Ottawa intercity bus terminal relocation

[Ottawaresident]

Sigh, who created these "Transit Hubs"

[Truenorth00]

If/when VIA HFR happens, I hope VIA adds bus bays for intercity buses and kill the useless terminal of today.

[J.OT13]

I think it's time to revisit this idea. Though the Catherine location is closer to downtown, it's actually less convenient than the VIA Rail station, or it will be if/when Confederation opens.

[Ottawaresident]

Catherine Street is too inaccessible for Transit users. If you were to ask me about relocating the train and bus stations, even LeBreton Flats is a better place. At least that place is walkable and has transit access. And the developments is faltering. Not that Ottawa would ever do it in 50 to a billion years.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I think it's time to revisit this idea. Though the Catherine location is closer to downtown, it's actually less convenient than the VIA Rail station, or it will be if/when Confederation opens.

This Winter has been horrendous for bus passengers. I drive into downtown every day on Kent street and I see people struggling to pull their bags through the snow every morning. It looks like some kind of nightmare where people are fleeing a war-torn country. Build some bus bays and VIA and call it a day. It would be such an easy fix and might be able to generate some income/ridership for VIA at the same time.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

This Winter has been horrendous for VIA passengers. I drive into downtown every day on Kent street and I see people struggling to pull their bags through the snow every morning. It looks like some kind of nightmare where people are fleeing a war-torn country. Build some bus bays and VIA and call it a day. It would be such an easy fix and might be able to generate some income/ridership for VIA at the same time.

this...

I am in the Kent/Gladstone area all the time and watching people schlep suitcases through the snow is just silly.

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

If/when VIA HFR happens, I hope VIA adds bus bays for intercity buses and kill the useless terminal of today.

If HSR happens, perhaps the VIA station could be moved to beside, and connect with, the Hurdman transit station; and the intercity bus facilities could be integrated at the same time. Such a move would form a real transportation hub and release the land VIA is using on Tremblay. It doesn't look as if VIA uses the array of tracks behind the Tremblay building.

Hey, maybe it would even be possible to convert the SE Transitway to be a frequent LRT line between Hurdman and the airport.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

If/when VIA HFR happens, I hope VIA adds bus bays for intercity buses and kill the useless terminal of today.

If HFR happens, what intercity bus routes do you expect will continue to operate? It would likely kill the routes to Toronto and Montreal and all we would be left with is service to Sudbury, Syracuse and Cornwall (current destinations not easy to get to by train).

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

This Winter has been horrendous for VIA passengers. I drive into downtown every day on Kent street and I see people struggling to pull their bags through the snow every morning. It looks like some kind of nightmare where people are fleeing a war-torn country. Build some bus bays and VIA and call it a day. It would be such an easy fix and might be able to generate some income/ridership for VIA at the same time.

Do you mean Greyhound passengers? Kent St is pretty far from the train station, so i wouldn't assume they had been taking the train.

[Ottawaresident]

HM, maybe

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

If HSR happens, perhaps the VIA station could be moved to beside, and connect with, the Hurdman transit station; and the intercity bus facilities could be integrated at the same time. Such a move would form a real transportation hub and release the land VIA is using on Tremblay. It doesn't look as if VIA uses the array of tracks behind the Tremblay building.

Hey, maybe it would even be possible to convert the SE Transitway to be a frequent LRT line between Hurdman and the airport.

I looked at maps and there isn't room to relocate the train station to Hurdman and to make it all work would also require the LRT and bus terminals to be moved east and closer to the railway.

One of the challenges is that there is a curve in the tracks near Hurdman, which would be unsuitable. That pushes the station south into a residential area, which will be unacceptable.

[J.OT13]

Unless the VIA staiton is moved downtown, it shouldn't be moved at all. Having it at Hurdman would result in a net zero improvement.

