Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Denmark ranks its diasporas by average performance across a host of metrics now, culminating in net cost/benefit to the state. Sweden is launching a similar project. Somalia and Afghanistan do the worst.

If the French authorities tried a similar scheme, they would be called "fascist" or even "Nazi" by most of our medias and "intellectuals", who are all very left-wing.

Our new minister of the Interior is already called "far-right" simply because he wants to be a tiny bit harsher (or a tiny bit less soft rather) on immigration, such as extending administrative retention of dangerous illegal immigrants (i.e. those who committed serious crimes) to 180 days (under today's law, they can be set free after just 30 days even if they raped or killed someone). I'm talking of administrative retention before deportation here, not prison terms for their crimes (which they have completed already).

Tonight in one of the largest French newspapers I was reading this headline "[name of the Interior minister] is far outside the Republican arc" ("Republican" in France means "democratic"). The man who says that is the leader of the LFI far-left party in the National Assembly. In any other country, who would care what the leader of a far-left party has to say, let alone who the leader of a far-left party considers a "democrat" or not (I mean , from the political camp that gave us the killing fields of Cambodia, the tens of millions of deaths of Maoism, the gulag and Stalinist purges), but in France the guy is taken very very seriously, and his opinion that our Interior minister is "far outside the Republic arc" is deemed important enough to be the main headline of a national newspaper.

Our Interior minister would be considered a very mainstream CSU politician in Bavaria (perhaps even slightly left-of-center CSU due to his "humanist" stance on economic issues).

So your Scandinavian scheme implemented here...

[New Brisavoine]

Interesting stat seen on twitter.

TFR (number of children per woman) in 2023:
(for comparison: - France: 1.68 / - US: 1.62)
- Québec outside of Montréal and Québec City: 1.55
- Québec City: 1.35
- Montréal: 1.29
CANADA: 1.26
- Ottawa: 1.22
- Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa: 1.15
- Vancouver: 0.90

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

That's why Québec's reliance on Maghreban immigration will come to haunt them in the future. If I were them I would put severe brakes on that immigration.

There are certain countries whose national it is best to keep at a wide distance at all costs (Somalia, Afghanistan, Maghreb in general, and a few more countries).

Here when I see the US Right complaining about Latino immigrants... Gosh they don't know how lucky they are to have Catholic Latino immigrants whose grandchildren will integrate in US society over time! Here we would gladly trade our unassimilable immigrants for all the Latino immigrants in the world!!

We love latino immigrants. They are simply the best.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

That's why Québec's reliance on Maghreban immigration will come to haunt them in the future. If I were them I would put severe brakes on that immigration.

There are certain countries whose national it is best to keep at a wide distance at all costs (Somalia, Afghanistan, Maghreb in general, and a few more countries).

Here when I see the US Right complaining about Latino immigrants... Gosh they don't know how lucky they are to have Catholic Latino immigrants whose grandchildren will integrate in US society over time! Here we would gladly trade our unassimilable immigrants for all the Latino immigrants in the world!!

That is true. It’s the sad truth but there are some countries where it’s just best not to take thousands of immigrants from. Palestinians for example. In 2019, Denmark checked up on a wave of Palestinian refugees they had taken in in 1992 and a whopping 64% of them had a criminal record. And roughly 30% of their children had also acquired a criminal record. Palestinians are banned from immigration to most Arab countries for this reason.
Source : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYQ9ggO6Lhk

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Interesting stat seen on twitter.

TFR (number of children per woman) in 2023:
(for comparison: - France: 1.68 / - US: 1.62)
- Québec outside of Montréal and Québec City: 1.55
- Québec City: 1.35
- Montréal: 1.29
CANADA: 1.26
- Ottawa: 1.22
- Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa: 1.15
- Vancouver: 0.90

Guerre des berceaux 2.0 !?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by AverageMonctonEnjoyr

Guerre des berceaux 2.0 !?

