The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

If it is funded by the federal government, the rest of the country must say no to that boondoggle. I would love to see the business case for the Scarborough extension.

It's not a boondoggle. It does make sense as a business case. What doesn't make sense is that it is receiving priority over other more pressing transit needs (RT reaching end of life notwithstanding)

Representatives from the rest of Canada already approved to finance a portion of the line. Obviously, they too saw a case for it. To go any further like a national vote is just being provincial and petty. "I want what he has"

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I feel like we've been through this before, but can someone explain why Toronto never has to dish out municipal tax dollars for transit projects? Are we (Ottawa) the only suckers who pay 1/3+?

Such an idea is heresy in Toronto and to answer your question, no Ottawa is not the only city to cough up it's own money for RT as KW did it with it's ION LRT and London will with it's 20km BRT.

Torontonians are very easily traumatized and have this idea that they are God's gift to the nation and hence must be treated as such. The province and feds of course feed right into this by not demanding Torontonians pay their fair share or any share for that matter. This is why ALL current RT transits in the GTHA are being paid for 100% by Queen's Park with some help from Ottawa while the 7 million proletariats from the rest of the province are saddled with raising some of their own funds. This not only includes the $5 billion Eglinton & Finch LRTs but also the massive GO/RER system which is the largest transit project on the continent.

The good news for the other 7 million Ontarians it that they have the honour and privilege of being able to subsidize Toronto projects.

[niwell]

If we want to go down that route, Toronto's original subway network before the construction of the Sheppard line was funded largely (or in some instances almost entirely) by the city itself. About half the funding for the latest line 1 expansion was sourced from municipal funds, being split between the City of Toronto and York Region.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Torontonians are very easily traumatized and have this idea that they are God's gift to the nation and hence must be treated as such. The province and feds of course feed right into this by not demanding Torontonians pay their fair share or any share for that matter. .

Wow, really? Sounding kind of ignorant to the facts. The GTA represents 20% of Canada's GDP. We are a tax cash cow for Canada. Our GDP is usually larger then the entire province of Alberta that represents 16% of Canada's GDP. For every single tax dollar that Toronto generates only $0.04 ever makes it's way back into the city, the other $0.96 is divided up between Ottawa and Queens Park for the rest of Ontario and Canada. There is a reason why Toronto is always struggling to keep up with things like transit, the rest of the country would scream bloody murder if Toronto was able to get back more of the revenues it produces.

[SkahHigh]

The winning bidders for the REM will be announced tomorrow morning.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

The winning bidders for the REM will be announced tomorrow morning.

Sabia, Couillard, Garneau, Plante. finally,

[Innsertnamehere]

Lol it depends entirely on the project. Toronto is I believe over 30% contribution on the Scarborough subway right now. Spadina was over 30%. SmartTrack is 30% Eglinton East is 100% municipal. Eglinton and Finch are the only 100% non municipal, but Toronto is far from the only one to get 100% either. Hamilton, Hurontaroo, and York Region's BRTs are all 100% provincial funding.

I would argue that Toronto needs a whole lot more transit spending in general now too. After phase 2 Ottawa will have a very robust LRT network with few major gaps - while you could drop another $20 billion on the GTA and it would still be filled with transit accessibility gaps.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

The winning bidders for the REM will be announced tomorrow morning.

Finally! Biggest metro project ever in Canada to be filed under Under Construction.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Such an idea is heresy in Toronto and to answer your question, no Ottawa is not the only city to cough up it's own money for RT as KW did it with it's ION LRT and London will with it's 20km BRT.

Torontonians are very easily traumatized and have this idea that they are God's gift to the nation and hence must be treated as such. The province and feds of course feed right into this by not demanding Torontonians pay their fair share or any share for that matter. This is why ALL current RT transits in the GTHA are being paid for 100% by Queen's Park with some help from Ottawa while the 7 million proletariats from the rest of the province are saddled with raising some of their own funds. This not only includes the $5 billion Eglinton & Finch LRTs but also the massive GO/RER system which is the largest transit project on the continent.

The good news for the other 7 million Ontarians it that they have the honour and privilege of being able to subsidize Toronto projects.

Your playing the world's smallest violin here. Small minded built on totally false perceptions. The city is contributing more dollars than the Feds. ($1 billion compared to $700 million)

Don't ever change though. You're one damn amusing poster.

[mistercorporate]

ssiguy is now a certified dum#@$$.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Finally! Biggest metro project ever in Canada to be filed under Under Construction.

Exciting annoucement!

[caltrane74]

I heard on the news today, Bombardier is adding a production line to Kingston, to make streetcars in addition to the production line they have in North Bay.

