Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[MonctonRad]

By Jove.

Anytime I see a picture of that man, I have a conversion reaction, especially if it is a picture of him grinning like a Cheshire cat............

[MolsonExport]

to change the topic somewhat, look at the turnaround in Montreal's growth (woot woot!):


https://statistique.quebec.ca/en/com...regions-quebec

Québec, May 22, 2024. – Almost all of Québec’s administrative regions saw their population increase between July 1, 2022 and July 1, 2023, and half of them posted their strongest growth since data became available at this level of geography in 1986–1987. This is especially true for Montréal, which had the strongest growth of all regions by far. Montréal’s population increased by 89,600 over the past year, up 4.3% compared to 2.3% for the province overall. No region had ever registered such a high annual growth rate. The increase in Montréal alone accounted for 44% of province’s total annual growth.

The Capitale-Nationale region came in second place in terms of population growth for 2022–2023 (2.6%), its highest ranking to date. Population growth also reached new highs in the regions of Estrie, Centre-du-Québec, Chaudière-Appalaches, Mauricie, Montérégie, Saguenay–Lac-Saint-Jean, and Bas-Saint-Laurent. The Lanaudière, Laval, Outaouais and Laurentides regions also experienced strong growth but did not set new records.

By comparison, growth was more moderate in the regions of Nord-du-Québec, Abitibi-Témiscamingue and Gaspésie–Îles-de-la-Madeleine. Côte-Nord is the only region whose population did not increase between 2022 and 2023, but it remained stable after posting several declines over the past few years.

In 10 out of 17 regions, there were more deaths than births. This has been the case for several years in regions with older populations such as Gaspésie–Îles-de-la-Madeleine, Bas-Saint-Laurent and Mauricie, but the same phenomenon is now being observed in regions such as Capitale-Nationale, Abitibi-Témiscamingue and Centre-du-Québec.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Franco Quebecois represent all Francophones in Canada?

Granted, these measurs don't directly affect the situation of those Canadian francophones living outside Quebec.

But do you seriously think their situation is better than in Quebec?

And... since when do you even care?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Not Quebeckers then. Not anglos or allos. I hear you.

"Nous" but missing some people that have lived there for centuries and have made lasting contributions to that province and country.
]

So I'm not allowed to have francophones as one of my personal in-groups now?

Have you ever read this book?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_of_the_Self

[MolsonExport]

well, yes, along with dozens of other books on the subject matter.

I guess we will go along with you being the victim.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Assemblée Nationale (c/o Le Devoir)


Is that a cross I see?

As mentioned by Acajack, the crucifix was removed from the National Assembly more than 5 years ago. As for the flag, it is a symbol, not someone in a position of power. A flag never personally arrested anyone or used force to coerced someone to do something. It is apples and oranges. Judges can send you to prison, police officers can arrest you and prison guards can use force to control you, those positions of power need to be free of religious symbols to show the neutrality of the State when using force. As for teachers, who cannot put you in prison (detention doesn't count...), I use to be on the fence. Then I remembered that in Québec, it took everything to get religion out of schools, and no way should we let it get back in (whatever the religion).

A symbol like a flag should reflects history; religion used to be important in Québec. Also, I am against the monarchy, but I dont mind the monarchist symbols (fleurs-de-lis) on the flag anymore than the cross.

[Loco101]

I wonder if the flag will ever be changed like Montreal's was about 5 or so years ago? Almost every provincial flag (or maybe all of them?) represent colonialism. I really hope Ontario adopts something new in the near future that is more representative and interesting.

[theman23]

Is this the unofficial Olympic thread? Canadian men win gold in 4x100m relay!

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by theman23

Is this the unofficial Olympic thread? Canadian men win gold in 4x100m relay!

The Radio-Canada commentary of the relay deserves a medal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD9XoXmj3T8


Summer McIntosh singing bilingual O Canada is cute too:
https://youtu.be/42xVwpNXrq4?si=_3Rk3v0_Nkdq2kZ5&t=150

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I was also thinking over the weekend that Quebec is also very egalitarian, so perhaps this plays into it.

Could be, although France is very egalitarian too, and yet the French like sports' winners, as was obvious during those games (but are also quick to reject and criticize losers).

Anyway, the country finished #5, which was the best that could be expected as per my post 2 weeks ago. Several gold medals that should have been won and instead ended in silver medals because French athletes in general tend not to do well under pressure (Léon Marchand being an exception). If these 3 or 4 gold medals had been won, the country would have ended #3 (France's ratio of gold medal vs silver medal was one of the worst in these games, the opposite of countries like Japan or Australia).

I spent the last week touring the Olympic sites. Great ambiance. I took pictures of one of your Canadian gold winners at a show where medalists from various nations appeared on stage to celebrate (this daily event was a novelty of these games, which may be replicated in future games). I may post them here later. He seemed rather to like it, and didn't want to leave the stage, grabbing people's phones to take selfies.

At that event, there was all the French swimmer medalists, including Léon Marchand, which is why I went. They were frankly stunning, much more stunning than on TV. The US rowing men's team who won the gold medal were also stunning. The Canadian gold medalist looked like... an East German from 1990 (hair an facial hair), which was kind of weird.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

(For example, banning the use of French in the locker room in the name of team "cohesion", as we've sometimes seen.)

