The future of Hamilton's public transit

[mishap]

Originally Posted by matt602

Yet the HSR still isn't putting the 40ft hybrid buses onto the correct routes. I still commonly see them on inappropriate routes like 4 Bayfront and a slew of weird mountain routes (Upper Sherman and Upper Gage often). They belong on 2 Barton. All of them.

The policy was to assign the 40' hybrids to either Barton or King, because of all the stop-and-go travel. For some reason, they haven't been following that so well lately. Mind you, some routes (like Delaware) are also fairly well-suited for hybrids. Bayfront, not so much, though there are a lot of train tracks to cross, which means lots of stops.

[raisethehammer]

it's politics. they've got great ridership on King/Barton. they're trying to lure the mountain car-addicts.

[miketoronto]

I gotta ask this question. Is there really that much of a difference between lower Hamilton residents, and Mountain residents?????

I have ridden around Hamilton Mountain and it has some pretty low class looking areas, and also some very nice looking areas. The lower city is the same. Some low class areas, and some down right amazing areas.

So when it comes down to it, I doubt that the Mountain residents are that much more classy or rich, and therefore do not need special buses to lure them

[markbarbera]

As far as low rideship on the mountain goes, IMO it is simply the result of not offering the mountain residents proper transit options. Service is far too infrequent to be a viable alternative to driving anywhere, and it is designed primarily to transport mountain residents to downtown. More frequency of service will draw more ridership. In addition, east-west routes need to be improved and added. There is virtually no east-west service south of Mohawk.

It has little to do with mountain residents being addicted to cars, they really have no choice but to drive, particularly on evenings and weekends. If the King bus ran once an hour on a Sunday evening, I am sure rideship levels would drop to the same levels as those on the mountain. Ridership on the mountain will improve once service improves. It really is as simple as that.

[JoeyColeman]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

working on a coalition to get a bus pass to Mohawk College students, and if that was the case, I'm sure you'd see the LRT focus on Mohawk for a stop or two.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=24185534313

You don't need much work for a Mohawk UPass - the city is already offering the same deal given to Mac students. The main difference is the number of PT students at Mohawk who do not want a UPass.

[JoeyColeman]

Originally Posted by Berklon

The vast majority of people who take Eastbound GO (from any of the stations) take it to Union Station. The ones who work in Mississauga or Oakville could still be driving there, but you have to remember that a GO pass that goes to Clarkson or Oakville station is cheaper than one that goes to Union - so they're still saving money. It's even cheaper if they take the train out of Aldershot or Burlington instead of Hamilton.

With current gas prices, GO is definitely cheaper in most cases than it is to drive.

I'll take this one further - there is a reason that GO operates a bus out of Hamilton at 5:00am in the morning to Square One and points beyond. It isn't university students taking that bus.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

But not everyone works in the CBD. There are a ton of people taking GO from Hamilton to places like Square One, and other suburban locations where parking is free.

Most people are not giving up their cars. So it just seems weird they would pay over 300 bucks to use transit with a car sitting in the driveway. Can't save that much money.

Again I am glad people are doing it. But it still amazes me people would spend that much
I guess it is just the Greater Toronto's areas weird transit culture. I even find it interesting people are park and riding from suburban park and rides to other suburban destinations.

I was in Hamilton last night. Rode the free Waterfront shuttle. Very nice ride.

What do you guys think of my COMMUTER XPRESS IDEA for Hamilton. Click on the link to see the map. Buses would only stop where the bus stop logos are. This would be a commuter service, not a local service. So that is why you will see a lot of park and ride lots.
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&...,0.354309&z=12

There are some people on the morning train I ride who get off in Burlington and Oakville stops. As mentioned it's cheaper, and when you do the math I'm pretty sure the cost is not more for GO, especially when you calculate the small tax benefit (15%) of monthly/weekly rides.

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by Berklon

I take the GO everyday and I definitely take advantage of the HSR add-on price. $15 a month for HSR is a fantastic deal - especially considering without it I'd have to pay $79/month for an HSR pass + the $290/month GO train pass. $369/month is a lot of money, so paying $315 (while a considerable chunk of change) is much better.

The tax credits really help, at 15% - it winds up essentially refunding me 2 months worth of GO train passes. Every little bit helps.

As for increased ridership on the GO due to fuel prices, I see that first-hand.

Most GO commuters have a ritual where you sit on the same car when taking the train - so it's easy to see the increase in seats taken. In the morning out of Hunter street the upper level of the car I sit on has had roughly between 5-7 of the same people sitting on it by the time the train leaves the station. In the last few months that number has doubled when the train leaves.

Over the last few years the train is essentially "standing-only" when it allows passengers on in Oakville. The last few months it's been standing-only when people from Appleby board the train (2 stops before Oakville). Summers always see a reduction of commuters due to vacation time being taken, but the train is still full after Appleby passengers board. A few more months of rising fuel prices will probably see a full train when Burlington passengers board.

Might it be possible in the future to have an express train from Hamilton in the morning that only stops in Hamilton and Burlington and skips Oakville? Shaving a few more minutes off the commute time might make it even more enticing as an option.

[markbarbera]

Absolutely! GO is setting up its Niagara bus service so it runs as a train meet at Burlington station. The Stoney Creek bus is the first step in establishing Niagara GO service. As the service extends into Niagara it will be this route that extends further east to Grimsby and Niagara.