[Acajack]

My sense is that enough has been invested in the VIA station and attached O-Train station on Tremblay Road, for all of that to remain there for the foreseeable future.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

If HFR happens, what intercity bus routes do you expect will continue to operate? It would likely kill the routes to Toronto and Montreal and all we would be left with is service to Sudbury, Syracuse and Cornwall (current destinations not easy to get to by train).

Those routes will need a place to park. Better they are co-located with VIA.

I also see new routes emerging. Not just from the long-haul intercity folks. But why not hourly CRT service to match hourly VIA trains with HFR? Or feeder bus service from VIA itself. Similar to AMTRAK Thruway buses in the US? HFR is a paradigm shift with implication beyond the buses to Toronto and Montreal. I also, expect those buses to Sudbury, Syracuse and Cornwall to increase their frequencies as patterns change. I would expect places like Cornwall to match VIA's HFR schedule with smaller vehicles. And I would expect consolidation and code-sharing. For example, some buses to the US shifted to Montreal. And some buses to both the US and to the north and west of Ontario shifted to Ottawa. HFR will change a lot of the network and how we think of long-haul travel.

The current set up is just moronic though. That old, grimy bus terminal is not accessible by rapid transit. It's pushing the definition of "downtown" as a location. And does very poorly for support services like access to cabs and car rentals. Locating with VIA at Tremblay would change all that. Especially under a scenario of a large increase in traffic with VIA itself. With HFR, Tremblay station will become more like a small airport in what support services are offered. You'll be able to rent cars. Cabs will always on-site, etc. We can add luggage storage for day trippers. Transit access will be fantastic with the LRT. And it's very likely that HFR itself could fuel the growth of office space around the station. The bus operators can benefit from all of that, even if they lose some of their long-haul business.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

If HSR happens, perhaps the VIA station could be moved to beside, and connect with, the Hurdman transit station; and the intercity bus facilities could be integrated at the same time. Such a move would form a real transportation hub and release the land VIA is using on Tremblay. It doesn't look as if VIA uses the array of tracks behind the Tremblay building.

1) HSR is not happening anytime soon. And possibly not in our lifetimes. We'll be lucky if HFR gets through unmolested.

2) HFR or HSR, Ottawa will not be a terminus, it will be a through station. As such, the station approaches are very much relevant. And VIA will not be interested in moving the station to facilitate a transit hub, if it negatively impacts the intercity train service.

3) What you propose is a billion dollar endeavour in a country where transit is at best, tolerated, in a city where we still can get sub-10 min bus service to most of the city. There's no way anybody is funding this billion dollar hub. Whatever gets built, it'll be done as cheaply as possible. Far easier and cheaper to build a rail/bus/transit hub at Tremblay than to move the VIA station to Hurdman. It's also questionable cost-benefit ratio when all you're adding is the SE Transitway.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by roger1818

If HFR happens, what intercity bus routes do you expect will continue to operate? It would likely kill the routes to Toronto and Montreal and all we would be left with is service to Sudbury, Syracuse and Cornwall (current destinations not easy to get to by train).



Do you mean Greyhound passengers? Kent St is pretty far from the train station, so i wouldn't assume they had been taking the train.

Sorry, yes, edited

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Those routes will need a place to park. Better they are co-located with VIA.

I agree. The key is getting Greyhound on-board.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I also see new routes emerging. Not just from the long-haul intercity folks. But why not hourly CRT service to match hourly VIA trains with HFR?

What do you mean by "hourly CRT service"?

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Or feeder bus service from VIA itself. Similar to AMTRAK Thruway buses in the US? HFR is a paradigm shift with implication beyond the buses to Toronto and Montreal.

Feeder service to where? Most of the small cities nearby will be served by VIA. I don't think Greyhound could make a business case only serving small towns.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I also, expect those buses to Sudbury, Syracuse and Cornwall to increase their frequencies as patterns change. I would expect places like Cornwall to match VIA's HFR schedule with smaller vehicles. And I would expect consolidation and code-sharing. For example, some buses to the US shifted to Montreal. And some buses to both the US and to the north and west of Ontario shifted to Ottawa. HFR will change a lot of the network and how we think of long-haul travel.

