Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

France did not "concentrate" them in specific areas (that old cliché). It's just for a variety of reasons (that were never part of a specific plan or policy) they ended up concentrated in specific areas.

These reasons include:
- too many fragmented municipalities (because France refuses municipality mergers unlike the rest of Europe, so where London has only 33 boroughs, Paris over the same urban territory has no less than... 244 independent municipalities! ), with many of these small municipalities being taken over by hard-left parties (whereas in larger London boroughs, which mix up more diverse populations over larger territories, it's hard for non-mainstream parties to win power), and these hard-left mayors (members of the French Communist Party in general) have deliberate policies of building more than 50% of social housing (i.e. more than 50% of dwellings in the entire municipality are social housing) to attract impoverished and working-class populations who will vote for them and keep them in power. More recently those hard-left mayors have pandered to the Islamists and what Québec would call the "ethnic vote".

- a glut of badly built social housing built cheaply in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s on the outskirts of almost all French cities when the French population was booming and lots of new housing was needed. Native French people have quickly left these social housing areas (called "cités" in France, in the US they would be called "projects") because the buildings have decayed, and the native White population has been replaced by mostly African populations (Blacks and Arabs). It's a natural process, not something that the authorities have ever devised or implemented.

- the fact that France's immigration is predominantly coming from Africa since the 1970s, whereas immigration in Germany or the UK was until recently coming predominantly from Europe, and people with a very different culture are harder to integrate than Europeans.

All of these combined lead to the disastrous situation of many French suburbs. It could only be improved if a- we massively merged our urban municipalities to root out extremist parties and have our large cities ruled by mainstream, centrist parties, and b- if we stopped African immigration (which the left and even the center in France consider "fascist" or "far-right"). The new French government to be announced before Monday should have a right-wing conservative as the new minister of the Interior, a guy who would be considered just an average Conservative in Canada or the UK, or an average Christian-Democrat in Germany, but here the left-wing media and parties, and even some centrists, are already saying that we allow a "hard-right" "arch-conservative" guy "whose values we don't share" to enter the government, as if he was some sort of Steve Bannon extremist.

This is France. Far too lax, far too left-wing, as usual. Here QS would be considered just mainstream left, the PQ already rightwing, and Legault probably super right-wing and "ultralibéral" (which is a great insult in French politics, think Thatcher as the quintessential "ultralibéral").

Thats a very good explanation actually. Those high concentrations of migrants are especially in cities like Paris or Marseilles and somewhow pose problem. These large communities never integrate well with france from what I’ve seen. France’s immigration politics never took account of good integration of the migrants population. And yes the left is to blame for that.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Thanks for your snark, but we have our own thing going.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_English

And like it or not, so too do the French Canadians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_French
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acadian_French

I personally can’t tell apart american english from canadian english. Only depends on accent. But I can easily tell apart canadian french & french french

[MolsonExport]

- the fact that France's immigration is predominantly coming from Africa since the 1970s, whereas immigration in Germany or the UK was until recently coming predominantly from Europe, and people with a very different culture are harder to integrate than Europeans.

Selective and revisionist history, as usual.

Commonwealth immigration, made up largely of economic migrants, rose from 3,000 per year in 1953 to 46,800 in 1956 and 136,400 in 1961.[24] The heavy numbers of migrants resulted in the establishment of a Cabinet committee in June 1950 to find "ways which might be adopted to check the immigration into this country of coloured people from British colonial territories".[24]

Indians began arriving in the UK in large numbers shortly after their country gained independence in 1947, although there were a number of people from India living in the UK even in the earlier years. More than 60,000 arrived before 1955, many of whom drove buses, or worked in foundries or textile factories.[citation needed] The flow of Indian immigrants peaked between 1965 and 1972, boosted in particular by Ugandan dictator Idi Amin's sudden decision to expel all 50,000 Asians (people of Indian or Pakistani origin) from Uganda. Around 30,000 Ugandan Asians emigrated to the UK.[32]

Following the independence of Pakistan, Pakistani immigration to the United Kingdom increased, especially during the 1950s and 1960s. Many Pakistanis came to Britain following the turmoil during the partition of India and the subsequent independence of Pakistan; among them were those who migrated to Pakistan upon displacement from India, and then emigrated to the UK, thus becoming secondary migrants.[33] Migration was made easier as Pakistan was a member of the Commonwealth of Nations.[34] Pakistanis were invited by employers to fill labour shortages which arose after the Second World War. As Commonwealth citizens, they were eligible for most British civic rights. They found employment in the textile industries of Lancashire and Yorkshire, manufacturing in the West Midlands, and car production and food processing industries of Luton and Slough. It was common for Pakistani employees to work nightshifts and at other less-desirable hours.[35]

In addition, there was a stream of migrants from East Pakistan (now Bangladesh).[36][37] During the 1970s, a large number of East African-Asians, most of whom already held British passports because they had been British subjects settled in the overseas colonies, entered the United Kingdom from Kenya and Uganda, particularly as a result of the expulsion of Asians from Uganda by Idi Amin in 1972. A majority of the Pakistani immigrants to UK trace their origin to Mirpur district in the region presently called Azad Kashmir.[38][39][40]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern...United_Kingdom

[mousquet]

Brisavoine basically refers to the immigration deals that countries from the former French colonial empire have made with the French government.

