Highways in Canada

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

All of the major cities in ON and QC are connected by a freeway. I don't think the same can be said for NS and NB.

Saint John (NB Route 1), Fredericton, and Moncton (NB Route 2) are connected by freeways on the provincial highway network. Those are the major cities in New Brunswick. After those, it's cities/towns of ~20-35k (Bathurst, Miramichi, and Campbellton) that are unconnected.

In context, the demand for rural regions of that size to have freeway connections to larger centres is an outlier. Even the United States doesn't generally extend its freeway networks to such places, unless it is part of a path between two major points.

I'm curious about what constitutes 'major' in an Ontario/Quebec context, because both Thunder Bay (~120k) and Sudbury (~170k) still remain unconnected, albeit with the latter slowly getting there.

Gatineau is technically unconnected to the rest of Quebec if the standard is intra-provincial freeway.

[Dengler Avenue]

I mean, if CAQ’s serious about twinning A50, Gatineau’s also getting there just like Sudbury.
Saguenay to Quebec City is like North Bay to Toronto.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Saint John (NB Route 1), Fredericton, and Moncton (NB Route 2) are connected by freeways on the provincial highway network. Those are the major cities in New Brunswick. After those, it's cities/towns of ~20-35k (Bathurst, Miramichi, and Campbellton) that are unconnected.
.

None of these are over 20k, actually.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It's more than just Highways 1 & 2 which are divided in NB.

The entire length of NB-95 is divided to the US border (connecting to I-95). A decent chunk of Highways 11 & 15 are divided near Moncton (11 as far north as nearly Bouctouche). Parts of Highway 7 from SJ to Freddy are also divided.

All totaled, there are probably at least 850 km of totally grade separated dual carriageway in the province. Not bad for a province with less than 850k people.

How many provinces in the country can say you can drive their entire length on a divided highway? It doesn't even matter if you're talking about a pan Canadian route, or connecting traffic to the US! The statement is true in either event. In fact, we have two divided highways leading to the US (NB-1 & NB-95).

NB-1 is also, I believe, the only case where there is a freeway on the Canadian side of the border but not the American. Lots of cases where a US freeway ends at the Canadian border without a connection, but only one such case for the other way around..

Generally the road network in NB / NS is the best in Canada and as a whole is vastly overbuilt for the demands placed on it. It's hilariously easy and efficient to drive around the Maritimes compared to Ontario or the rest of the country.

[esquire]

I spent some time driving around NB/NS last summer and I was very impressed with the roads. The highway from Moncton to Saint John was a highlight in that regard, it felt indistinguishable from an Interstate highway which is a rare thing to say about a Canadian highway outside ON/QC. The scenery was nice too.

PE was not on the same level which is not surprising given the smaller population. Lots of local country roads that were fun in the summer but would have been treacherous in the winter. Really only the TCH from the bridge to Charlottetown felt like an efficient, well designed major highway.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by harls

Couple that with the fact that they use odd numbers for their highways east to west, and even north to south, just like the USA, yes.. it is ripped off.

All of the features were "ripped off", including the numbering convention for spurs which you didn't mention but can add to your list. For example in my hometown (Sherbrooke), served by A-10, you have the local freeway branches A-410 and A-610.

[Nashe]

Driving in PEI and very-S ON (off the highways) feels similar for me, though the former has a few more hills.

Zig-zag-zig-zag-zig-zag-zig-zag-zig...

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Absolutely it can, other than maybe Sydney.. but Ontario and Quebec have towns around the same size off the freeway network as well.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It's more than just Highways 1 & 2 which are divided in NB.

The entire length of NB-95 is divided to the US border (connecting to I-95). A decent chunk of Highways 11 & 15 are divided near Moncton (11 as far north as nearly Bouctouche). Parts of Highway 7 from SJ to Freddy are also divided.

All totaled, there are probably at least 850 km of totally grade separated dual carriageway in the province. Not bad for a province with less than 850k people.

How many provinces in the country can say you can drive their entire length on a divided highway? It doesn't even matter if you're talking about a pan Canadian route, or connecting traffic to the US! The statement is true in either event. In fact, we have two divided highways leading to the US (NB-1 & NB-95).