Not really due to the big weight of Montréal. The difference between Québec's TFR and ROC's TFR is too small to make a difference. It's largely offset by the huge immigration that ROC receives. In a world with 0 immigration, then yes, that small TFR advantage of Québec would, over 100 years, materialize in a larger population growth than the ROC (or rather, a less sharp population decline than the ROC).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by AverageMonctonEnjoyr

We love latino immigrants. They are simply the best.

In Quebec, Latino immigrants are considered among the very best immigrants we receive, whereas in the USA they are considered a “problem”. Of course it is often partly a question of sheer numbers and not always about the qualities of the people themselves.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

If the French authorities tried a similar scheme, they would be called "fascist" or even "Nazi" by most of our medias and "intellectuals", who are all very left-wing.

Our new minister of the Interior is already called "far-right" simply because he wants to be a tiny bit harsher (or a tiny bit less soft rather) on immigration, such as extending administrative retention of dangerous illegal immigrants (i.e. those who committed serious crimes) to 180 days (under today's law, they can be set free after just 30 days even if they raped or killed someone). I'm talking of administrative retention before deportation here, not prison terms for their crimes (which they have completed already).

Tonight in one of the largest French newspapers I was reading this headline "[name of the Interior minister] is far outside the Republican arc" ("Republican" in France means "democratic"). The man who says that is the leader of the LFI far-left party in the National Assembly. In any other country, who would care what the leader of a far-left party has to say, let alone who the leader of a far-left party considers a "democrat" or not (I mean , from the political camp that gave us the killing fields of Cambodia, the tens of millions of deaths of Maoism, the gulag and Stalinist purges), but in France the guy is taken very very seriously, and his opinion that our Interior minister is "far outside the Republic arc" is deemed important enough to be the main headline of a national newspaper.

Our Interior minister would be considered a very mainstream CSU politician in Bavaria (perhaps even slightly left-of-center CSU due to his "humanist" stance on economic issues).

So your Scandinavian scheme implemented here...

Yes and if this is true in France you can imagine the reaction in Canada if a politician proposed something like this. He would be called a Nazi.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Denmark ranks its diasporas by average performance across a host of metrics now, culminating in net cost/benefit to the state. Sweden is launching a similar project. Somalia and Afghanistan do the worst.

In Canada the consensus belief that everyone has to adhere to (at least in public and in polite private company) is that an illiterate newcomer from the developing world is every bit as desirable or even more so than a highly educated person from the developed world. Of course there are ethno-racial tropes and dogmas that map onto this as well.

I sound critical of this but there is at least some historical basis for this if you look at the New Colossus mythology (imported from the USA of course but still somewhat relevant to Canadian history) where hard working unskilled people ended up building amazing lives here.

Of course the world is a very different place today. As is Canada.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In Canada the consensus belief that everyone has to adhere to (at least in public and in polite private company) is that an illiterate newcomer from the developing world is every bit as desirable or even more so than a highly educated person from the developed world. Of course there are ethno-racial tropes and dogmas that map onto this as well.

I sound critical of this but there is at least some historical basis for this if you look at the New Colossus mythology (imported from the USA of course but still somewhat relevant to Canadian history) where hard working unskilled people ended up building amazing lives here.

Of course the world is a very different place today. As is Canada.

I don't think that's true at all. It might be somewhat the case wrt refugees and we have limited control wrt undocumented migrants, but immigrants, by and large, need to meet Canada's criteria to be allowed in.

[MolsonExport]

In Canada the consensus belief that everyone has to adhere to (at least in public and in polite private company) is that an illiterate newcomer from the developing world is every bit as desirable or even more so than a highly educated person from the developed world.

