our supply chain.”

According to Prud’Homme, Bombardier executives met with key suppliers recently to “demand corrective measures,” and the company expects its production rate to recover by the second quarter of this year. It has also secured additional suppliers for key parts.

The delays to the Bombardier order have left the TTC with a shortage of streetcars as it decommissions its older vehicles. According to the agency, three years ago it deployed 200 streetcars into service every day, but that number has now dropped to about 150, or fewer if cold weather knocks some old cars out of service.

Last month the TTC announced plans to replace streetcars on the 506 College and 505 Dundas routes with buses for what Leary has described as an “extended period of time.”

Bombardier wouldn’t disclose how much it’s investing to set up the Kingston production line, but said it will require the addition of at least 100 positions at the company, most of which will be new hires. Operations in Thunder Bay won’t be affected.

The first TTC car from the Kingston plant is expected to arrive in the third quarter of 2018.

Bombardier is already building vehicles for Metrolinx, Edmonton, and the Region of Waterloo in Kingston. Prud’Homme said it has the capacity to deliver on all its previous commitments as well as the TTC order.

p_xavier · #**10424** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 3:07 PM**

Wow, the REM stations are gorgeous!!! Cost is still reasonable compared to other transit projects in Canada.

FFX-ME · #**10425** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 3:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Wow, the REM stations are gorgeous!!! Cost is still reasonable compared to other transit projects in Canada.

Well that't because most of it is already there. You can't really compare.

p_xavier · #**10426** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 3:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Well that't because most of it is already there. You can't really compare.

Only a tunnel, a bridge, and some ROW, the rest is all rebuilt, even the tunnel it's being rebuilt to today's standards and to allow for VIA trains.

lrt's friend · #**10427** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 4:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Ottawa's Phase 2 LRT leaves three arguably significant flaws:
-No LRT to Kanata
-Trillium line has a capacity/frequency that is too low as a result of track limitations
-No connection cross river to Gatineau

All three of these problems could probably be fixed for $2B-$3B.. so yeah, I get the point; that's a lot less than what Toronto needs for a robust network.

Ottawa's service flaws are more significant than that. Both Montreal and Toronto have significant rapid transit service within the most urban parts of the city. Ottawa's Confederation Line and Trillium Line mostly are designed for suburban commuters. The network is not very effective in serving the more urban parts of the city. In other words, the network is more dependent on redeveloping around future stations rather than bringing service to existing residents.

You are also excluding the Baseline BRT and Carling LRT that are rather critical additions, whereas the Confederation Line follows existing rapid transit corridors. The Confederation Line provides really very little new service even after Phase 2 is completed, but addresses a critical need downtown and is entirely necessary for the future.

The original post painted a rosy picture for Ottawa that is not really true.

SteelTown · #**10428** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 4:29 PM**

New GO Station to be built in Stoney Creek, another $35 million for a station that will get maybe the most 6 GO train trips a day. Metrolinx really needs to do something to get more access to the CN rail line.

https://twitter.com/TedMcMeekin

Treplow · #**10429** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 4:51 PM**

Great news for Montreal!

Makes me wish an Ontario equivalent to the Caisse (Ontario Teachers Pension Plan?) would step up with a similar offer to fund the relief line in Toronto.

#**10430** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 4:54 PM**

Content removed

osmo · #**10431** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 5:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

It's not a boondoggle. It does make sense as a business case. What doesn't make sense is that it is receiving priority over other more pressing transit needs (RT reaching end of life notwithstanding)

Representatives from the rest of Canada already approved to finance a portion of the line. Obviously, they too saw a case for it. To go any further like a national vote is just being provincial and petty. "I want what he has"

There is a very little rationale to build this subway extension.

The original numbers that were used to council were cooked to boost ridership impressions.

No true to cost-estimates was done prior.

The landscape is the most challenging in the city with Highland Creek and tough Scarborough rock. The tunnels will be deep and expensive.

Scarborough has lagged behind in development, not because of the lack of a subway (there is already subway stations and multiple GO Stations in Scarborough), there is simply not the demand for it as Scarborough has continued to underperform its growth targets for development versus the rest of the "City Centres".

The Subway extension will increase many people's commutes as they will have to travel by bus, a more significant distance to Scarborough Town Centre to reach the subway.

