Utterly random Montreal brain droppings

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Docere

In a way, the "zeitgeist" of Montreal is more Berlin than Paris.

excellent way of putting it

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Are there a lot of French nationals in Montreal? I mean, relative to other big North American metros? I assume there would be relatively more, but not some big community.

I was referring to people of French ancestry, who must make up half of the population in Montréal at least. No reason why your average Québécois would look very different from an Italian. France (Gaul) was colonized by the Romans 2000 years ago. To an unsuspicious visitor, they must look very close.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Docere

In a way, the "zeitgeist" of Montreal is more Berlin than Paris.

Do the Montréalais patiently wait for the green light for pedestrians even when there is no car around, or do they cross whenever it's possible? Also, do they jaywalk?

If Montréal is like Berlin, then Toronto is like Moscow. Let's get real. 'Recht und Ordnung' is not the defining attribute of Québécois culture.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Forgot this one ...

4. People. The people here look a lot like New Yorkers. There's a lot Italian-looking, or general southern Europe/Mediterranean-looking people here, with a healthy admixture of Middle Eastern-looking people, a decent amount of Asians and what I presume are Hatians and/or Africans of some sort. And an OK amount of more northerly European-looking people. If I didn't know better I'd swear I was in Manhattan's Upper West Side, or something. The only difference from New York is that there aren't many Indians/Pakistanis (which is also a big difference from other Canadian cities I've been to). I saw a few of them, but not too many.

I need to reiterate this one.

Just got back from a Montreal Symphony concert. At the concert was a large group of teenagers, I presume they were music students. Must have been a hundred of them. And they looked almost exactly like what I would expect a magnet school or some other school catering to upper-middle class students in Manhattan would look like - again, sans so many Asians (though there were still some of those). If they weren't speaking French I'd swear I was in the Upper West Side or something.

I always found it interesting when I visited different parts of the US when I lived in various places how different people looked from one place to another. When I lived in Seattle, I'd be at the airport and people looked a certain way. Then I'd fly to Newark, get off at the airport, and the people there looked entirely different. Same as when I lived in Charlotte and, now, KC. The people in Montreal definitely have much more of a Northeastern US look.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Do the Montréalais patiently wait for the green light for pedestrians even when there is no car around, or do they cross whenever it's possible? Also, do they jaywalk?

Funny you should ask, because I've been paying attention to this very thing. They seem to be "in-between" in their behavior. They're not as aggressive jaywalkers as, say, NYC, but they're also not as obedient as I noticed in Calgary (KC seems to be pretty obedient as well).

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I was referring to people of French ancestry, who must make up half of the population in Montréal at least. No reason why your average Québécois would look very different from an Italian. France (Gaul) was colonized by the Romans 2000 years ago. To an unsuspicious visitor, they must look very close.

Sorry, but I have to offer pushback here:

The Roman conquest of Gaul was not a colonial effort. It was an Empire conquering a neighboring cultural region. Notwithstanding the post-conquest cultural change, the Gaulish locals largely persisted genetically unchanged and distinct from the Romans-proper of the Italian peninsula. Furthermore, there’s more genetic introgression from Germanic Europe, given the multiple settler waves after Roman collapse: Franks, Burgundians, Visigoths, etc.

Hence why French people today have on average different features than Italians (even if there is overlap).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Funny you should ask, because I've been paying attention to this very thing. They seem to be "in-between" in their behavior. They're not as aggressive jaywalkers as, say, NYC, but they're also not as obedient as I noticed in Calgary (KC seems to be pretty obedient as well).

Exactly, so they are not "Berlin". A Berliner would never cross if the light is not green for pedestrians, even if there are no cars around. And it's frowned upon to do it.

Also, do women in Montréal love to cut their hair short like men and look unfeminine?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Sorry, but I have to offer pushback here:

The Roman conquest of Gaul was not a colonial effort. It was an Empire conquering a neighboring cultural region. Notwithstanding the post-conquest cultural change, the Gaulish locals largely persisted genetically unchanged and distinct from the Romans-proper of the Italian peninsula. Furthermore, there’s more genetic introgression from Germanic Europe, given the multiple settler waves after Roman collapse: Franks, Burgundians, Visigoths, etc.

Hence why French people today have on average different features than Italians (even if there is overlap).

Many Italians settled in Gaul during the Roman Empire. Many French and Italian look undistinguishable. A lot of those "Italian looking" people he saw are probably Québécois.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Also, do women in Montréal love to cut their hair short like men and look unfeminine?

Definitely not.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

Definitely not.

So again, not Berlin.

I would also add the culinary culture. In Berlin there is no real culinary culture to talk of. People are not that interested in food. In Québec there is of course more of the interest in good food that is a French influence.

The movie culture also. The Québécois more into movie theaters like the French, whereas the Germans not so much. I can't recall seeing a single movie theater in Berlin now that I think of it.

Oh, and of course the culture of humor shows, which definitely sets Montréal closer to Paris than to Berlin. Berliners (and Germans in general) are not known for being funny and liking to crack a joke. The Québécois have more of the unserious, 'ne pas se prendre au sérieux' attitude of the French.

[MolsonExport]

Someone is pretending very hard that they are an expert on Montreal.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Someone is pretending very hard that they are an expert on Montreal.

That same someone has become quite the pest, holding himself out as the expert on everything and posting half of the total responses in some threads.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Someone is pretending very hard that they are an expert on Montreal.

LOL yup.

