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  #1001  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bridgeoftea View Post
That would be brilliant! It would probably add extra local tourism money into the cities pockets. For most weekend getaways where you're only planning to stay in the downtown core of the city. Why not, ditch the car and just use the rail service.
If you look at a map of Europe there are 200 km/h+ trains even in some relatively undeveloped areas like outside of major cities in Scandinavia. That is comparable or maybe less developed that the main corridor in the Maritimes. 200 km/h doesn't require the exotic technology of high speed trains.

A lot of the gains could come from building new track along highways in rural areas.

This train wouldn't just be a tourist train, it would be the best option for all sorts of different trips, and it would be a backbone for transport all around the region (e.g. bus to PEI or Cape Breton would connect to the main line).

I think it would take a bit of a "mental" shift in the Maritimes away from waiting for Ottawa to build stuff or hand over money and toward more intention from and cooperation between NS and NB. It would require capital investment and incremental improvement over a period of many years, and for much of that period the train wouldn't be that amazing as a transport option.
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  #1002  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 5:54 PM
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I think it would take a bit of a "mental" shift in the Maritimes away from waiting for Ottawa to build stuff or hand over money and toward more intention from and cooperation between NS and NB.
There used to be a line called the Atlantic which ran from Saint John through to Halifax (coming from Montreal) but it was cut in the 70s/80s. Elsie Wayne (the former mayor) actually started her political career trying to save it - if I recall. Here is some history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_(train)

I'd be curious how much of the existing infrastructure (mainly rail lines) are still in place between Halifax and Saint John to make this viable. I would assume they are still active lines but I know the ones into and out of Fredericton have since become trails so hopefully not the case between Saint John and Moncton.

I think if it were to proceed, the pilot would need to be cleaner diesel trains at first to assess ridership and feasibility with a goal of electrified lines - one day. An economic corridor like this would be a smart move.
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  #1003  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 6:04 PM
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I believe the Halifax <> SJ route plans are on VIA's project list and have been for years now. But unless it's the Corridor, VIA doesn't pay any attention to things.

So other than trotting the plans out to show that VIA does know the rest of the country exists (and then putting them at the back of the filing cabinet until a show is needed again), there doesn't seem to be much political push towards setting up this sort of project any time soon. Which is a bit sad, because as the cities develop, pushing the stations and right of ways through will be more and more difficult. Thankfully Halifax to Moncton is already in place so they only need to set up SJ to Moncton and get some trains running on it. But this is veering more towards "Atlantic Canada Regional Transportation Thread" discussions.
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  #1004  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 6:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugsley View Post
I'd be curious how much of the existing infrastructure (mainly rail lines) are still in place between Halifax and Saint John to make this viable. I would assume they are still active lines but I know the ones into and out of Fredericton have since become trails so hopefully not the case between Saint John and Moncton.
.
Definitely getting off on a tangent here, but I just want to assure you that the CNR line between the Hump Yard in Moncton and Saint John is Class 1 trackage and sees daily usage with large container trains and also oil trains heading to the refinery in Saint John. This line does not need to be upgraded (except for perhaps some sidings if passenger traffic were to get reestablished).

The main infrastructure needs would be for passenger stations along the way.
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  #1005  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2022, 7:26 PM
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In SJ, start the train at what's currently the Harbour Station bus stop. Rothesay already has 18 Station Road- simply buy it back and upgrade it. Hampton has the Visitor's Center at 657 Main. Sussex, 66 Broad. Petitcodiac has plenty of space between Main and the tracks to build new. Salisbury, IDK. Is it big enough? Put something near Fredericton Road where it crosses the tracks if needed.

That's 5 conversions and at most two new builds.

Copy Japan and don't waste money on station megaprojects.
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  #1006  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2022, 2:26 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
It's been a while since i've done any carving up of the NB ridings but what we'll likely see is a transplant of one Northern riding to SE NB. It won't be a one-for-one, of course, but mostly making the Northern ridings larger geographically and pushing them further south. Shippagan absorbs Caraquet, Tracadie-Sheila pushes south, Miramichi Bay pushes south, Southwest Miramichi pushes south etc. until you have an additional Kent/Shediac riding.

The problem with this is still Memramcook-Tantramar as that's a weird riding to draw due to riding size and linguistic protectionism. It's possible that Shediac Bay-Dieppe gets pushed way smaller and into Dieppe, opening up space for an additional Shediac riding. It's possible we'll end up with just a 'Shediac' riding in the future, though, without having to be tagged onto Beaubassin, Cap-Pele, or Shediac Bay. The Greens did really well in Cap-Pele in 2020 so that will be interesting to see how that plays out.