Seriously??

Something like that would be a serious scandal in Belgium. In fact I can imagine the federal sports' minister would be forced to resign.

(in Belgium's case, it wouldn't be French banned in the locker room, but Dutch, and the Flemish nationalist parties would NEVER accept it)

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

But wearing a crucifix or a headscarf is somehow...a bad thing?

Ask the Iranian women beaten (sometimes to death) by the Revolutionary Guard Corps!!

The Islamic veil is both a symbol of oppression and something that DOES kill TODAY, not 100 years ago. Millions (make that hundreds of millions rather) of women suffer from that veil in the Islamic world. To compare it to something as innocuous as a historical cross on a flag is not worthy of a university professor.

PS: The veil worn by the Dutch marathon winner who received her gold medal during the closing ceremony of the Olympic Games was harshly criticized here, and has triggered a controversy.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I wonder if the flag will ever be changed like Montreal's was about 5 or so years ago? Almost every provincial flag (or maybe all of them?) represent colonialism. I really hope Ontario adopts something new in the near future that is more representative and interesting.

The flag of Canada was changed, wasn't it? Even the current flag of Québec is a new one adopted in the 1950s or 1960s if I'm not mistaken (but based on ancient, pre-Conquest flags and symbolism, which is why it works so well because it "looks" old and traditional, even though it's in fact very recent).

[New Brisavoine]

Interesting tidbit in the bio of Kamala Harris.

Harris has said she struggled with understanding her French immersion, so her mother sent her to an English-speaking school for high school. This would no longer have been possible the next year, when Quebec passed a law requiring all immigrants who did not previously have English schooling in Quebec to enroll their children in French-speaking schools.

Just one more year, and maybe she'd be a Québec Solidaire politician in Montréal now.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Ask the Iranian women beaten (sometimes to death) by the Revolutionary Guard Corps!!

The Islamic veil is both a symbol of oppression and something that DOES kill TODAY, not 100 years ago. Millions (make that hundreds of millions rather) of women suffer from that veil in the Islamic world. To compare it to something as innocuous as a historical cross on a flag is not worthy of a university professor.

PS: The veil worn by the Dutch marathon winner who received her gold medal during the closing ceremony of the Olympic Games was harshly criticized here, and has triggered a controversy.

I work with numerous Muslim women who have PhDs. I know many more at universities around the world. They are professors. Some are married, many are not. Some choose to wear the headscarf.

One professor from Montreal that I know quite well has done considerable research on the topic. You may want to read up on it before making assumptions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homa_Hoodfar
https://iranianstudies.utoronto.ca/d...oodfar-homa-2/
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10...137-04830-1_22

To compare a headscarf to something as innocuous as a historical cross on a flag is worthy of a university professor. You are in no position to tell me otherwise.

Why are you so intent on being an agent provocateur?

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

The Canadian gold medalist looked like... an East German from 1990 (hair an facial hair), which was kind of weird.

That is unworthy of even a foreign agent provocateur.

Unless of course you are just Malek in disguise. He is your doppelganger.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

That is unworthy of even a foreign agent provocateur....

This was a joke online following Katzberg's victory; Australian and German fans were claiming him as their own and calling for DNA tests...

[Meuhud]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I work with numerous Muslim women who have PhDs. I know many more at universities around the world. They are professors. Some are married, many are not. Some choose to wear the headscarf.

One professor from Montreal that I know quite well has done considerable research on the topic. You may want to read up on it before making assumptions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homa_Hoodfar
https://iranianstudies.utoronto.ca/d...oodfar-homa-2/
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10...137-04830-1_22

To compare a headscarf to something as innocuous as a historical cross on a flag is worthy of a university professor. You are in no position to tell me otherwise.

Why are you so intent on being an agent provocateur?

The professor needs to get out from behind his desk and go into the Islamic World to understand the suppression of women via being forced to wear these coverings. It is the same for very orthodox Jewish women, maybe the Amish, etc. People being forced to conform as a way for the elites to keep their power by citing religion (dubious) versus common sense. It is not for nothing that the Islamic Republic of Iran forces women to submit to their "dress code"!

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Meuhud

The professor needs to get out from behind his desk and go into the Islamic World to understand the suppression of women via being forced to wear these coverings. It is the same for very orthodox Jewish women, maybe the Amish, etc. People being forced to conform as a way for the elites to keep their power by citing religion (dubious) versus common sense. It is not for nothing that the Islamic Republic of Iran forces women to submit to their "dress code"!

You are out of line telling me what I need to do. Just because it is mandated for women in some places, and by some people doesn't mean it is a universal truism. I don't need to be a professor to know this.

It is interesting how you randomly stumbled across this thread.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Meuhud

The professor needs to get out from behind his desk and go into the Islamic World to understand the suppression of women via being forced to wear these coverings. It is the same for very orthodox Jewish women, maybe the Amish, etc. People being forced to conform as a way for the elites to keep their power by citing religion (dubious) versus common sense. It is not for nothing that the Islamic Republic of Iran forces women to submit to their "dress code"!

Il n'est pire aveugle que celui qui ne veut pas voir, as the French saying goes. Unfortunately he's not alone. Large swathes of the European and North American Left share this crazy belief that the Islamic veil is somehow ok, or even a sign of tolerance and/or positive affirmation.