LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[DistrictDirt]

Originally Posted by edluva

This is what I mean when I say downtown isn't all that interesting. It hasn't had time to evolve into an organic neighborhood comprised of locally owned restaurants and shops, a local culture. those who proclaim that downtown "has arrived" are need to think deeper

Its not that DTLA isn't evolving, its just that it was economically depressed for decades, and is now evolving so quickly that its skipping right over the phase of mid-priced neighborhood bars, restaurants, and shops. For better or for worse, DTLA has jumped straight to its "destination neighborhood" phase, and I don't see that changing.

Koreatown is a neighborhood that has experienced much slower, more organic growth, and therefore has a metric fuckload of shops and restaurants with middle-of-the-road price points. I have lived there for the past couple years and have thoroughly enjoyed it. I the neighborhood is criminally underrated by a lot of LA residents.

In terms of culture, I would disagree that DTLA doesn't have a culture. Its the most community-oriented neighborhood I've yet lived in in Los Angeles. It most definitely has its own vibe, and is filled with residents that moved there because they appreciate old buildings and a walkable neighborhood. They are fun, creative, down-to-earth people for the most part.

DTLA also has a gonzo underground warehouse party scene that's been happening for a couple years now. Very wild west, and about the furthest thing I could think of from Hollywood's b&t douchebag club scene. It feels a lot like NYC party scene in the early 90s, before Guliani started cracking down.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by brudy

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

brudy, when you say what you said about bldgs being too short....that they're a disease.....that implies to me that the hood you're dealing with must be in fairly good shape.

Originally Posted by brudy

Exactly. With a location this close to rail, it should have much higher density. The city should block this.

These 7 stories are a disease. The more they are permitted, the more developers will attempt to cash in without making a lasting impact.

I can see ppl in a highly rated, attractive city in europe or one of the applauded hipster cities of america complaining or worrying about new projs being too small or too short....being only 7 floors in height....but to feel that way about new devlpt in a hood that has long been full of....& still is stuck with....so many rundown properties & soulless parking lots??! That does make me think of a person getting into a car that has 3 flat tires & complaining that the upholstery is vinyl instead of leather.

but in one way....& since you do live in dt....your POV is good since it gives the casual outsider the impression that dt is so far along in being turned into a nice place, that locals can now worry about new projs being too modest in size.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

You don't see this often. And by this I mean something tall:

that's exciting....or potentially exciting....news. however, I'm a bit leery about investing too much time in assuming it's a done deal cuz the owner is almost 90 years old. So I'm worried that when he passes away, his vision will go with him. iow, I can easily imagine his replacements saying it's too risky to invest in a big bldg on broadway in dtla, so it's better to drop the plans that the old man was dreaming of.

Just as importantly, the owner....who lives in australia....has controlled many other properties on broadway for several yrs, yet in all that time they've seen little to no improvement....at least til not too long ago.

I hope the owner at least feels so much more confident in investing big $$ in dtla today compared with the past, that his plans can now be considered a done deal.

Originally Posted by Wilcal

1) a while back I remember talking with a German tourist..... When I suggested to him to give more days to Los Angeles to explore the city, you should have seen his face. I do profess love for what I consider "my" city, and have always been a booster. I frankly said to him that whatever he may have heard, Los Angeles is not a beautiful city like San Francisco, but it is an incredibly interesting city (especially downtown, which I think is much more so than San Francisco) and it takes time to explore and understand it. However, no matter what I could say, he seemed unconvinced

^ his reaction is very similar to that of a friend of mine....from the sf bay area....who I spent time with in dtla last yr. Her level of enthusiasm was muted, & her demeanor told me that the hood....in her eyes....still was too much a work in progress to really cheer over the way we both felt when visiting near her hometown several yrs ago. Or the city that the german tourist felt he could go ga ga over.

I think that the average person....& probably most ppl....notice things about dt that makes them feel or in a way described by ziggy.....

Originally Posted by ziggy331

I agree with you in that the average person couldn't care less whether a building is clad in stucco versus glass or some other high-quality material. Most people wouldn't even notice or think twice about it. For the record, I'm not saying I think it's ok. This is a forum to discuss skyscraper design, after all.

