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  #1021  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2008, 5:47 PM
Chicago3rd Chicago3rd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
Completely agree with that.



Chicago 3rd, I'm not sure what you are getting at. Why would anyone even think of changing the bridge towers?
As for the gaps, those are to stay. The only thing that would ever fill that is some sort of caulking. A good architect trying to convey a real facade made of stone would have each unit "wrap around" the corner since stone cladding (even if it's a thin veneer) has some sort of thickness to it. The precast manufacturer figured they could minimize the appearance of joints by mitering the edges at the corners. Well....wrong...the exposure is clear as day, and it looks like crap IMO.
My photo is in reference to folks who seem to think this buildings style came out of no where.
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  #1022  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2008, 9:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
...The precast manufacturer figured they could minimize the appearance of joints by mitering the edges at the corners.
Wrong...that kind of decision is not left up to the precaster. They will provide the detail that the Architect asks for. We have shown previously in this thread that in other areas of this building they did use a returned detail of which you speak.
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  #1023  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2008, 9:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago3rd View Post
My photo is in reference to folks who seem to think this buildings style came out of no where.

Appropriateness of style and caliber of the construction specs are two separate issues.

Last edited by wrab; Sep 8, 2008 at 9:54 PM.
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  #1024  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2008, 9:46 PM
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A little tree action going on so there is nothing to see here, move right along

Last edited by Brian.; Sep 8, 2008 at 10:04 PM.
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  #1025  
Old Posted Sep 8, 2008, 9:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoPrecaster View Post
He made a claim that the precaster somehow had a hand in the design of the joint detail which is a false statement that needed to be corrected.


I didn't say a thing about the style.

No - my response is to the earlier post, not to yours. We were posting at the same time.

---

It is still a nice little bridge house, regardless of what LaGrange does.
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  #1026  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2008, 12:04 PM
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Wow that's bad. I am stunned.
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  #1027  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2008, 8:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photolitherland View Post
A side note, do the architects ever look at this site and see what people are saying about their towers while they are being built?
You might be surprised by some of the people that visit here. The SSP forum frequently appears near the top of Google’s result page when searching on a building’s name. This site isn't too hard to find.
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  #1028  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2008, 8:35 AM
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoPrecaster View Post
Wrong...that kind of decision is not left up to the precaster. They will provide the detail that the Architect asks for. We have shown previously in this thread that in other areas of this building they did use a returned detail of which you speak.
The architect's wanted that? I don't believe that entirely....I feel they were faced with this as the best option, or their only option. I believe the typical product with these block reveals typically employ this type of corner. (As I've seen it on several buildings with similar facades) Otherwise you'd have a noticeable seam running parallel to the corner. Show me some sections where joints follow the jagged reveal of staggered block facade. I've looked through my catalogs and saw nothing.

I wasn't good with my words in my post..after reading what I wrote, it seems off, so you are correct that it's technically architects choice...but only by what they can be offered without substantially increasing costs. However, you do realize there are limitations when it comes to modular construction. There's no doubt that having an exposed seam near the corner would be worse than what we see above. That's what I meant by there are limitations in design by what can be manufactured.

Last edited by Rizzo; Sep 13, 2008 at 8:49 AM.
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  #1029  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2008, 5:52 PM
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  #1030  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2008, 5:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
The architect's wanted that? I don't believe that entirely....I feel they were faced with this as the best option, or their only option. I believe the typical product with these block reveals typically employ this type of corner. (As I've seen it on several buildings with similar facades) Otherwise you'd have a noticeable seam running parallel to the corner. Show me some sections where joints follow the jagged reveal of staggered block facade. I've looked through my catalogs and saw nothing.
The link below is what I was refering to when I mentioned that this building has areas that have the joint moved off the corner.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=779
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  #1031  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2008, 9:03 PM
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here is a very quick photoshop job i did to show how close to finishing this project is.... the picture is from the page one post by steely dan

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  #1032  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2008, 1:08 AM
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getting pretty close
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  #1033  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2008, 6:11 PM
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  #1034  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2008, 7:48 PM
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  #1035  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2008, 8:23 PM
shaberko shaberko is offline
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I think you can safely say that at this point it looks horrible.