Originally Posted by thewave46

Saint John (NB Route 1), Fredericton, and Moncton (NB Route 2) are connected by freeways on the provincial highway network. Those are the major cities in New Brunswick. After those, it's cities/towns of ~20-35k (Bathurst, Miramichi, and Campbellton) that are unconnected.

In context, the demand for rural regions of that size to have freeway connections to larger centres is an outlier. Even the United States doesn't generally extend its freeway networks to such places, unless it is part of a path between two major points.

I'm curious about what constitutes 'major' in an Ontario/Quebec context, because both Thunder Bay (~120k) and Sudbury (~170k) still remain unconnected, albeit with the latter slowly getting there.

Gatineau is technically unconnected to the rest of Quebec if the standard is intra-provincial freeway.

I hit a nerve.

A major city is where people from the area go for services.They tend to have bigger known stores, a major hospital, etc. Not all provinces have the same number of major cities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_Ontario#

If we look at the largest cities of ON, The top 14 cities are connected with a 400 series highway. In fact, of the top 25, only 2;Sudbury and Thunder Bay are not connected with a 400 series highway. Even more, the top 50, the only extra one is SSM, as 11 is mostly built to 400 series standards (Don't get me going on the RIRO section). When it comes to the MB connection, it is a another sore spot, but at around 1500km or more, I will have to accept it will not be done in our lifetimes.


Lets look at QC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_in_Quebec

Super 2 do not count. I am trying to figure out if QC 175 is divided the whole way. If it isn't, then only 2 cities of the major cities are not connected of the top 20. One strike against it is that it does not have a short connection to NB finished.


NB
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_New_Brunswick

They list 8 cities. Not all are connected. They have signed highways that show they are major highways to them, and it can be assumed they will be twinned. 3 of their 8 cities are not connected.


NS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_Nova_Scotia

The second largest municipality is not connected by a freeway. Of the top 10, Half only have a Super 2.

So, no, NS and NB, you do not have a good network. QC, you are not too bad, but needs work. And ON, please, can you twin one of the Trans Canada highways in Northern ON?

[Dengler Avenue]

I am trying to figure out if QC 175 is divided the whole way.

Route 175 is divided the whole way between Quebec and Saguenay by 2012, the same time that ON-11 is divided the whole way between Toronto and North Bay.

Sérieusement, vas visiter le beau pays du Saguenay - Lac Saint Zzzean.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Route 175 is divided the whole way between Quebec and Saguenay by 2012, the same time that ON-11 is divided the whole way between Toronto and North Bay.

Sérieusement, vas visiter le beau pays du Saguenay - Lac Saint Zzzean.

So, Quebec is doing well.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

NB
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_New_Brunswick

They list 8 cities. Not all are connected. They have signed highways that show they are major highways to them, and it can be assumed they will be twinned. 3 of their 8 cities are not connected.

NB-11 is being twinned or is now twinned to a point about 100 km south of Miramichi. I don't believe there are any firm plans to twin the next 100 km at this point.

As for Bathurst and Campbellton, they won't be connected by fully divided highways any time soon.

Edmundston is already on the fully divided TCH NB-2.

[Nashe]

Even by NB standards, Miramichi, Campbellton, Edmunston, Bathurst aren't considered "real" cities. People there routinely have to travel to the "big 3" (heh) for services. I say that as a person living in Moncton but who in fact grew up much closer to those other "cities". It's a rather "inside" joke. Kids learn NB has "8 cities" in school but smirk and roll their eyes.

[q12]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, no, NS and NB, you do not have a good network.

Keep moving the goal post but you can't ignore the fact that there is probably 1300km -1400km of freeway network in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia combined. And probably several 100 km more of super 2 freeways (with full interchanges) combined in both provinces allowing free flowing traffic without intersections.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Acajack

NB-11 is being twinned or is now twinned to a point about 100 km south of Miramichi. I don't believe there are any firm plans to twin the next 100 km at this point.

As for Bathurst and Campbellton, they won't be connected by fully divided highways any time soon.