I think it would be brilliant to time the rush hour service to arrive in tandem to the am Hamilton GO train's arrival times in Burlington (currently 6:35, 6:55, 7:25). The Niagara/Stoney Creek passengers can join the train there and it can run express from Burlington to Toronto. Future bus service from Kitchener and Guelph could also be timed to meet these trains. A train running non-stop between Toronto Union and Burlington can make the trip in about 30 mins. Come the afternoon rush, the Kitchener and Niagara buses can be scheduled to leave a few minutes after the Hamilton-bound trains, which can run express from Union to Burlington, then continue on to Aldershot and Hamilton.

[JoeyColeman]

A lot depends on where the fourth train out of Hamilton fits into the schedule and how that effects passenger loads overall. The 0704 is extremely busy right now. If it remains the last train out of Hamilton, they will have to make it an express due to capacity issues.

I love the days when it's packed and some dumbass won't clear the doors at Oakville. I understand why they try to get on board.

If there is a 0724 - 0734 train, this may alleviate a lot of the overcrowding issue on the 0704.

The irony is that if GO cuts stops to deal with overcrowding, it may actually make the overcrowding worse. The faster the train gets to Toronto, the more attractive it becomes for Hamilton, Waterdown, and West Burlington commuters.

I'd hate to be a transit planner for GO these days - so many demands with limited resources, both in terms of money and tracktime.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by Berklon

I take the GO everyday and I definitely take advantage of the HSR add-on price. $15 a month for HSR is a fantastic deal - especially considering without it I'd have to pay $79/month for an HSR pass + the $290/month GO train pass. $369/month is a lot of money, so paying $315 (while a considerable chunk of change) is much better.

Actually, it's $305/month.

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by JoeyColeman

A lot depends on where the fourth train out of Hamilton fits into the schedule and how that effects passenger loads overall. The 0704 is extremely busy right now. If it remains the last train out of Hamilton, they will have to make it an express due to capacity issues.

I love the days when it's packed and some dumbass won't clear the doors at Oakville. I understand why they try to get on board.

If there is a 0724 - 0734 train, this may alleviate a lot of the overcrowding issue on the 0704.

The irony is that if GO cuts stops to deal with overcrowding, it may actually make the overcrowding worse. The faster the train gets to Toronto, the more attractive it becomes for Hamilton, Waterdown, and West Burlington commuters.

I'd hate to be a transit planner for GO these days - so many demands with limited resources, both in terms of money and tracktime.

If there was a faster train from the Hamilton GO eventually, one side benefit could be demand to build some condos (with street level retail) right in the vicinity of the GO station (like the parking lot beside the Plucker or demoing the Yanni's). Being mere steps from the GO station and 45 to 50 minutes to Union would hopefully make such a condo development profitable, although I don't know how much the Chateau Royale has benefited from being near the GO station.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

Actually, it's $305/month.

Correct... typo... my bad. Or was it my bad math? Hmmmm.

[SteelTown]

I thought it would be interesting to copy this here.

Metrolinx requested that the city (Public Works) develop a wish list of 10 things that they would like to be funded for better public transit. So here's the wish list....

• James Street (north end) Rail Station infrastructure to support GO Transit and Via Rail service.

• Cycle and pedestrian network and/or infrastructure investments.

• Vehicle improvements - 60-foot Hybrid articulated fleet on the balance of the B-Line;

• Intelligent Transportation systems - new GPS/CAD/AVL on all Transit vehicles (HSR & DARTS), automated stop announcement on HSR fleet, and security cameras on HSR fleet;

• Downtown Multi-model Transportation Terminal - funding for an expanded McNab Street terminal;

• Improvements to the current B-Line service - upgrade to full Rapid Transit;

• New Waterdown Commuter Link to Aldershot GO Transit station, Burlington GO Transit Station, Burlington Downtown Terminal and Hamilton Downtown Terminal;

• New Airport, Mohawk College, Hamilton Hunter Street GO Transit Station, Downtown, Waterfront, James North GO/Via train station Rapid Transit connector service;

• New South-mountain, Ancaster, Industrial Park, East Mountain Power Centre, Eastgate Mall Rapid Transit connector service;

• New Ancaster Meadowlands, Central Mountain, Centre Mall Rapid Transit connector service.

[matt602]

Looks like a very good list.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

• New South-mountain, Ancaster, Industrial Park, East Mountain Power Centre, Eastgate Mall Rapid Transit connector service;

Sounds like the new Rymal route will also be the new Centennial Pkwy route. Sweet!

Originally Posted by SteelTown

• New Ancaster Meadowlands, Central Mountain, Centre Mall Rapid Transit connector service.

This sounds like a Rapid Transit version of the 41 Mohawk... it's about time!!

[raisethehammer]

wow...great list.
I like the inclusion of Eastgate and Centre Mall as terminus' for their routes.

The GPS/automated system is HUGE. That enables them to put up digital time boards at certain stops (usually the Rapid Transit stops) so people know exactly when the next bus/train is coming.
I'm loving Metrolinx so far.

[SteelTown]

City council has already approved a move to have the HSR obtain a contract with Motorola for the GPS/CAD/AVL system. They are supposed to be installed during the fall. It cost something like $1.5 million for the entire system. A good deal.

The Ontario Human Rights commissioner wants the city to have automatic next voice stop announcement up and ready by the new year.

[raisethehammer]

awesome....the GPS system should help their website and folks with PDA's be right on time with routes.
Help me out - what does CAD/AVL stand for?

[SteelTown]

Global Positioning Satellite (GPS)/ Automated Vehicle Location (AVL).

"The Ontario Human Rights Commission contact with the City of Hamilton follows orders in the City of Toronto and the City of Ottawa to implement bus stop announcements of all bus stops in response to complaints in each of the two communities. It is expected by the OHRC that Hamilton will have system-wide bus stop announcement, manual or automated prior to year end."