Utterly random Montreal brain droppings

[Northern Light]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Canada doesn't do art museums, really. In the U.S. every podunk rust belt metro has an impressive art museum. Toledo has a shockingly good museum. Cleveland has a top-tier, museum among the best in the world. In Canada, even Toronto's museum is pretty meh.

I'd imagine Canada didn't have the early 20th century industrial titan types, or if they did, they were doing other civic stuff, or just spending it on women or something. Or maybe the WASP heritage meant no frivolous stuff.

You really need to demonstrate that you know what you're talking about, because your posts almost always suggest otherwise.

Toronto's museum? In a discussion of Art Galleries, did you mean the Art Gallery of Ontario whose latest addition was designed by the late Mr. Gehry or the Royal Ontario Museum? I assume one of the two since those are the largest.

While neither is a global top 20 player, they are both solid institutions with good collection depth.

I mean AGO's collection is 90,000 works deep

****

The National Gallery of Canada, in Ottawa is quite good too. But the best thing about it is the architecture, and that's not knocking the collections.

ROM's collection is 18 million objects/artifacts.

[shappy]

He's not far off. The AGO is pretty meh. The ROM, on the other hand, is very impressive and often considered best in Canada and a top 5-10 in NA.

[Crawford]

The AGO is not impressive relative to Toronto's importance. The ROM is mostly a natural history museum.

We all have our subjective biases, but I think it would be hard to argue that there wasn't some divergence between American and Canadian cities re. industrial age titans and civic art collections.

[niwell]

I'd rank the AGO as a *good* museum overall, but yes, it is accurate to say that in comparison to art museums in smaller American cities it's not going to compare in terms of historic collections. We simply didn't have the wealthy individual donors in that era that even mid-sized American cities had in terms of acquiring these things. Hence, the best collections are Canadian and contemporary art.

That type of industrialist donor just wasn't as much of a thing here, which bleeds into other realms as well. Design-wise I do like the AGO a lot though, and the modern addition is very nice, inside and out.

Canada does have plenty of excellent museums that fit into other categories. But art, and particularly art of a certain era is unfortunately not one of them.

[James Bond Agent 007]

One of the galleries in the museum was temporarily closed off. Maybe that's the one with the European art. Still, as far as I could tell it didn't look like it would have been particularly big.

[Northern Light]

Originally Posted by niwell

I'd rank the AGO as a *good* museum overall, but yes, it is accurate to say that in comparison to art museums in smaller American cities it's not going to compare in terms of historic collections. We simply didn't have the wealthy individual donors in that era that even mid-sized American cities had in terms of acquiring these things. Hence, the best collections are Canadian and contemporary art.

That type of industrialist donor just wasn't as much of a thing here, which bleeds into other realms as well. Design-wise I do like the AGO a lot though, and the modern addition is very nice, inside and out.

Canada does have plenty of excellent museums that fit into other categories. But art, and particularly art of a certain era is unfortunately not one of them.

Fair.

Though, it should be said, the Thomsons have provided a lot of art to AGO and have a lot more that they are open to providing, but AGO simply lacks the space.

The latest infill expansion will ease the crunch a bit, but one of the real challenges has been that AGO is on a compressed site and that every time it raises money for a big reno/expansion, its an attempt to retain most of the existing building(s), as a cost-saving exercise.

Much as tearing down the Gehry work would be frowned on, understandably, I think the AGO probably needs a new temporary home (if not a permanent one) so the current site can be rebuilt almost completely.

Alternatively, they need to split off the contemporary collection into its own site or similar. To display what they have they need 50% more space, to acquire more, well, keep increasing that.

AGO is a bit over ~300,000ft2

For comparison, MOMA is ~630,000ft2

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I haven't been there in a long time, but I recall them having a rather good collection of European Art. A few Rembrandts, as I recall, too. True, the layout of the place is very suboptimal.

https://www.mbam.qc.ca/workspace/uploads/files/mmfa-museum-map-12-01-26.pdf

This map is interesting. Indeed, it does say the Michal and Renata Hornstein section is closed off, and that's the one with the European art. The sign on the door said it was re-opening the 26th. So I'm 3 days early.