They don't notice Watermarke's ugly ass parking podium. They do notice gaps in street activity, homeless people, gated storefronts, blank walls, etc. It's simple urban planning. People feel safe on brightly lit streets where there are others walking around them (not homeless people yelling obscenities at them), and they are distracted by the storefronts around them. It's why people hate walking next to Macy's Plaza on Hope or Flower. Barry Shy's 40 story tower in the historic core with no ground floor retail is a bad project IMO. It does nothing to activate the street.

^ I'll have to disagree with you about the barry shy tower on spring st, since, for one thing, artist renderings of it have yet to be released, & for another, whenever I'm in that part of dt, the thing that stands out the most to me is how deadening & unappealing the parking lots are on spring st.

[alki]

We were talking about why developers still put parking in the bldgs they are putting up in DTLA. Well there was a stat reported in a study of DT Seattle this past year that might explain why. Apparently there are 60K people living in DT Seattle. Of that number 43% don't have a car.......the rest have at least one car if not more:

http://www.downtownseattle.com/assets/2013/08/2013-Downtown-Density-Report2.pdf

[alki]

Originally Posted by brudy

At the risk of turning this into another forum war, it's just that it feels like all destination - all nightlife and high end restaurants, not a lot for just a quick bite, or a cool, low key place to grab dinner or a drink. Everything is trying so hard from a design perspective.

That's very much LA. LA sees itself as cutting edge......and is very focused on appearances. Anything established or old or anti design is not venerated or admired much. There are exceptions, of course, like the Original Pantry or Coles.......I know those are not exactly the kind of restaurants you're talking about but they were the only places that I knew of DT that had more of a neighborhood feel and were not hipster hangouts although Original Pantry eventually become one...sort of. LA is just not that kind of town.

Having said that, the fact that DTLA now is a destination is a huge coup. You would understand had you been around in the 90s.

To be honest, most of the people I know who live downtown don't go out much in downtown on the weekends. Dinner yes, but the bars in the historic core are too full of H&V/B&T. All my opinion and various disclaimers.

Ok - nail me to the cross.

One of the hardest things to accept about LA is that it does things its way...........and frequently that's very different from other places. I think those things you want will come eventually but I bet they will not be packaged the way you imagine them and I wonder if they will give you that neighborhood feel you are looking for.

[alki]

Originally Posted by ThreeHundred

You don't see this often. And by this I mean something tall:

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/veter...1f8f20c-1c98-11e3-b468-001a4bcf887a.html

I like the design but wish he wouldn't build it on Spring.

[alki]

Originally Posted by blackcat23

Wow. I wasn't anticipating something quite this tall when they said Hellen was considering 20+ floors for the Spring Street garage site. Probably about 440-450 feet here.

Not many places in Downtown where people might be opposed to a high rise, but this is one of them.

Blackcat, I didn't know you had a blog. Can you link me to it.......you can PM if you want?

BTW I really appreciate your posts. Always some of the best on this forum.

[ThomJames]

Originally Posted by brudy

At the risk of turning this into another forum war, it's just that it feels like all destination - all nightlife and high end restaurants, not a lot for just a quick bite, or a cool, low key place to grab dinner or a drink. Everything is trying so hard from a design perspective. Where are the quick eats dinner places that don't cost $40 for two people but isn't take out? There are a few places (like Maccheroni Republic), but not many. Where's the equivalent of the 101 Diner? Or the sandwhichy cafes that fill Santa Monica and Weho? We just don't have 'em yet and it's a little frustrating to see two more bars set to open on the same block. Add in the potential for all the theater clubs and the new bar in Spring Arcade and it's starting to feel like only a nightlife neighborhood. Like many other aspects of downtown, there isn't a lot of balance yet.

To be honest, most of the people I know who live downtown don't go out much in downtown on the weekends. Dinner yes, but the bars in the historic core are too full of H&V/B&T. All my opinion and various disclaimers.

Ok - nail me to the cross.

Have to say I completely disagree. There could always be more reasonable dining options, but I think there already is a wide range of reasonably priced places. Tons in Little Tokyo; just at the food court at 7th/ Fig, which I thought was very well done for that type of thing. The list goes on and on. In fact we probably already have the most restaurants per square mile than anywhere else in the city.