That being said I don't find Mtl and Berlin to be similar in most *tangible* ways. However, there are indeed similarities when it comes to Vibes. Which is kinda meaningless but at the same time can be an important metric.

This does extend to a reminiscence of an era when things were more economically deprived yet dirt cheap in a way that let cultural output flourish. Which isn't to say it's no longer there, but the creep of global wealth into "sameness" doesn't spare anywhere these days!


Back on topic, I'd personally skip Swartz's despite it being an institution, though definitely walk down that strip. Long lines and I found it a bit overrated (albeit still very good) last time I had it. Snowdon Deli was slightly better quality IMO, no lines, in an interesting area you'd probably not go to otherwise, and still accessible via Metro. As an aside I maybe shouldn't have been surprised, but interesting that I was greeted/served en anglais seulement.

[James Bond Agent 007]

9. The Montreal Art Museum was a gargantuan disappointment. It consists of several building hobbled together with a couple of tunnels, and there are stairs and escalators you have to go up and down to get to the different buildings, and once you start going through all this it's like a maze and becomes hard to tell where you even are, or where you've been, and which way you need to go. A few times I ended up going in circles without even realizing it until I got to a point where I was like, "Oh, I was just here." If that wasn't enough, the art is almost entirely contemporary and Canadian/Indigenous art, with just a smattering of ancient Egyptian and Greek art and pottery. I think there was a small gallery of Asian art as well. There was no European art at all.

I suppose if that's what the museum decided to do, then it is what it is, but it seems really disappointing that a major city like Montreal has such a limited art museum. If I lived here I'm not sure I'd ever bother visiting it again.

[shappy]

^ it is a bit of a maze, but you must have missed a wing. They have a pretty extensive collection of European art. It's across the street from the main building.

[MolsonExport]

I haven't been there in a long time, but I recall them having a rather good collection of European Art. A few Rembrandts, as I recall, too. True, the layout of the place is very suboptimal.

https://www.mbam.qc.ca/workspace/uploads/files/mmfa-museum-map-12-01-26.pdf

[montréaliste]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

9. The Montreal Art Museum was a gargantuan disappointment. It consists of several building hobbled together with a couple of tunnels, and there are stairs and escalators you have to go up and down to get to the different buildings, and once you start going through all this it's like a maze and becomes hard to tell where you even are, or where you've been, and which way you need to go. A few times I ended up going in circles without even realizing it until I got to a point where I was like, "Oh, I was just here." If that wasn't enough, the art is almost entirely contemporary and Canadian/Indigenous art, with just a smattering of ancient Egyptian and Greek art and pottery. I think there was a small gallery of Asian art as well. There was no European art at all.

I suppose if that's what the museum decided to do, then it is what it is, but it seems really disappointing that a major city like Montreal has such a limited art museum. If I lived here I'm not sure I'd ever bother visiting it again.

It's not the Louvre but as Molson Export and shappy have stated; there is a collection of European Art across the street in what was the original pavilion.
There was a major heist in 1972 when a bunch of master paintings were stolen via one of the skylights, never to be found, nor thieves apprehended...

The American and Erskine Church across the rue du Musée was redesigned to become one of the 3 or 4 pavilions that make up the museum. It was designed by an old high school buddy of mine: Matthieu Geoffrion. I remember him as a soft spoken guy who wore braces for at least a couple of years at school, lol.

https://provencherroy.ca/en/team/matthieu-geoffrion

This private collection of artworks was bequeathed and the main pavilion was renamed in honour of the donors a number of years ago:

https://www.codart.nl/museums/an-histori...ion-at-the-montreal-museum-of-fine-arts/

[edale]

I was also really disappointed by the Montreal Art Museum when I visited. Its collection and physical space is considerably worse than Cincinnati's art museum, which is great but definitely not a top 15 art museum in the US. You'd think a city as old and storied as Montreal would have a top notch art museum.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007

9. The Montreal Art Museum was a gargantuan disappointment. It consists of several building hobbled together with a couple of tunnels, and there are stairs and escalators you have to go up and down to get to the different buildings, and once you start going through all this it's like a maze and becomes hard to tell where you even are, or where you've been, and which way you need to go. A few times I ended up going in circles without even realizing it until I got to a point where I was like, "Oh, I was just here." If that wasn't enough, the art is almost entirely contemporary and Canadian/Indigenous art, with just a smattering of ancient Egyptian and Greek art and pottery. I think there was a small gallery of Asian art as well. There was no European art at all.

I suppose if that's what the museum decided to do, then it is what it is, but it seems really disappointing that a major city like Montreal has such a limited art museum. If I lived here I'm not sure I'd ever bother visiting it again.

If you're looking for antiquities or European art pre-WW2 of any kind, Canadian art galleries will disappoint you.

Most of that art was either looted by colonial powers or bought for a song by wealthy American industrialists in the late 19th or early 20th centuries. That's why the best art galleries are in the capitals of former European imperial powers or the cities of the US Northeast and Midwest.

[Crawford]

Canada doesn't do art museums, really. In the U.S. every podunk rust belt metro has an impressive art museum. Toledo has a shockingly good museum. Cleveland has a top-tier, museum among the best in the world. In Canada, even Toronto's museum is pretty meh.

I'd imagine Canada didn't have the early 20th century industrial titan types, or if they did, they were doing other civic stuff, or just spending it on women or something. Or maybe the WASP heritage meant no frivolous stuff.