Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[lio45]

Yeah, it's not the same anger/urgency as with JT, but there's still a very large chunk of the electorate that has soured on the CAQ now. Unless things change drastically, the CAQ is going to bleed a lot of voters. We tried them, gave them their chance, and nah, they're just a standard old school political party now, with typical bad habits and all, and who needs to be kicked from power after 8 years, which BTW would apply to nearly any political party IMO, whether right/left or sovereigntist/federalist. (It's rare that a uniparty domination is a good thing in the long run in any democracy: better to reboot every once in a while! Governments need to be aware there are alternatives, otherwise they start behaving like they're royalty.)

My gold standard for any political party: "They've been in power for 8 continuous years and things are going so amazingly well under them when compared to our historical norms that we should STILL continue to reelect them".

Needless to say, the CAQ doesn't meet that bar. Nor do the Federal Liberals.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

PCQ is definitely popular in the regions, and agreed a Layton style surge would energise the regions to vote for Duhaime.

Only in certain regions, though. In many regions including mine they only register a faint blip.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am in a neo-CAQ region and no there isn't that much anger towards them here as much as there is disappointment and disillusionment. Still not a good situation for Legault but it does mean he could win some people back if he improves things.

Agreed, and compared to Ontario the situation is still rosy in Quebec, so Legault has runway to improve things.

In the family, SO only has to remind them the current societal trainwreck Toronto has become, bearing the brunt of Trudeau's failed multiculturalist and post-national state experiment.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Agreed, and compared to Ontario the situation is still rosy in Quebec, so Legault has runway to improve things.

In the family, SO only has to remind them the current societal trainwreck Toronto has become, bearing the brunt of Trudeau's failed multiculturalist and post-national state experiment.

So everything has gone to pot in Ontario but things are doing well in Quebec and this is the federal government's fault? Not sure I follow that logic.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Agreed, and compared to Ontario the situation is still rosy in Quebec, so Legault has runway to improve things.

In the family, SO only has to remind them the current societal trainwreck Toronto has become, bearing the brunt of Trudeau's failed multiculturalist and post-national state experiment.

Many Montrealers think their city is a disaster, but it's also true they don't really compare to any other city and so their other points of reference are non-existent. Well, maybe Quebec City.

[Zeej]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Many Montrealers think their city is a disaster, but it's also true they don't really compare to any other city and so their other points of reference are non-existent. Well, maybe Quebec City.

Not really?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Latest poll. PQ is ahead in all age groups.

Are they toning down their referendum stance at the moment, or still proclaiming it loud and clear?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Interestingly enough, the hardline sovereignists in my SO's extended family are all female.

A lot of far-left firebrands in France are female. Ultimate gender equality I suppose.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Zeej

Not really?

Oh and Anglo-Montrealers do compare with Toronto! Whose advantages are mostly in the realm of living more freely as anglo and the (North) American big city trappings that go along with that like more US chains, and NBA team and Taylor Swift concerts.

Just teasing. Sorta...

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

As noted already plenty of times on this forum, voters nowadays mostly tend to vote against whoever is currently in charge making things worse. Federally these days that means voting PP/BQ, and provincially that means voting PQ.

Not sure whether I'd vote yes or not in a third referendum, but if I were voting in a provincial election right now, I'd vote to kick out the CAQ clowns, which means voting PQ. (If Duhaime had a Layton-style surge, then I'd happily switch my PQ vote to a PCQ vote.)

(Back when the urgency was to get rid of the Couillard govt, I was a CAQ voter back then. Exact same logic!)

I'd say that explanation is only partly true. Surely you wouldn't consider voting for an Anglophone party wishing to turn Québec into a fully Anglophone province and ban the French language, even if that party was the only serious alternative to topple the CAQ.

So you do also vote for PQ because you adhere to their program, or at least because their program is not too abhorrent to you, and not just because "they are the only party that can topple the CAQ".

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Agreed, and compared to Ontario the situation is still rosy in Quebec, so Legault has runway to improve things.

In the family, SO only has to remind them the current societal trainwreck Toronto has become, bearing the brunt of Trudeau's failed multiculturalist and post-national state experiment.