Edmundston is already on the fully divided TCH NB-2.

Which is what I was getting at. They really should progress with twinning. There should be ongoing twinning somewhere in the province.

Originally Posted by Nashe

Even by NB standards, Miramichi, Campbellton, Edmunston, Bathurst aren't considered "real" cities. People there routinely have to travel to the "big 3" (heh) for services. I say that as a person living in Moncton but who in fact grew up much closer to those other "cities". It's a rather "inside" joke. Kids learn NB has "8 cities" in school but smirk and roll their eyes.

That is the problem of how things are labeled in the country. It is also how things are laid out.For instance, Vancouver is not the 3rd largest city In Canada. But it is the 3rd largest metro.

Originally Posted by q12

Keep moving the goal post but you can't ignore the fact that there is probably 1300km -1400km of freeway network in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia combined. And probably several 100 km more of super 2 freeways (with full interchanges) combined in both provinces allowing free flowing traffic without intersections.

Super 2s are not freeways.
Super 2s are not freeways

Especially when parts of them have cross roads. Yes, in NS, there are cross roads that do not have to only turn right.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.2299745,-...6thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu
That is not a freeway.

[q12]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Which is what I was getting at. They really should progress with twinning. There should be ongoing twinning somewhere in the province.



That is the problem of how things are labeled in the country. It is also how things are laid out.For instance, Vancouver is not the 3rd largest city In Canada. But it is the 3rd largest metro.



Super 2s are not freeways.
Super 2s are not freeways

Especially when parts of them have cross roads. Yes, in NS, there are cross roads that do not have to only turn right.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.2299745,-...6thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu
That is not a freeway.

Nobody said that intersection was.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Which is what I was getting at. They really should progress with twinning. There should be ongoing twinning somewhere in the province.



That is the problem of how things are labeled in the country. It is also how things are laid out.For instance, Vancouver is not the 3rd largest city In Canada. But it is the 3rd largest metro.



Super 2s are not freeways.
Super 2s are not freeways

Especially when parts of them have cross roads. Yes, in NS, there are cross roads that do not have to only turn right.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.2299745,-...6thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu
That is not a freeway.

TCH Renfrew Bypass, Pembroke - Petawawa Bypass, North Bay Bypass, Sudbury Bypass, Thunder Bay Bypass, Shabaqua Extension, and Kenora Bypass are technically classified as (staged) freeways under MTO definition.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by q12

Nobody said that intersection was.

The problem is:
"A 100-series highway is a designation applied to a highway that can be a controlled-access expressway, Super-2, or fully divided freeway. The designation can also be applied in some cases to sections of uncontrolled access roads which are deemed strategically important and which will be upgraded in the future to controlled-access."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100-series_highways_(Nova_Scotia)

So, it really confuses drivers who are not from there.
It would be like ON labeling 69 as 400 as it would fit the same idea. Or all of17 to 417 for the same reason.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

TCH Renfrew Bypass, Pembroke - Petawawa Bypass, North Bay Bypass, Sudbury Bypass, Thunder Bay Bypass, Shabaqua Extension, and Kenora Bypass are technically classified as (staged) freeways under MTO definition.

Which is why I ignored them....

[swimmer_spe]

Someone on here or another forum posted a map of all 4 laned highways in Canada. Anyone have the link?

[Innsertnamehere]

lol - so NB has a bad highway network because Cambellton, a town of 6,800 people far in an isolated location, doesn't have a freeway network connection?? How many cars a day do you think even want to drive to a town that size? It's a small town, not a city.

Do you want to know how many "cities" of 6,800 people are in Ontario without a freeway connection? Probably 30+.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

lol - so NB has a bad highway network because Cambellton, a town of 6,800 people far in an isolated location, doesn't have a freeway network connection?? How many cars a day do you think even want to drive to a town that size? It's a small town, not a city.

Do you want to know how many "cities" of 6,800 people are in Ontario without a freeway connection? Probably 30+.

Imagine all of ON's King's Highways were all 400 series highways. A visitor would be confused about it. So, change the markings of NB 11 to not confuse visitors what it is. Or, change what NB considers a city.