Sure, downtown isn't perfect yet, will it ever be? But progress takes time, comes in fits and starts, and as a resident of over 10 years, I love to watch it. You can live in staid, already developed areas of the city, in which nothing much really changes, or have a constant slate of new business and new adventures.

I prefer the later, and try to support the continued success of downtown. I think when you move here, you know what you are getting into. If you think there is a lack of services, diners, retail, move to fricking Larchmont or BH.

I have quite of few friends that have moved here from other large cities, and really like it here.

[alki]

Originally Posted by ThomJames

Sure, downtown isn't perfect yet, will it ever be? But progress takes time, comes in fits and starts, and as a resident of over 10 years, I love to watch it. You can live in staid, already developed areas of the city, in which nothing much really changes, or have a constant slate of new business and new adventures.

And that's why people love LA......the rate of change is phenomenal. Very few cities change that quickly.

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by ThomJames

Have to say I completely disagree. There could always be more reasonable dining options, but I think there already is a wide range of reasonably priced places. Tons in Little Tokyo; just at the food court at 7th/ Fig, which I thought was very well done for that type of thing. The list goes on and on. In fact we probably already have the most restaurants per square mile than anywhere else in the city.

Little Tokyo is great, if only it was a seamless journey from anywhere else in Downtown. To get there from 9th/Broadway would mean trekking through blocks of nothingness, parking lots, and dog shit. In an established downtown this would be a pleasant distance to walk, with lots to see.

7th/Fig is all very tasty but certainly overpriced (aside from maybe Indus which I love), and while its clean & modern looking its not that nice a place to hang out (a big dumb hole in the ground). Sometimes I'll go there in the evenings if I want to be in solitude.

According to this we don't have the best restaurant density in the city:
http://www.walkscore.com/CA/Los_Angeles

The Lime Truck guys just opened up a great new quick restaurant at the bottom of HAAS Building. Its been busy since it opened last week. I encourage everyone to try it. Not cheap, but its delicious.
http://tltfood.com/locations/

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by HunterK

Little Tokyo is great, if only it was a seamless journey from anywhere else in Downtown. To get there from 9th/Broadway would mean trekking through blocks of nothingness, parking lots, and dog shit. In an established downtown this would be a pleasant distance to walk, with lots to see.

7th/Fig is all very tasty but certainly overpriced (aside from maybe Indus which I love), and while its clean & modern looking its not that nice a place to hang out (a big dumb hole in the ground). Sometimes I'll go there in the evenings if I want to be in solitude.

According to this we don't have the best restaurant density in the city:
http://www.walkscore.com/CA/Los_Angeles

The Lime Truck guys just opened up a great new quick restaurant at the bottom of HAAS Building. Its been busy since it opened last week. I encourage everyone to try it. Not cheap, but its delicious.
http://tltfood.com/locations/

Everything at fig and 7th (taste) is less than 10 bucks and very good. You cant get much cheaper than that. Also, its been getting busier and busier at night. i was at Mendocino at 9 pm last night and there was a decent amount of people there. They will also get their liquor license in the next month and with loteria and the other bar opening up, it will certainly change.

[alki]

Originally Posted by HunterK

According to this we don't have the best restaurant density in the city:
http://www.walkscore.com/CA/Los_Angeles

LOL. Yes, but DTLA is the most walkable neighborhood in the city according to the analysis you posted. That's good, isn't it?

I appreciate your willingness to criticize but why do you always find the one rotten apple in the basket?

[alki]

Originally Posted by brudy

Yeah, you're right about that. I guess my gripe is that everything seems so 'destination' right now, aiming for an LA Mag writeup or something. And I really don't want downtown to be just a nightlife hub, it has to be a fully evolved community. One gripe about bars is that they aren't open or a lot less active during the day. That's taking day time and early evening street life away. And at night it's super loud and semi-obnoxious. I like bars, don't get me wrong, but we need a lot more casual dining and gathering spaces.