The Claire and Marc Bourgie section also sounds like it has some European art, and I was trying to figure out how to get over to that building but gave up. I actually even went outside and tried to go through the front door (on Sherbrooke Street), but the door was locked so I just said "Screw it, I'm done."

Completely bizarre museum. If they need additional space after the original building got too small they should just have re-purposed the old building for something else, and then built an all-new building somewhere else. The way they've hobbled together a bunch of disparate buildings is a disaster.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

1. Airport. Then there's the car rentals. Ugh. Usually when you go to an airport, the rental cars are in a garage across from the main building, and you cross the arrivals road and the rental cars are right across from that in the garage. Or something like that. Easy-peasy. Not so Montreal. First of all, the signage telling you where to go for car rentals was terrible, they didn't even really tell you at all (just a logo on some signs here and there), and even after I asked someone where to go it still wasn't clear. It took me literally 15 minutes to figure out how to get to the rental cars area. What you have to do is get on this shuttle bus at the side of the terminal that takes you to a garage where the rental cars are, as opposed to the garage right across from the terminal.

Car rental services were relocated to the P4 parking garage in late 2025 to facilitate the permanent closure and demolition of the previous multi-level parking structure, that was right in front of the terminal.

This move is part of a major redevelopment plan to triple the capacity of terminal drop-off/pick-up zones, improve traffic flow and build the REM (metro train) station.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

This map is interesting. Indeed, it does say the Michal and Renata Hornstein section is closed off, and that's the one with the European art. The sign on the door said it was re-opening the 26th. So I'm 3 days early.

The Claire and Marc Bourgie section also sounds like it has some European art, and I was trying to figure out how to get over to that building but gave up. I actually even went outside and tried to go through the front door (on Sherbrooke Street), but the door was locked so I just said "Screw it, I'm done."

Completely bizarre museum. If they need additional space after the original building got too small they should just have re-purposed the old building for something else, and then built an all-new building somewhere else. The way they've hobbled together a bunch of disparate buildings is a disaster.

It might have to do with the way Montreal got in the habit of building subterranean infrastructure for the past sixty five years. The Bourgie building also has a musical vocation. The old church was transformed into a concert hall for soloists and chamber orchestras. The collections are set back in the addition.

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by Crawford

The AGO is not impressive relative to Toronto's importance. The ROM is mostly a natural history museum.

We all have our subjective biases, but I think it would be hard to argue that there wasn't some divergence between American and Canadian cities re. industrial age titans and civic art collections.

I agree that, for Toronto's size and relative global importance, its museums are lacklustre and substandard*. But that is just my impression. I don't pretend to be an expert on the comparative quality of the world's museums. I would posit that probably few people visit Toronto for its museums, which is a pity.

*I recently read a comment (where, I don't remember) that kind of pithily describes Toronto's place or ranking, if you will: Something to the effect of, "Toronto is not #1 in the world at any one thing in particular, but it is in the top-10 at a great number of things."

Anyway, this thread is about Montreal. Let us not clog it with Toronto talk.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Leaving early tomorrow afternoon. Sorry, but I didn't get a chance to go to any bagel places.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Leaving early tomorrow afternoon. Sorry, but I didn't get a chance to go to any bagel places.

If you stop by a grocery store you may be able to get a bag of St. Viateur bagels still! While best fresh they do freeze well.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by niwell

If you stop by a grocery store you may be able to get a bag of St. Viateur bagels still! While best fresh they do freeze well.

I have a couple hours to kill before I need to get to the airport. Maybe I'll try that. Leaving my hotel right now, it was a great trip!