[CoffeeBreak]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Why aren't they replacing the Scarborough RT with an elevated extension of the Bloor-Danforth using the same right of way? Why does it have to be an underground subway?

Because that's what would have made the most sense!

Sorry for the rolling eyes sarcasm, but I'm just so sick of listening to all the back and forth about this issue... and I've always thought that the existing right of way should be used to extend the subway line from Kennedy Station to STC (Scarborough Town Centre). Why force Scarberians to change trains when an above ground train could be extended to STC from Kennedy on an already existing right-of-way (with slight modifications to allow for a longer train). The subway already runs above ground in other parts of the city, so not sure why there was wholescale resistance to this idea.

As for the downtown crowd that whines and opines about the utter uselessness of having a subway connection to STC (even if it is above ground), I'm curious why I never hear this same crowd harping about the complete waste it was to have a similar underground line run to a place that is even further out on the fringes of the suburban Toronto metro area... that being Vaughn City Centre. But that's a whole other story!

[goodthings]

Originally Posted by thomax

The Niagara Region has been developing secondary plans for the land around it's future GO stations. The plans were released a couple months ago, but I don't think they were posted here yet, so here they are...


source

Project Website: niagararegion.ca/projects/go-hub-transit-stations/transit-hubs


Grimsby | Grimsby GO Station Secondary Plan (PDF)

source


Beamsville | Beamsville GO Station Secondary Plan (PDF)

source

Grimsby Station looks pretty interesting. It's pretty dense and looks like a concrete jungle at Casablanca. Are they adding another Grimsby within that area (so, full build out of Grimsby is 50,000)? Having 20-storey towers, considering neighbouring Stoney Creek does not build that tall, is a welcome support for the train station.

I'm quite sure 20-ish storeys are the tallest in both Oakville and Burlington, and those cities are like 8 times the size of Grimsby. So, Grimsby is punching way above its weight.

As for Beamsville, I thought those are all condos, which I thought was a radical change considering the existing area. But with the real estate frenzy going on, might as well convert all buildings to mixed-use.

Also, the number of stations is pretty low for this corridor. I envision additional stations at Fruitland, Winona, Vineland, and Taylor Rd (NOTL).

[ssiguy]

QP is paying for 100% of the Eglinton & Finch LRTs and Miss & Hamilton LRT are also being paid for 100% by QP unlike their provincial counterparts outside the GTAH. RER and GO is also a provincial expansion. What am I missing?

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by goodthings

Grimsby Station looks pretty interesting. It's pretty dense and looks like a concrete jungle at Casablanca. Are they adding another Grimsby within that area (so, full build out of Grimsby is 50,000)? Having 20-storey towers, considering neighbouring Stoney Creek does not build that tall, is a welcome support for the train station.

I'm quite sure 20-ish storeys are the tallest in both Oakville and Burlington, and those cities are like 8 times the size of Grimsby. So, Grimsby is punching way above its weight.

As for Beamsville, I thought those are all condos, which I thought was a radical change considering the existing area. But with the real estate frenzy going on, might as well convert all buildings to mixed-use.

Also, the number of stations is pretty low for this corridor. I envision additional stations at Fruitland, Winona, Vineland, and Taylor Rd (NOTL).

It will be interesting, how it turns out -- those are just conceptual plans, and "full build" ones at that. Grimsby around that interchange is already developing into a residential area of townhouses and low to mid-rises, with commercial mixed in. Whether the idea of 15-20 storeys is fulfilled or not, we'll see.

There isn't the population and projected ridership to support more stations, and there may not be for a long time. Beamsville won't happen right away in the current proposal. I could see maybe adding a station between Centennial and Grimsby at some point, but not more than that in that stretch. Between Niagara Falls and St. Catharines is largely rural and protected Greenbelt or Escarpment Plan land... would there be enough demand for it to make sense? Even with a connecting bus to Niagara-on-the-Lake? Maybe on the west side of the canal in north Thorold would be better if the numbers support it? Niagara-bound trains will have to stop often for ship traffic anyway. Regardless, that's all in what-if territory: demand in the corridor will take time to grow and mature.

One advantage to having larger distances between the stations is faster trips as the trains can get up to higher speed. Those trips will be very long as it is for someone travelling all the way to/from Toronto.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by CoffeeBreak

Because that's what would have made the most sense!

Sorry for the rolling eyes sarcasm, but I'm just so sick of listening to all the back and forth about this issue... and I've always thought that the existing right of way should be used to extend the subway line from Kennedy Station to STC (Scarborough Town Centre). Why force Scarberians to change trains when an above ground train could be extended to STC from Kennedy on an already existing right-of-way (with slight modifications to allow for a longer train). The subway already runs above ground in other parts of the city, so not sure why there was wholescale resistance to this idea.