It is easier for someone from Algeria or Senegal to get and renew a visa than it is for anybody from South Korea or Peru, for instance.
We're talking about people from non-EU countries here.

I find it unfair, breaking the rules of equality that the French are supposed to be faithful to, but they say it's fair compensation for old colonialism.
The problem is colonialism is getting really old these days... Most of us weren't born back then, so we can't really understand any longer.

Take the nationalist Algerian regime. They keep on saying that France is responsible for all their failures when they've been independent since 1962 or something.
People over here are starting to think they're getting screwed.
We have to welcome some population that has been forever told that France was a criminal nation that enslaved them all, so of course, those buying that kind of propaganda don't really like us.
It feels like we're being invaded by some hostile people to some extent.

Moreover, that kind of immigration puts wages in a number of sectors of the economy under pressure, like construction and hotels/restaurants.
It's a good deal for entrepreneurs involved in these kinds of businesses. Workforce is cheaper to them.
But then again, we find it unfair.

All over Europe, people are growing skeptical about unleashed deregulated immigration.

[harls]

Originally Posted by AverageMonctonEnjoyr

I personally can’t tell apart american english from canadian english. Only depends on accent. But I can easily tell apart canadian french & french french

I would imagine if you grew up in English Canada, you'd be able to tell the difference between a Canadian and American.. and I'm not talking about over the top southern twang.

It took a while for me to hear the differences in accents within Quebec, but now I can certainly tell the difference between someone from the Saguenay vs Montreal, for example.

One thing for sure.. do not call someone from New Zealand an 'aussie'.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by harls

One thing for sure.. do not call someone from New Zealand an 'aussie'.

Have you watched The Piano, released 1993? It's a creepy love story starring Holly Hunter who earned the best actress Academy Award for her performance and Harvey Keitel, that's staged in late 19th-century New Zealand.

It's the weirdest and best thing we've got from New Zealand.
The love story begins with some kind of prostitution deal... I find it shocking.
But hey, they fall in love, so I guess it's okay. Though it's really strange.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by harls

I would imagine if you grew up in English Canada, you'd be able to tell the difference between a Canadian and American.. and I'm not talking about over the top southern twang.

It took a while for me to hear the differences in accents within Quebec, but now I can certainly tell the difference between someone from the Saguenay vs Montreal, for example.

One thing for sure.. do not call someone from New Zealand an 'aussie'.

Ask them to say "fish and chips". If it comes out "fesh and cheps", they're a Kiwi.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Selective and revisionist history, as usual.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern...United_Kingdom

Apparently you haven't followed what's been going on in the UK since 2004 when they opened their borders to Eastern European workers. But hey, how would you know. You don't even live in Europe. (sounds familiar?)

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Apparently you haven't followed what's been going on in the UK since 2004 when they opened their borders to Eastern European workers. But hey, how would you know. You don't even live in Europe. (sounds familiar?)

Yes the Eastern European "we are all Christians" didn't really get the anti immigration sentiment was about them as much as anyone. Some of the biggest leave areas really only had immigration from Eastern Europe. The anti immigraiton means racist reflex is maybe true a lot but not always. The Canadian worry about it now certainly isn't mostly racist anymore.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

I would imagine if you grew up in English Canada, you'd be able to tell the difference between a Canadian and American.. and I'm not talking about over the top southern twang.

It took a while for me to hear the differences in accents within Quebec, but now I can certainly tell the difference between someone from the Saguenay vs Montreal, for example.

One thing for sure.. do not call someone from New Zealand an 'aussie'.

It seems to me that lots of English Canadians (and people who grew up in English Canada) in fact can't tell *certain* Americans apart from Canadians.

And as you say, there are the outlier accents in the US, not limited to those from the South but also Boston, New York, Chicago, etc. You also have Newfoundlander in Canada of course.

But there is also "General American English" which features an accent exhibited by over half of the US population, and which most linguists consider virtually identical to Standard Canadian English.

You need to be quite lucky and have Canadians or Americans happen to drop certain very specific cues typical of their home country in order to tell a speaker of either apart.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Apparently you haven't followed what's been going on in the UK since 2004 when they opened their borders to Eastern European workers. But hey, how would you know. You don't even live in Europe. (sounds familiar?)