The same will happen in the NW and Western NB. Northern ridings geographically become larger, push south slightly to account for the growth in Fredericton and environs.


Fredericton seems pretty straightforward - Take the more urban areas of Hanwell-New Maryland-Oromocto-Lincoln and merge them into a second Fredericton South riding, but that has big effects on those ridings and what to do with the remainder of them. I'm not sure if the redistricting committee would consider it but a riding with Oromocto-Minto-Chipman might be possible, with the western edges of those ridings being pushed into more urban Fredericton ridings.



Saint John ridings probably stay the same. The region is growing at or below provincial growth rates IIRC.
Let me continue regarding Fredericton and Moncton/North Shore trades.

I think Fredericton is the only area to actually get a major redraw. There's a lot of tendrils directly into city limits, vs Moncton where the districts simply extend into similar, adjacent, currently-unincorporated territory.

Fredericton North can just contract somewhat. No major changes needed. Name: Fredericton North

Fredericton-York can become a new suburban seat wrapped around Fredericton North adding territory from Fredericton-Grand Lake. One of the Carleton seats can take Stanley. Fredericton-Devon?

Fredericton South should shift either east or west into west Fredericton or Lincoln, shrinking anyway. I would think moving east towards Fredericton's city limits and grabbing Lincoln would make sense, taking urban territory from O-L-F. Fredericton-Lincoln

Oromocto-Lincoln-Fredericton should add Burton and Gagetown and lose its share of Fredericton and Lincoln. Make it a true military influence district. Oromocto-Gagetown

New Maryland-Sunbury can likely condense to just New Maryland and Hanwell, losing its rural extremities to shore up rural seats in the southwest. New Maryland-Hanwell

What's left of Fredericton-Grand Lake and what's left of Gagetown-Petitcodiac can form a new rural district north of the Saint John River. G-P's eastern segments can be added to more appropriate rural/Moncton-area seats. G-P is easy to destroy. York-Grand Lake

That leaves Fredericton West-Hanwell to shrink into the second urban seat, with the smaller New Marylnd-Hanwell seat beneath it. Fredericton West
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  #1007  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2022, 2:49 PM
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Moncton has seen so much inflow it's hard to get granular without guessing. It's also not a total mess, COI-wise. I presume the four core ridings (Moncton South, Moncton Centre, Riverview, and Dieppe) all contract but continue to exist.

Moncton East should definitely lose much of its rural portions, as should Northwest and Southwest (talk about uninspired names), Albert pulls out of Salisbury. All four have to take on outlying parts of the inner ridings.

Draw a new seat out of the territory these four seats vacate, which should be quite exurban/rural/English in nature.

Shediac gets a seat of its own, functionally the successor of Shediac-Beaubassin-Cap-Pelé, which is dissolved. Beaubassin ends up Memramcook-Tantramar. Shediac Bay-Dieppe becomes Dieppe's second seat proper.
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  #1008  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2022, 2:53 PM
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I thought I would repost this from the Canada section:

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Originally Posted by zahav View Post
The sub provincial migration figures for 2020-2021 have come out. The numbers are fairly consisent with the provincial totals when it comes to interprovincial migration. For CMAs, the only ones that gained are:

Vancouver: +12,765
Halifax: +5,594
Victoria: +5,235
Kelowna: +3,535
Ottawa: +1,542
Moncton: +1,068
Abbotsford: +869
Sain John: +423

A few others gained less than 100, whch is statistically insignificant. BC made up half of the fastest growing, with all 4 of it's CMAs in the top 8.

The bottom are:
Winnipeg: -7,466
Toronto: -6,636
Edmonton: -4,272
Montreal: -3,616
Saskatoon: -3,462
Regina: -3,345
Calgary: -2,953

All the other CMAs (all the ones in AB and ON) lost people to other provinces. It's quite something to see the bottom list, it makes up the majority of major urban areas in the country.

For CAs (smaller centres), the results are similar. The top 15 biggest gainers were:
Nanaimo (BC): +1,116
Vernon (BC): +705
Kamloops (BC): +692
Courtenay (BC): +636
Penticton (BC): +482
Chilliwack (BC): +422
Truro (NS): +375
Prince George (BC): +350
Campbell River (BC): +347
Parksville (BC): +346
Duncan (BC): +329
Squamish (BC): +324
New Glasgow (NS): +322
Nelson (BC): +289
Charlottetown (PE): +287

Each one of BC's and Atlantic Canada's CAs grew thru interprovincial migration. I won't list the bottom 15, but they were all AB, SK, MB, and ON.