This place may have an interesting vibe to it when it opens.....from Brigham's blog:

Kinfolk Studios from Brooklyn Opening Second U.S. Location in Downtown LA

Posted on September 12, 2013 by Brigham Yen | 2 Comments

Another exciting addition will soon be added to the urban renewal efforts along Broadway in Downtown LA. Several sources have informed me that a new bar from Brooklyn, New York called Kinfolk Studios has leased out the basement level under the architecturally stunning Eastern Columbia building at 9th and Broadway. A call to Kinfolk Studios, located in Williamsburg, confirms that they are, indeed, planning to open at the Eastern Columbia. Apparently, not only is it a bar but also a creative graphic design and bike studio. It will be interesting to see how that concept will be executed in this location.

read more..........

http://brighamyen.com/2013/09/12/kinfolk...ond-u-s-location-downtown-la/#more-10859

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by alki

LOL. Yes, but DTLA is the most walkable neighborhood in the city according to the analysis you posted. That's good, isn't it?

I appreciate your willingness to criticize but why do you always find the one rotten apple in the basket?

Yes thats great, as it should be.

And I do because there are so many when it comes to DTLA that people choose to ignore.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by alki

Having said that, the fact that DTLA now is a destination is a huge coup. You would understand had you been around in the 90s.

since you once lived in dt, & experienced the city's past, your POV has a fuller context than what's true of some of the young uns who are among the LA forumers at ssp.com.

I'm old enough to remember quite clearly how really sad & even desperate the hood became, & not really all that long ago. But I'm also realistic enough to admit that it still can be quite sobering to visit dt today....notice all the things that still next fixing & cleaning up....& realize that dt remains a work in progress.

I feel sorry for ppl who were sort of the predecessors to LA forumers over 30 to 40 yrs ago, who had to endure what to them must have seemed like....& was....permanent decline. They would never live to see signs of real hope, or enough hope.

so in comparison, the children in this vid should count themselves as rather fortunate....


• Video Link


btw, unless I skimmed the article too quickly & missed it, the dt news has published their quarterly update on new devpt or proposals in dtla, but I didn't see any mention of the clark hotel on Hill St. Things like that are why I sympathize with forumers who live in dt & can easily become overly impatient with a pace of change that has to be measured in yrs or decades instead of days or months.

[blackcat23]

Originally Posted by alki

Blackcat, I didn't know you had a blog. Can you link me to it.......you can PM if you want?

BTW I really appreciate your posts. Always some of the best on this forum.

Thanks!

My blog is Building Los Angeles.

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by blackcat23

Thanks!

My blog is Building Los Angeles.

It's really great, keep it up! Do you work in some form of city planning?

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Some good news for Downtown Office Vacancy

The SEC is moving its offices from the Miracle mile to Downtown LA. They are leasing 58,000 square feet in a long term lease at the Citibank Building.

[alki]

Originally Posted by citywatch

since you once lived in dt, & experienced the city's past, your POV has a fuller context than what's true of some of the young uns who are among the LA forumers at ssp.com.

I think people can see what the past was like without having to experience it. I think what has happened is that they have gotten a taste of progress and want even more progress faster........while feeling frustration over why the changes are not exactly how they envision them..

I think Edluva and District Dirt both have it right.....and actually are saying pretty much the same thing. DTLA didn't evolve organically which permitted it to skip over the step that most neighborhoods experience during the developmental process. LA loves stimulation and new things. And when it sees something it likes.........and the timing is just right and the stars align........it brings the pressure and wealth of the entire city to bear on the new toy. I saw it with Old Pasadena and Third Ave/SM in the 90s and now its happening to DTLA.

With all this pressure, as EL points out, DTLA's evolution hasn't been organic.........the changes were not natural and done in increments; instead so much pressure was brought to bear that as DD points out, the whole process skipped a step. To me its very typical LA...........I don't know of another city in this country that operates in this fashion......maybe NYC.

And that's why I am saying to Brudy do not be surprised if DTLA doesn't become what he envisions.........at least not for many, many more years. The artifice that overlays DTLA's changes will not go away overnite. I think you can skip a step in the beginning but eventually you will have to go back and complete that step. Could be wrong but that's what I think.

[alki]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Some good news for Downtown Office Vacancy

The SEC is moving its offices from the Miracle mile to Downtown LA. They are leasing 58,000 square feet in a long term lease at the Citibank Building.

Nice! Good to hear.