• Video Link• Video Link

[MolsonExport]

• Video Link

Le journaliste Patrick Lagacé a affirmé, sur son blogue, que l'une des publicités de cette bière, diffusée à la télévision en 1986, est "la pub la plus kitsch, la plus moche, la plus mal jouée de toute l’histoire des pubs de bière"

[Acajack]

Latest poll. PQ is ahead in all age groups.

https://x.com/scrypticwriter/status/...073200/photo/1

Most interesting here:

Québec solidaire is now behind the fledgling Parti conservateur du Québec, which is led by Éric Duhaime.

The PQ is scoring higher with women than with men. This is a bit of a surprise as the sovereignists have historically always done quite a bit better with men.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

• Video Link

Le journaliste Patrick Lagacé a affirmé, sur son blogue, que l'une des publicités de cette bière, diffusée à la télévision en 1986, est "la pub la plus kitsch, la plus moche, la plus mal jouée de toute l’histoire des pubs de bière"

Est-ce que ce vidéo serait dans le mauvais fil?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

Est-ce que ce vidéo serait dans le mauvais fil?

Culture et identité québécoise?

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Latest poll. PQ is ahead in all age groups.

https://x.com/scrypticwriter/status/...073200/photo/1

Most interesting here:

Québec solidaire is now behind the fledgling Parti conservateur du Québec, which is led by Éric Duhaime.

The PQ is scoring higher with women than with men. This is a bit of a surprise as the sovereignists have historically always done quite a bit better with men.

Interestingly enough, the hardline sovereignists in my SO's extended family are all female. So anecdotally the poll seems reasonable to me. Most of the men in the family are in the mushy middle or at most soft on sovereignty, but don't see it as a priority.

Most of the family supporting PQ is soft as well (they're much less enthused about PSPP than the media hoo-ha), and they're mostly throwing their support at the local PQ candidate who has the best local ground game in the region. They still like Legault and wouldn't hesitate jumping back on the CAQ bandwagon or consider PCQ though when the election rolls around. QS has definitely fallen out of favour with their ideological adherence to wokisme.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Interestingly enough, the hardline sovereignists in my SO's extended family are all female. So anecdotally the poll seems reasonable to me. Most of the men in the family are in the mushy middle or at most soft on sovereignty, but don't see it as a priority.

Most of the family supporting PQ is soft as well (they're much less enthused about PSPP than the media hoo-ha), and they're mostly throwing their support at the local PQ candidate who has the best local ground game in the region. They still like Legault and wouldn't hesitate jumping back on the CAQ bandwagon or consider PCQ though when the election rolls around. QS has definitely fallen out of favour with their ideological adherence to wokisme.

As noted already plenty of times on this forum, voters nowadays mostly tend to vote against whoever is currently in charge making things worse. Federally these days that means voting PP/BQ, and provincially that means voting PQ.

Not sure whether I'd vote yes or not in a third referendum, but if I were voting in a provincial election right now, I'd vote to kick out the CAQ clowns, which means voting PQ. (If Duhaime had a Layton-style surge, then I'd happily switch my PQ vote to a PCQ vote.)

(Back when the urgency was to get rid of the Couillard govt, I was a CAQ voter back then. Exact same logic!)

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by lio45

but if I were voting in a provincial election right now, I'd vote to kick out the CAQ clowns, which means voting PQ. (If Duhaime had a Layton-style surge, then I'd happily switch my PQ vote to a PCQ vote.)

(Back when the urgency was to get rid of the Couillard govt, I was a CAQ voter back then. Exact same logic!)

In the regions at least (which is quite a contrast from the sentiment I'm used to on the island), I got the feeling the anti-CAQ sentiment isn't particularly strong. If anything they'd comment more about how sorry they feel that we have to be ruled by the clownish dimwit Doug Ford in Ontario

PCQ is definitely popular in the regions, and agreed a Layton style surge would energise the regions to vote for Duhaime.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Interestingly enough, the hardline sovereignists in my SO's extended family are all female. So anecdotally the poll seems reasonable to me. Most of the men in the family are in the mushy middle or at most soft on sovereignty, but don't see it as a priority.

Most of the family supporting PQ is soft as well (they're much less enthused about PSPP than the media hoo-ha), and they're mostly throwing their support at the local PQ candidate who has the best local ground game in the region. They still like Legault and wouldn't hesitate jumping back on the CAQ bandwagon or consider PCQ though when the election rolls around. QS has definitely fallen out of favour with their ideological adherence to wokisme.

QS had a lot of growth potential in Quebec at one time but it's insane how they placed a very low ceiling over their own heads with that ideological choice. Talk about not reading the room.

Everything happens for a reason though, so maybe it's just a self-fulfilling prophecy that it wasn't meant to be.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

In the regions at least (which is quite a contrast from the sentiment I'm used to on the island), I got the feeling the anti-CAQ sentiment isn't particularly strong..

I am in a neo-CAQ region and no there isn't that much anger towards them here as much as there is disappointment and disillusionment. Still not a good situation for Legault but it does mean he could win some people back if he improves things.