The numbers are interesting because they show that smaller centres can be magnets for interprovincial growth, not just intraprovincial growth. Conversley, smaller centres in ON tend to be magnets for growth intraprovincially (ie. people escaping the bigger centres) but have losses to other provinces.

It is a very stark demonstration of the shifts in the country in the last few years. BC and Atlantic Canada being magents and everywhere else struggling.
In terms of interprovincial migration, the only parts of Canada currently benefiting are the Maritimes and BC.

The major areas losing population to other parts of Canada are Ontario and the Prairies.

This puts statistical evidence out there to back up the anecdotal stories that the Maritimes are filling up with Ontario (especially Toronto) refugees...........

Documentary evidence. Proof. The flight to the coasts is very real.
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  #1009  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2022, 5:40 PM
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I wonder why Fredericton was excluded?
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  #1010  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 8:50 PM
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From the Moncton thread:

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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
We now have complete 2021 building permit valuations for the extended Moncton metropolitan area (save for unincorporated areas).

Moncton - $296.5M
Dieppe - $101.9M
Riverview - $55.8M
Shediac - $54.0M

TOTAL - $508.2M

That's right, building permit valuation in the extended Moncton metropolitan area for 2021 exceeded a half billion dollars!!!

We also have 187M for Fredericton.

I don't know where those numbers come from exactly, but I'd love to see Saint John's numbers. Because at this point I'm pretty sure the tricities are probably within spitting distance of a billion dollars in building permits for 2021 at this point.

I know it's just a number, but it is a nice milestone number, and shows just how much the region is growing.
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  #1011  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 9:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeolas View Post
From the Moncton thread:




We also have 187M for Fredericton.

I don't know where those numbers come from exactly, but I'd love to see Saint John's numbers. Because at this point I'm pretty sure the tricities are probably within spitting distance of a billion dollars in building permits for 2021 at this point.

I know it's just a number, but it is a nice milestone number, and shows just how much the region is growing.
The City of Saint John reported $116.8 million for 2021.
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  #1012  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 9:03 PM
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It would be nice to have values for Oromocto and for Rothesay/Quispamsis/Hampton to make things comparable between the three extended metropolitan areas........
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  #1013  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 9:12 PM
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SJ seems a bit low; but I'm suer their 2022 numbers will really start climbing with the activity we've been tracking. And a lot of activity in the extended area will push those numbers up too I'm sure.

So just the 3 core cities, we have 600M. And 800M with the numbers reported in this thread (not counting Oromocto, Rothesay, Quispamsis, etc...). In total the province is probably well over a Billion, but the tri-cities aren't quite there yet. We could crack it this year though.
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  #1014  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2022, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Taeolas View Post
SJ seems a bit low; but I'm suer their 2022 numbers will really start climbing with the activity we've been tracking. And a lot of activity in the extended area will push those numbers up too I'm sure.
I wonder how much the SJ number is suppressed due to vacant building stock being available, providing for renovations rather than new builds.
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  #1015  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 3:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeolas View Post
From the Moncton thread:




We also have 187M for Fredericton.

I don't know where those numbers come from exactly, .
Fredericton numbers are detailed here: https://www.fredericton.ca/en/news/c...tivity-in-2021
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  #1016  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2022, 6:43 PM
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Laceoflight (one of the Canada section forumers) just posted a list of Canadian metropolitan areas with the populations calculated using American rules for their CSAs (census statistical areas). Here are the values he generated for Maritime CMAs and larger CAs.

Halifax - 504,235
St. John's - 276,852
Moncton - 231,476
Saint John - 149,835
Fredericton - 138,115
Charlottetown - 116,218

I think this is good work. The closest Statistics Canada equivalent to a US CSA is an "economic region". At least for Moncton, the value he obtained is essentially the same as our economic region.
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  #1017  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2022, 5:05 PM
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From Stats Can: "For the first time in the census since the 1940s, the population of the Maritimes grew at a faster pace than the Prairie provinces, due to rising immigration levels and an influx of Canadians migrating from other parts of the country."
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  #1018  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2022, 6:00 PM
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Here are the official population numbers from StatCan from the 2021 Census released today. Freddy officially acknowledged as a CMA


https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...pid=9810000501
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  #1019  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2022, 6:32 PM
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Glad to see Saint John cracking 130k and with a 3.5% growth rate since 2016. Surely CBC and co. will find a way to spin this negatively, however

Congrats to Fredericton on CMA status!
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  #1020  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2022, 7:47 PM
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It's nice to see Freddy officially on those lists now. Sure we knew it was a CMA before and all that; but it wasn't being included on the CMA lists until now.

Also if the trends keep going well, we'll easily crack 800k in the entire province by 2026 (the next Census cycle). We added over 25k last time, and we're at 775ish now.
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