Straw man alert

Also to those offering derogatory remarks about Palestinian immigrants, please remember that

Users should refrain from lumping people into a broad group or applying negative labels to a party or people

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Straw man alert

Also to those offering derogatory remarks about Palestinian immigrants, please remember that

I at least have not said anything derogatory about Palestinians - immigrants, refugees or otherwise.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I don't think that's true at all. It might be somewhat the case wrt refugees and we have limited control wrt undocumented migrants, but immigrants, by and large, need to meet Canada's criteria to be allowed in.

There is a difference between the actual policy and the societal consensus out there in the real world. Most people aren’t aware of the policy.

The USA has flirted with Canadianizing their policy to make it more skills-based and this is decried as racist over there because of course certain types of countries have better education systems.

If bien pensant Canadians looked more closely and honestly at ours they would be just as critical of it.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Straw man alert

Also to those offering derogatory remarks about Palestinian immigrants, please remember that

Is pointing out a correct stat that 64% of Palestinian migrants in Denmark have a criminal record lumping them all together? This suggests the integration process, the selection process is broken. Certainly the occupation and anarchy in especially Gaza also has increased criminality but there are many Palestinians working professionally to better their people and the world at large. I don't have stats to back this up but I beleive the US and Canadian Palestinians diaspora arriving in the 70s and 80s was highly educated and integrated well. Their grand-children are well educated and thriving. Yes they are at the protests on campus but I think we should give them a little lee-way on that.

Should we now take an illiterated former fighter now displaced from their home in Lebanon and expect the same success because lumping people together is wrong. I guess not all illterate people are uneducated? Certainly some are intelligent and just had no opportunity but that end result is mostly the same for adults.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I at least have not said anything derogatory about Palestinians - immigrants, refugees or otherwise.

You at least.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Is pointing out a correct stat that 64% of Palestinian migrants in Denmark have a criminal record lumping them all together? This suggests the integration process, the selection process is broken. Certainly the occupation and anarchy in especially Gaza also has increased criminality but there are many Palestinians working professionally to better their people and the world at large. I don't have stats to back this up but I beleive the US and Canadian Palestinians diaspora arriving in the 70s and 80s was highly educated and integrated well. Their grand-children are well educated and thriving. Yes they are at the protests on campus but I think we should give them a little lee-way on that.

Should we now take an illiterated former fighter now displaced from their home in Lebanon and expect the same success because lumping people together is wrong. I guess not all illterate people are uneducated? Certainly some are intelligent and just had no opportunity but that end result is mostly the same for adults.

If you don't like the forum rules, then you know what you can do.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Is pointing out a correct stat that 64% of Palestinian migrants in Denmark have a criminal record lumping them all together? This suggests the integration process, the selection process is broken. Certainly the occupation and anarchy in especially Gaza also has increased criminality but there are many Palestinians working professionally to better their people and the world at large. I don't have stats to back this up but I beleive the US and Canadian Palestinians diaspora arriving in the 70s and 80s was highly educated and integrated well. Their grand-children are well educated and thriving. Yes they are at the protests on campus but I think we should give them a little lee-way on that.

Should we now take an illiterated former fighter now displaced from their home in Lebanon and expect the same success because lumping people together is wrong. I guess not all illterate people are uneducated? Certainly some are intelligent and just had no opportunity but that end result is mostly the same for adults.

Fighter for whom? Your hypothetical ex-fighter would not likely be elegible for selection as either an immigrant or as a refugee.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Fighter for whom? Your hypothetical ex-fighter would not likely be elegible for selection as either an immigrant or as a refugee.

They might at least get onto Canadian soil and stay for a good while under our "let 'em in and ask questions later" policy that we've followed in recent years.

[lio45]

I'm guessing this is the best place on the forum for Quebec humor. This had me laughing out loud! So true.

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[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I at least have not said anything derogatory about Palestinians - immigrants, refugees or otherwise.

Huge difference between "untrue" and "negative". kool maudit sharing official Danish Government statistics with us isn't "derogatory" in any way, unless someone has a very different definition of the word than mine. That data doesn't look good for Palestinians, but the data is what it is.