The RT would have been finished being re-constructed this year if plans were not scuttled. They still have to shut it down and take it out of service so Scarborough residents will still be trapped on a bus for years.

FFX-ME · #**10432** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 5:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Ottawa's service flaws are more significant than that. Both Montreal and Toronto have significant rapid transit service within the most urban parts of the city. Ottawa's Confederation Line and Trillium Line mostly are designed for suburban commuters. The network is not very effective in serving the more urban parts of the city. In other words, the network is more dependent on redeveloping around future stations rather than bringing service to existing residents.

You are also excluding the Baseline BRT and Carling LRT that are rather critical additions, whereas the Confederation Line follows existing rapid transit corridors. The Confederation Line provides really very little new service even after Phase 2 is completed, but addresses a critical need downtown and is entirely necessary for the future.

The original post painted a rosy picture for Ottawa that is not really true.

The distances in Ottawa's core are not even comparable to those cities. Downtown Ottawa is minuscule and does not need rapid transit. There will be plenty of stations in the core for people to walk to. Sure the Glebe is not served but that may come later.

lrt's friend · #**10433** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 6:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

The distances in Ottawa's core are not even comparable to those cities. Downtown Ottawa is minuscule and does not need rapid transit. There will be plenty of stations in the core for people to walk to. Sure the Glebe is not served but that may come later.

Downtown Ottawa will be getting rapid transit at 4 stations but most of the denser older parts of the city will not get service. Instead, the trains follow old rail corridors to make a quick exit to the suburbs and people have not traditionally lived along those corridors.

ssiguy · #**10434** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 6:25 PM**

That's a great project for Montreal. Shame Toronto's RER can't be built in the same timeframe.

Acajack · #**10435** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 6:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Downtown Ottawa will be getting rapid transit at 4 stations but most of the denser older parts of the city will not get service. Instead, the trains follow old rail corridors to make a quick exit to the suburbs and people have not traditionally lived along those corridors.

I think that's a pretty valid point. All of central Ottawa beyond a few blocks in the northermost part of downtown won't really have service. This includes Centretown, the Glebe, Old Ottawa South.

Much of northern Lowertown and eastern Sandy Hill won't really have service either, and there is nothing planned in NE Ottawa cross the Rideau River in New Edinburgh, Vanier, Manor Park, Overbrook, etc.

Also most of the inner west end won't have service either as the line runs across the northern tier of the area, and the population to the south of there is some distance away.

All of these areas are dense urbanized zones - at least by Ottawa and Canadian standards.

You would think that at the very least there would be plans for a north-south line at least roughly parallel to Bank St., and another one going roughly NE along Rideau-Montreal Rd. But nope.

theman23 · #**10436** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 7:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

For the corn field subway in Vaughn, Toronto didn't pay for it. Toronto wanted a station up to York University and collaborated with York Reign whom both got corralled into this project by the Province and Feds as it was a political pet project for votes. The TTC gets payed to operate this line in Vaughn and I believe there is a subsidy attached to evrey York Region trip to cover operating loss shortfalls. This is the reason nobody complained because it was forced into us and we didn't have to pay for it. Scarborough is being forced into us and we have to pay, big difference.

That's not entirely correct. There was quite a bit of moaning about the project when it was first announced and the first few years of construction. I was quite active on urbantoronto and SSC in those days (which have a much larger Toronto contingent of posters), and it was not a popular project.

GreaterMontréal · #**10437** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 8:03 PM**

If you look closely, the REM rolling stock is different. Looks more like the Metro system in Sydney.

p_xavier · #**10438** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 8:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

If you look closely, the REM rolling stock is different. Looks more like the Metro system in Sydney.

It's surely Metropolis metro cars. The Caisse abandonned the light metro term and used exclusively metro in today's announcement.

GreaterMontréal · #**10439** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 8:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

It's surely Metropolis metro cars. The Caisse abandonned the light metro term and used exclusively metro in today's announcement.

Metropolis cars are completely different animals. It's no more a skytrain, and they could be perfect for the high capacity ''Pink Line''.

SkahHigh · #**10440** Posted **Feb 8, 2018, 8:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Metropolis cars are completely different animals. It's no more a skytrain, and they could be perfect for the high capacity ''Pink Line''.

The Sydney Metro you just compared the REM to, consists of Alstom Metropolis trains:

http://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/pics/tn_au-sydney-NWRL_train_impression.jpg