[MolsonExport]

Metro often sells St. Viateur (my favourite authentic Mtl bagel: boiled in honey water then heaped with sesame seeds then baked in wood-burning oven). When they are fresh out of the oven, with some cream cheese: heaven.

[James Bond Agent 007]

I went to an IGA near the airport and looked around. The bread-type items were scattered all over and I couldn't find where any bagels were at all, and I had to get going. So I didn't get anything.

I don't think I had any room in my suitcases anyway, they're pretty stuffed with stuff. And I wouldn't want to carry them around separately either. So, still no bagels.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

I went to an IGA near the airport and looked around. The bread-type items were scattered all over and I couldn't find where any bagels were at all, and I had to get going. So I didn't get anything.

I don't think I had any room in my suitcases anyway, they're pretty stuffed with stuff. And I wouldn't want to carry them around separately either. So, still no bagels.

You can get St Viateur bagels delivered anywhere in NA, if you wish…

https://stviateurbagel.com/

I’m a Fairmount bagel fan myself, but they don’t seem to have a delivery system. Not sure…

[Wigs]

James Bond, when you get home and have a few days to "digest" your Montreal trip, please post more thoughts.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by Wigs

James Bond, when you get home and have a few days to "digest" your Montreal trip, please post more thoughts.

Don't have too many more. Some random stuff:

-- While I certainly understand what causes them (weather/climate), Montreal was the most pothole-ridden city I think I've ever driven through. Winnipeg is even colder than Montreal but I don't recall that many potholes there. I also noticed in Winnipeg that even many of the residential streets are paved in concrete, which is a good idea since concrete pavement doesn't get as many potholes. Maybe Montreal should do the same.
-- Left turns downtown. Boy this was REALLY annoying. A whole ton of streets downtown that seem they would be perfectly OK to make a left turn into, have left turns forbidden. Sometimes you have to drive, like, 5 blocks just to be able to make a left turn. Ridiculous!
-- The concourses in the airport weren't as bad as the terminal. Still, it has to be the worst airport I've been through.

Don't know if I have any other thoughts. Maybe something will pop into my head later.

I went there mostly just for a vacation and not as a scouting-Canadian-cities-to-move-to trip, but damn, it is now tempting. Before the trip I'd heard so much good things about it that I was wondering if I might end the trip thinking that way, and indeed I have.

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Don't have too many more. Some random stuff:

-- While I certainly understand what causes them (weather/climate), Montreal was the most pothole-ridden city I think I've ever driven through. Winnipeg is even colder than Montreal but I don't recall that many potholes there. I also noticed in Winnipeg that even many of the residential streets are paved in concrete, which is a good idea since concrete pavement doesn't get as many potholes. Maybe Montreal should do the same.
-- Left turns downtown. Boy this was REALLY annoying. A whole ton of streets downtown that seem they would be perfectly OK to make a left turn into, have left turns forbidden. Sometimes you have to drive, like, 5 blocks just to be able to make a left turn. Ridiculous!
-- The concourses in the airport weren't as bad as the terminal. Still, it has to be the worst airport I've been through.

Don't know if I have any other thoughts. Maybe something will pop into my head later.

I went there mostly just for a vacation and not as a scouting-Canadian-cities-to-move-to trip, but damn, it is now tempting. Before the trip I'd heard so much good things about it that I was wondering if I might end the trip thinking that way, and indeed I have.

If you do make the move, you’ll fit in, adding another complainer to the lot, lol.

The Left turns are supposed to reduce traffic, emissions, and all the rest of it. Of course it manages perfectly to do the exact opposite while infuriating drivers. I can only imagine what tourists think about it. Throw in thousands of orange cones and detour signs and if you’re not convinced transit makes more sense in this city, you need to spend more time in it. Laffs

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

I went there mostly just for a vacation and not as a scouting-Canadian-cities-to-move-to trip, but damn, it is now tempting.

It's odd because most of your comments have been rather negative I thought.