Holding up Toronto as some sort of indictment of the principle of multiculturalism is pretty weak. The city would be experiencing the same ailments if we had hundreds of thousands of immigrants and students/TFWs coming from the UK and France. If Montreal added the equivalent of a Longueuil every 2 years and didn't build the housing supply to match, I don't think it would matter if they were all blue-blooded francophones.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

So everything has gone to pot in Ontario but things are doing well in Quebec and this is the federal government's fault? Not sure I follow that logic.

Quebec politics as you know are... complicated.

Right now it's as Lio said: the PQ are simply the people most likely to beat the CAQ.

So they're drawing support for that - not solely of course, but part of it is that.

But putting sovereignty back on the front-burner is going to be an obvious effect of that. Even if it's by ricochet.

Add to that the fact that the Canadian government is sputtering rather badly. Quebec's isn't perfect by any stretch, but historically the feds have always looked stronger and better than the Quebec government. It's always been an Achilles heel of the sovereignist side in fact.

So even a situation where the feds and the province would look roughly equally incompetent is actually a plus for the PQ.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

and who needs to be kicked from power after 8 years, which BTW would apply to nearly any political party IMO, whether right/left or sovereigntist/federalist. (It's rare that a uniparty domination is a good thing in the long run in any democracy: better to reboot every once in a while! Governments need to be aware there are alternatives, otherwise they start behaving like they're royalty.)

The Bavarian CSU has been in power for 67 straight years (and counting), and Bavaria is doing extremely well. Québec could only dream of their economic success and the impeccable management of their cities.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

and the (North) American big city trappings that go along with that like more US chains, and NBA team and Taylor Swift concerts.

Montréal doesn't get Taylor Swift, but it gets Mylène Farmer. Let's see if that overhyped Taylor Swift still fills enormous stadiums 30 years down the line.

• Video Link

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Are they toning down their referendum stance at the moment, or still proclaiming it loud and clear?

PSPP speaks more clearly and frequently about independence than any PQ leader we've seen in quite some time.

I am sure it's not every issue but on many many issues he'll say "this is the type of problem we could more effectively address if only we were independent".

Prior to him, the PQ's strategy for a long time was more that of the "bon gouvernement" (as it is called) with a "on verra en temps et lieu" when it came to independence.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Montréal doesn't get Taylor Swift, but it gets Mylène Farmer. Let's see if that overhyped Taylor Swift still fills enormous stadiums 30 years down the line.

• Video Link

I don't think Mylène Farmer has ever played in Montreal. So not really a good example. She's actually the huge exception among big French names, almost all of which play in Montreal it's true.

Ironic because she was born here when her father was on a work assignment.

(I'd go see her for sure.)

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

So everything has gone to pot in Ontario but things are doing well in Quebec and this is the federal government's fault? Not sure I follow that logic.

It's twofold. A federal government whose policies are causing tremendous stress and damage to Toronto and Southern Ontario in general, and a provincial government that's openly supporting this trainwreck.

We have a premier and provincial government who's not in the least bit interested in defending the province against irresponsible federal policies, and if anything is secretly cheerleading for these immigration ponzi schemes by letting Ontario's public/private college scams proliferate to take advantage of federal open border policies.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't think Mylène Farmer has ever played in Montreal. So not really a good example. She's actually the huge exception among big French names, almost all of which play in Montreal it's true.

Ironic because she was born here when her father was on a work assignment.

(I'd go see her for sure.)

I saw a "Mylène Farmer Montréal 2024" ad on my computer.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I saw a "Mylène Farmer Montréal 2024" ad on my computer.

Please share because I can't find anything.

It would be fairly big news if a show was announced. I'd have heard about it.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Holding up Toronto as some sort of indictment of the principle of multiculturalism is pretty weak. The city would be experiencing the same ailments if we had hundreds of thousands of immigrants and students/TFWs coming from the UK and France. If Montreal added the equivalent of a Longueuil every 2 years and didn't build the housing supply to match, I don't think it would matter if they were all blue-blooded francophones.

I don't think housing supply would solve the issues that Toronto faces with this unprecedented surge of fake students and NPRs. Even if housing supply magically appears, Toronto will still have to deal with a mess of social ailments that it's uniquely unequipped to deal with, like integration of a vast underclass holding onto strong foreign identities, building a common identity for social cohesion or capping the size of the GTA's ethnic ghettos like Brampton.

As for the hypothetical of hundreds of thousands of immigrants/students flooding in from modern UK and France in a given year, what's the probability of that ever happening?