CHICAGO | The Elysian | 686 FT / 209 M | 60 FLOORS | COM

[SolarWind]

August 8, 2008

[Brian.]

Here we have a write up about Lagrange and his many projects in the Chicago area. All words and pictures credited to the summer 2008 issue of Ascent. Sorry about the quality, I don't think I have the tools to do a direct scan and I only have my so so camera with me to day. I hope it's worth sharing anyway.

[photoLith]

^^^

Yuk, some of those buildings are pretty ugly

Anyways, this was taken last night

[jjk1103]

Originally Posted by photolitherland

^^^

Yuk, some of those buildings are pretty ugly

Anyways, this was taken last night

...well, if it's ugly ....it's sure big and ugly !!!!

[Rizzo]

If only you all knew what it feels like to work in an architecture office and walk past someone doing a design with oversized cornices, chunky pilasters, and ill proportioned window openings. "Oh that looks really eehhhhhhh..nice...." [me walking away wishing I would have said something].

I'll be honest and say I've never actually walked past someone drawing up a bad design. But I've seen some yuck elements that should have received some criticism before the client saw them.


Coloprecaster, no offense, but I always shake my head at our company box lunch meetings with precast product building manufacturers. They wow us with their best work, which is actually very well done. But we soon discover how the best is not always practical with most of our clients. The meetings always end with a good taste in your mouth (I guess it's the catered food they paid for) but it makes you wonder afterwords if you'll ever achieve that high level of design with the products they offer, and the client can still afford.

[Brian.]

Originally Posted by Hayward

Coloprecaster, no offense, but I always shake my head at our company box lunch meetings with precast product building manufacturers. They wow us with their best work, which is actually very well done. But we soon discover how the best is not always practical with most of our clients. The meetings always end with a good taste in your mouth (I guess it's the catered food they paid for) but it makes you wonder afterwords if you'll ever achieve that high level of design with the products they offer, and the client can still afford.

And yet everyone on this board thinks that using precast is the 'cheap' way of doing a project. We are never the cheapest way to do things when you only are looking at the bottom line dollar. We generally are chosen because we can put up a building faster then any other material. When time is money to a client then we are the best option, period.

It sounds like you have a good understanding of how owners work. They come in with a grand vision of what they want, until...they find out what it really costs to complete a project. Which I may add is also the biggest problem with this forum. Nearly everyone here hasn't a clue about construction costs and yet they can do nothing but complain that the building doesn't have everything they think it should including solid gold toilets.

[CGII]

Precast wouldn't be so poo-pooed here if it weren't abused as a stand-in look alike for higher quality materials like brick or limestone. Architects should embrace a more original and honest style for precast.

[Brian.]

yeah...I guess even when it's shiny glass around here you'll complain that it's wavy or not quite the right reflection. It's an equal offending site.

[honte]

ColoPrecaster, by the way, I appreciated your effort to post the article. Can't say it gave me a higher opinion of LaGrange, but I enjoyed the squint and surprised myself that I could read most of it.

[Pandemonious]

Taken Yesterday:


Not a fan of the building's design, but it is taking its place in the skyline... I will say that the precast doesn't look that bad at street level when I walked past it a few days ago. Obviously it doesn't look like real stone, but looks ok overall I guess.

[CGII]

Originally Posted by ColoPrecaster

yeah...I guess even when it's shiny glass around here you'll complain that it's wavy or not quite the right reflection. It's an equal offending site.

How did you interpret from my statement that I want all of my buildings to be glass? That's not true at all. I just don't like it when architects pretend the materials of their buildings are something they aren't. For example, Louis Kahn knew how to build a building with precast.

[Nowhereman1280]

By the way, that article reminded me. Has anyone seen what they are doing to that fordham tower, I think its the pinnacle? The precast on that one must be really shitty (not saying all precast is shitty, just that they must have bought a bad batch) because that is only a 10 year old building and they are already having to go and grind out thousands of cracks and repair them. The building really looks like shit now seeing as how the filler they are using has a slightly different dye than the original precast and now the building has finger cracks all over it...

Anyone care to take pictures of this massive fail of a building become even uglier?

[jet cm]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

By the way, that article reminded me. Has anyone seen what they are doing to that fordham tower, I think its the pinnacle? The precast on that one must be really shitty (not saying all precast is shitty, just that they must have bought a bad batch) because that is only a 10 year old building and they are already having to go and grind out thousands of cracks and repair them. The building really looks like shit now seeing as how the filler they are using has a slightly different dye than the original precast and now the building has finger cracks all over it...

Anyone care to take pictures of this massive fail of a building become even uglier?

You're referring to the Fordham Tower at 25 E. Superior and it's the CIP that's having trouble. That building has precast from L1-L4 only (except the garage is clad from L1-L11).

[Brian.]

Originally Posted by honte

ColoPrecaster, by the way, I appreciated your effort to post the article. Can't say it gave me a higher opinion of LaGrange, but I enjoyed the squint and surprised myself that I could read most of it.

I had originally scanned it into a pdf but the site I hosted it on reduced the quality some how that it wasn't worth linking it here. I win some I lose some.