That is a lot of expectations! Sudbury, Syracuse and Cornwall all only have 1 bus a day. Do you really think there will be demand for more than that? Is there a business case to even keep that service without subsidy? Greyhound is struggling to make their numbers work as ridership is on the decline.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The current set up is just moronic though. That old, grimy bus terminal is not accessible by rapid transit. It's pushing the definition of "downtown" as a location. And does very poorly for support services like access to cabs and car rentals. Locating with VIA at Tremblay would change all that. Especially under a scenario of a large increase in traffic with VIA itself. With HFR, Tremblay station will become more like a small airport in what support services are offered. You'll be able to rent cars. Cabs will always on-site, etc. We can add luggage storage for day trippers. Transit access will be fantastic with the LRT. And it's very likely that HFR itself could fuel the growth of office space around the station. The bus operators can benefit from all of that, even if they lose some of their long-haul business.

I don't disagree. I just don't know if there is a business case for it. More likely Greyhound will pick up and leave Ottawa. They might keep their service to Syracuse, but that doesn't have a lot of synergy with VIA Rail

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

3) What you propose is a billion dollar endeavour in a country where transit is at best, tolerated, in a city where we still can get sub-10 min bus service to most of the city. There's no way anybody is funding this billion dollar hub. Whatever gets built, it'll be done as cheaply as possible. Far easier and cheaper to build a rail/bus/transit hub at Tremblay than to move the VIA station to Hurdman. It's also questionable cost-benefit ratio when all you're adding is the SE Transitway.

My thoughts exactly. Spending billions of dollars to move the train station a few hundred meters to a location that has negligible benefits to the user doesn't make sense.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I agree. The key is getting Greyhound on-board.

They were onboard when O'Brien proposed it nearly a decade ago when there was no HFR plan. I can't imagine they'd be opposed to it with HFR.

Originally Posted by roger1818

What do you mean by "hourly CRT service"?

Hourly bus from Clarence-Rockland to Tremblay.

Originally Posted by roger1818

Feeder service to where? Most of the small cities nearby will be served by VIA. I don't think Greyhound could make a business case only serving small towns.

Originally Posted by roger1818

That is a lot of expectations! Sudbury, Syracuse and Cornwall all only have 1 bus a day. Do you really think there will be demand for more than that? Is there a business case to even keep that service without subsidy? Greyhound is struggling to make their numbers work as ridership is on the decline.

Originally Posted by roger1818

I don't disagree. I just don't know if there is a business case for it. More likely Greyhound will pick up and leave Ottawa. They might keep their service to Syracuse, but that doesn't have a lot of synergy with VIA Rail

It doesn't necessarily have to be Greyhound. That's my point. Towns themselves could start subsidizing connecting buses. And where the business case exists, VIA itself could launch feeder services. I imagine, for example, more buses to places like Petawawa and North Bay and Cornwall. And they won't necessarily be 45 ft fifty seater coaches. They may just be 35 ft forty seaters running twice or thrice per day. Something like this:

http://www.mcicoach.com/luxury-coach...engerJ3500.htm

Ontario Northland could actually get a real boost from such a setup in Eastern Ontario. I could see them supplanting Greyhound as the dominant bus company in these parts.

Originally Posted by roger1818

My thoughts exactly. Spending billions of dollars to move the train station a few hundred meters to a location that has negligible benefits to the user doesn't make sense.

It's not just the cost. It's the fact that the new location may not actually work for whatever HSR/HFR plan is in the works. Especially if Ottawa is a thru station.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by roger1818

If HFR happens, what intercity bus routes do you expect will continue to operate? It would likely kill the routes to Toronto and Montreal and all we would be left with is service to Sudbury, Syracuse and Cornwall (current destinations not easy to get to by train).

They are very different markets, I would not expect a lot of impact.

[Acajack]

Ottawa has service to Syracuse?????

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

They are very different markets, I would not expect a lot of impact.

For now. But change the connection possibilities and watch the number of connections soar.