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Originally Posted by jstush04 View Post
reserving judgment reserving judgment reserving judgment reserving judgment reserving judgment reserving judgment reserving judgment reserving judgment reserving judgment reserving judgment reserving judgment reserving judgment reserving judgment reserving judgment reserving judgment etc
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  #1036  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2008, 9:55 PM
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This building still has that clock on the bottom, right?

Yeah, I'm not too impressed with how it has turned out so far (and I actually kinda liked the building on paper a few years ago).

So far the only things I'm looking forward to are the Charlie Trotter's restaurant and Marc Jacobs store.
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  #1037  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2008, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by AdrianXSands View Post
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! bro... seriously? i very much doubt that.
On the contrary, you would be surprised, I think, how many of the people that actually post, as opposed to just browsing, this forum are architects. Yet you notice that there is almost unanimous derision of this building on this forum. Everyone knows its crap, but through a variety of factors it still gets built.

One reason is that architecture is a melding of hundreds of people on one project, and for a highrise, a design team of at least 10 people. When you have that many people trying to coordinate work, and do it for the least possible price, you end up with the lowest common denominator design. If it weren't for developers with no sense of style, then we'd just have a lot of crappy proto-modernism...but as it is, some architects listen to developers, who think people are more likely to buy faux-old stuff, so we get a little of this too. Mostly it's an artifact of architects listening too much to their clients, for fear of losing work...and of an outdated system of designing buildings that does not scale well to this age of really complex HVAC, mechanical, structural, and other systems. While the architecture of the 20s has its own problems, the system worked much better then when the architect really could lead the design process, because there weren't so many systems to be considered.

Another reason is materials and cost. I have covered this at length before, but ultimately the cheap materials of our time are concrete and (comparatively) glass, and the labor exists to do these trades well. Note how we don't complain about our society's inability to handle the intricacies of a curtain wall...because we're actually pretty good at it. However, our society has lost, as a common skill, stone detailing, and so doing that well costs a lot of money in these times, when the skill can even be found. Therefore, architects and developers, under cost constraints, try to replicate what they are told to make, as best they can, with the materials they can afford in this day and age. That ends up being concrete, because they can't afford stone, and it ends up being crappily detailed, because it would cost too much to do it right. Obviously, you don't have to fake it at all - you could use the materials of our day, the ones our society is good at - but...

...Lucien Lagrange has been doing this for a long time. He's old, rich, and arrogant, and supposedly not a very good designer to start with (like artists, you don't have to be a good designer to become a well-known architect). In addition, he's done a lot of buildings like this, knows people will take it, and knows his firm can make money doing it. Changing his style would mean breaking out of old habits for an old man, so it isn't likely to happen. Some would argue, in addition, that he gives developers exactly what they want - so why change, if it means risking his firm's ability to satisfy its clients, and ultimately the livelihood of some of his employees...especially in an economy where a lot of architectural work is quickly drying up, and we're likely to see a lot of taxi driver architects very soon.

--

Another reason you see a lot of people on this forum, that are architects, complaining about things, yet nothing is done, is because many people that use a forum like this are pretty young, and have not yet risen to the point in firms where they hold that level of influence. Many principals in architecture firms don't reach that level until their 40s, 50s, maybe even 60s.
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  #1038  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2008, 1:37 AM
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It's starting to look better, but the joints on the corners still look terrible. Frankly, it's not going to look its best until the joints gets properly caulked and sealed, right?
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  #1039  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2008, 4:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyguy View Post
So far the only things I'm looking forward to are the Charlie Trotter's restaurant and Marc Jacobs store.
Whoa, where have I been? I had no idea they were putting a Marc Jacobs store here. What's happening to the one in Bucktown? Also, I'm really surprised that such a cutting edge designer would locate in such a regressive building...

I really do hate Lucien Lagrange.
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  #1040  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2008, 4:43 AM
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^The store in Bucktown is a Marc by Marc Jacobs store that is a more "urban" (read: cheaper) line of his, and as far as I know it has been doing quite well and is not going anywhere anytime soon. If a Marc Jacobs were to locate here, then I would assume it would carry Marc Jacobs eponymous top-tier line.
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