Originally Posted by CGII

How did you interpret from my statement that I want all of my buildings to be glass? That's not true at all. I just don't like it when architects pretend the materials of their buildings are something they aren't. For example, Louis Kahn knew how to build a building with precast.

I wasn't trying to say you as in YOU. I am sorry that it looked that way.

It was just a general statement about the vocal opponents that frequent this site. All too often I see well educated people with very articulate arguments make themselves look like an ass because they haven’t a clue about the real world. I’d like them to get there head out of that textbook and take the time to understand the real world environment that we live in.

[Alliance]

Originally Posted by ColoPrecaster

Here we have a write up about Lagrange and his many projects in the Chicago area. All words and pictures credited to the summer 2008 issue of Ascent. Sorry about the quality, I don't think I have the tools to do a direct scan and I only have my so so camera with me to day. I hope it's worth sharing anyway.

Might be worth burning. "Yesterday's Elegance"... Those authors must have been born yesterday.

Originally Posted by ColoPrecaster

It was just a general statement about the vocal opponents that frequent this site. All too often I see well educated people with very articulate arguments make themselves look like an ass because they haven’t a clue about the real world. I’d like them to get there head out of that textbook and take the time to understand the real world environment that we live in.

The world is crappy. We're trying to make it better. Just accepting and promoting horrible status quo's is a quick way to nowhere, which is exactly where Elysian is taking us...A "real world" of low standards.

Perhaps you should learn some academics and aesthetics too, and start seeing the higher messages of architecture, rather than just what they're made of?

[Brian.]

Originally Posted by Alliance

The world is crappy. We're trying to make it better. Just accepting and promoting horrible status quo's is a quick way to nowhere, which is exactly where Elysian is taking us...A "real world" of low standards.

Perhaps you should learn some academics and aesthetics too, and start seeing the higher messages of architecture, rather than just what they're made of?

We keep saying it but you refuse to accept any of it. I’ll actually make a defense of architects now which I rarely do.

Nearly every single design in the history of mankind has a particular problem, MONEY. Why are you so oblivious that if this building could have been done in stone it would have? Every architect will get everything out of the design that the money will allow. Scaling back on elements is a standard practice on most every project. The world can’t stop turning because a fifty million dollar project is one million over budget. A little cut here a little cut there and yes you get a building that wasn’t the first impression of the owner or the architect. I see that in your world you’d rather not have the project started until it is perfection. Well…if that were the case then you wouldn’t have anything to complain about because nothing would ever get out of the ground.

[Alliance]

Originally Posted by ColoPrecaster

We keep saying it but you refuse to accept any of it. I’ll actually make a defense of architects now which I rarely do.

Well, I dont complain about the quality of the materials you make. Its nto a big deal to understand all sides of this scenario. Its sad you have to go out on a limb to do so. You've demonstrated that you don't even understand my personal opinon, but are instead just railing against what you've generalized as an opinon.

Let me help.

I dont care if precast is used in building. I care if precase is used to imitate other elements. There are 1000s of ways LaGrange could have chosen to clad this building. As an ARCHTIECT, he should have chosen a way that didn't violate the cladding materials. Its not an issue of "cutting corners" its an issue of poor concept and design.

If LaGrange was actually a decent architect, and still into all this neo-Victorian ripoff crap, he'd figure out a way to use massings inspired by such architecture, but clad them in a modern and functional way. Precast might even be a vital part of that cladding, but precast is precast and shouldn't be used like anything else. I don't paint prick as wood and clad a building with it. The way LaGrange clads his buildings is like people dressing their dogs. Its pretty damn disgusting. Elysian is like a fake Rolex or Gucchi sunglasses. Its a hollow image and a desperate attempt to gain credibility. LaGrange is going to pander his buildings sacrifice his integrity as an architect to sell his crap to developers instead of telling developers what they need to do. This isn't a case of "cutting corners."

Originally Posted by Northwest

Come on now. Is it really that bad? There are so many worse structures to pick on. Elysian is tall and slender, has no ugly parking podium, and obviously appeals to its upper class buyers. I would hardly call that a disaster.

It has a good massing.

[Chicagoguy]

Does anyone know when the retail along Rush Street might open in the Elysian? I assume it will be before the building is complete?

[Brian.]

Originally Posted by Alliance

As an ARCHTIECT, he should have chosen a way that didn't violate the cladding materials. Its not an issue of "cutting corners" its an issue of poor concept and design.

That kind of talk just makes me laugh. I also hate to be violated.

Using precast that looks like limestone instead of real limestone is cutting corners.

Your right in that I am a detail oriented person. I look the execution of a project more then concepts. I can live with a building I hate and tell myself at least it was well built. I won’t loose any sleep over bad architecture. Maybe it’s just that I have been in it for so long that I am jaded with real life and dreaming of the right design just isn’t going to happen for me anymore.

[the urban politician]

^ One could argue that using limestone to clad a building itself is cutting corners. After all, those old limestone towers are actually held up by steel & concrete, not by the limestone facades which are often made to appear load-bearing. If you want real quality then look at the old castles of Europe or the Great Pyramids of Egypt, which are about as honest as one can be with the use of stone materials.

So what's the big deal? People have been doing this throughout history. Somehow I feel that future generations will still value buildings like this for what it is, and how it fits into the Chicago of 2008 with all of its peculiarities