As for the downtown crowd that whines and opines about the utter uselessness of having a subway connection to STC (even if it is above ground), I'm curious why I never hear this same crowd harping about the complete waste it was to have a similar underground line run to a place that is even further out on the fringes of the suburban Toronto metro area... that being Vaughn City Centre. But that's a whole other story!

The corridor isn't wide enough. Subways are much bigger than the rt. Taking out the rt also frees up space for smart track.

That is why elevated was suggested. Of course, the poster didn't spend a single second to realize the costly clusterfuck needed to prep the corridor for an elevated metro. Eglinton, Lawrence and Ellesmere would each have to closed for a year to demolish the grossly over built overpasses and replace them with underpasses

Do you by chance live in a bubble to not have heard any harping over the Vaughan extension?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Lol it depends entirely on the project. Toronto is I believe over 30% contribution on the Scarborough subway right now. Spadina was over 30%. SmartTrack is 30% Eglinton East is 100% municipal. Eglinton and Finch are the only 100% non municipal, but Toronto is far from the only one to get 100% either. Hamilton, Hurontaroo, and York Region's BRTs are all 100% provincial funding.

I would argue that Toronto needs a whole lot more transit spending in general now too. After phase 2 Ottawa will have a very robust LRT network with few major gaps - while you could drop another $20 billion on the GTA and it would still be filled with transit accessibility gaps.

Ottawa's Phase 2 LRT leaves three arguably significant flaws:
-No LRT to Kanata
-Trillium line has a capacity/frequency that is too low as a result of track limitations
-No connection cross river to Gatineau

All three of these problems could probably be fixed for $2B-$3B.. so yeah, I get the point; that's a lot less than what Toronto needs for a robust network.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by CoffeeBreak

Because that's what would have made the most sense!

Sorry for the rolling eyes sarcasm, but I'm just so sick of listening to all the back and forth about this issue... and I've always thought that the existing right of way should be used to extend the subway line from Kennedy Station to STC (Scarborough Town Centre). Why force Scarberians to change trains when an above ground train could be extended to STC from Kennedy on an already existing right-of-way (with slight modifications to allow for a longer train). The subway already runs above ground in other parts of the city, so not sure why there was wholescale resistance to this idea.

As for the downtown crowd that whines and opines about the utter uselessness of having a subway connection to STC (even if it is above ground), I'm curious why I never hear this same crowd harping about the complete waste it was to have a similar underground line run to a place that is even further out on the fringes of the suburban Toronto metro area... that being Vaughn City Centre. But that's a whole other story!

For the corn field subway in Vaughn, Toronto didn't pay for it. Toronto wanted a station up to York University and collaborated with York Reign whom both got corralled into this project by the Province and Feds as it was a political pet project for votes. The TTC gets payed to operate this line in Vaughn and I believe there is a subsidy attached to evrey York Region trip to cover operating loss shortfalls. This is the reason nobody complained because it was forced into us and we didn't have to pay for it. Scarborough is being forced into us and we have to pay, big difference.

[SteelTown]

GO train service update coming from site of new Stoney Creek station Thursday
An unspecified announcement will be made from the site of the planned new Stoney Creek GO station.

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/81234...te-of-new-stoney-creek-station-thursday/

Liberal politicians from Hamilton and Niagara say they will announce "significant transit news" Thursday from the site of a planned $35-million east city GO station.

Hamilton MPP Ted McMeekin and St. Catharines MPP Jim Bradley are slated to make an unspecified announcement from 397 Centennial Parkway N. Provincial transit agency Metrolinx bought that property and a neighbouring parcel two years ago for the proposed station.

That station started early stage construction last year and is supposed to be in service by 2019. It is not clear if the announcement will address long-standing questions about when Hamilton will see improved train frequency.


Right now, only two trains leave Hamilton's new $45-million West Harbour GO station each morning. That station is on the same CN rail line that will serve Stoney Creek and eventually stations in Grimsby, St. Catharines and Niagara Falls.

Metrolinx has previously estimated it will cost about $150-million to build the station and make improvements or changes to the CN-owned rail corridor that will allow GO commuter trains to connect between Toronto and the Stoney Creek station.

The new station is expected to have around 390 parking spaces, a kiss-and-ride and a pedestrian tunnel.

Local riders and politicians have expressed growing frustration at the wait for more frequent service on the corridor. Metrolinx has also said hourly train service will come first to the Hunter Street station, not along the CN line required to feed Niagara service expansion.