LeBreton Flats 2.0 (RendezVous LeBreton) | Cancelled

[rocketphish]

LeBreton Re-Imagined team would be open to the Senators owning the arena

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 27, 2016 | Last Updated: January 27, 2016 10:11 PM EST

One of the stranger aspects of the Devcore, Canderel and DLS Group’s plan to redevelop LeBreton Flats has been the inclusion of an NHL-calibre arena, when it’s the competing team – RendezVous LeBreton – that owns the Ottawa Senators.

But Wednesday night, Canderel senior vice-president Daniel Peritz said that if DCDLS wins the competition, his team is open to Senators owner Eugene Melnyk’s owning the arena – and maybe more.

“Our attitude is, if we win the bid – and we firmly believe that the Senators should be downtown – we’re there and we’re willing and able to have a variety of discussions,” said Peritz in an interview with the Citizen.

When asked specifically if that included the Senators owning the arena, Peritz answered: “Under the right conditions, everything is on the table.”

Melnyk has made it clear on a number of occasions that he’s not interested in selling the team or shifting it downtown unless he owns the arena, a position he reiterated this week. No one from the RendezVous team was immediately available to comment on the possibility of owning an NHL arena in DCDLS’s LeBreton Re-Imagined project.

DCDLS has not approached RendezVous or Melnyk about any possible partnership, as it would break the rules of the bidding process, set by the National Capital Commission.

But, Peritz added, “as soon as it’s over, we will talk. If (Melnyk) says, ‘I want to buy land and these are the conditions I want to do it’, or ‘I want to be a tenant,’ we’re willing to have any discussions with him. We’ve been quite categoric, but it seems that the message was a little lost in all of the dialogue and noise in the last couple of days in Ottawa.”

This latest marketing push came on a day when both teams were jockeying for position. Earlier in the day, Melnyk told Postmedia’s Bruce Garrioch that playing in a new downtown arena could mean as much as $10 million more for the Sens’ payroll, so the team “can spend more.”

And later in the day, Senators players – including defenceman Chris Phillips – were on hand at the Canadian War Museum at the second and final evening of the public consultations for the proposals.

It’s no secret that Melnyk has been looking for additional sources of revenue for the Senators franchise, including an unsuccessful bid for a casino that led to friction with Mayor Jim Watson. It’s unclear whether owning only the arena in the DCSLS development – if Melnyk would even consider such a move – would be enough for the Sens organization.

But Peritz says his group is open to the possibility of Melynk acquiring more than just the arena, if that’s what it takes to get the Sens downtown.

“That’s where it comes down to what is a formula that works,” Peritz said.

“The only way we can have a formula that works, is to sit down with the man and say, ‘What are the criteria that you have and the things that you need, and then we can have a discussion? We can’t deal with one item at a time. You have to deal with all of the items. Our desire is to exhaust all discussions before we say it doesn’t work.”

Both groups are proposing to build an NHL-calibre arena on LeBreton Flats. It would be one of the first things built if RendezVous LeBreton wins the competition, with a projected opening date of 2021.

The 18,500-seat Devcore Canderel arena is currently slotted into the project’s third and final phase, 12 to 15 years from now.

But it could be ready within five years if the Devcore Canderel group wins the LeBreton competition and Melnyk is willing to come to terms for use of the arena, Peritz said.

“If it’s what the public wants and there’s a party there ready to cut a deal with him in one fashion or another, (is he saying) he just won’t even consider having a discussion with us to move the team downtown?”

Under those circumstances, Peritz said, he would be very surprised if Melnyk refused to even talk to the Devcore Canderel team about moving to its arena.

“I can’t think of another location in downtown Ottawa that could accommodate the Senators,” he said. “Is the die then cast forever that they will remain in Kanata? Is (Melnyk) basically saying to the people of Ottawa, ‘That’s it, we’ll never move downtown,’ even if people are ready to do a deal with him?

Peritz thinks “the dynamics will change,” depending on who wins the LeBreton competition which, he said, “should be won on merit, not on popularity.

“If it’s determined that our plan is the better plan, what’s next? We know we’re ready to sit down and try to hammer something out with him, whatever that might be. We’re ready to have the discussion.”

– With files from Bruce Garrioch

dbutler@ottawacitizen.com
twitter.com/ButlerDon

http://ottawacitizen.com/life/life-s...downtown-arena

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

My point was that in the Devcore proposal, there is significantly more pedestrian-friendly or pedestrian-ONLY interconnected space.

And as Ottawa knows full well, "pedestrian-ONLY interconnected space" is a one-way ticket to urban planning succe—

Oh, right.

And just because we've always enclosed our parks completely by streets doesn't make it the right idea.

Actually, it kinda does.

What else do propose enclosing parks with?

[TheBrain]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

[B]LeBreton Flats bids go all in on LRT for major events, but there's a missing link between the site and Gatineau


But one of the major challenges of both proposals is how to manage the transportation flow between Ottawa and Gatineau, considering the city’s two transit systems don’t connect at LeBreton Flats. The most obvious solution is to extend Ottawa’s Trillium Line O-Train across the Prince of Wales Bridge. The old rail bridge spans the Ottawa River north of Bayview station and it’s the obvious link for rapid transit to Gatineau, since the terminus of the O-Train is at Bayview. The city of Ottawa owns the bridge.

What kind of work would be needed to make the bridge usuable by buses? Have the Rapibuses go across and then get on SJAM and head downtown, instead of going over Portage? A single lane that would be open to the south in the morning and north in the evening. You could even make a double lane on the island "just-in-case" a bus needs to pass another one or something. For special events at the flats you could have the flow of the bridge follow the start and ending of the event.

Would just need an on/off ramp to SJAM and from there a stop at the arena/LRT station.

[Mr.Flintstone]

I think the reason why people think the RendezVous plan looks boring is because the pictures they have lack color. If someone that's skilled with photoshops can add color to some of the buildings, might change a few minds.

[lrt's friend]

I spent over 2 hours at the War Museum this evening. I asked a lot of questions.

Melnyk came across as a bit of an old fuddy duddy, at one point insulting one of the questioners.

I came to the conclusion that Melnyk's bid is about hockey and condos and not much else. The Devcore bid is much more dynamic, and diverse, has deeper pockets and satisfies the need to address the national interest. It was clear that some big corporations were on board to support the various attractions, some of which would be unique in Canada. I asked point blank whether these attractions were sustainable. Not only yes, but with exception of the arena, they would be built as part of Phase 1.

I expressed concerned on how the John A MacDonald parkway cut off the waterfront and I was told that this is being addressed by the NCC as part of another project. I hope so.

I walked to the event from Bayview Station. I essentially walked across the site. It took 20 minutes. I know I am fool about questioning the wisdom of building the Arena midway between transit stations but that was publicly questioned by someone else this evening. I am not the only one who feels that the arena should be next to a transit station and all recent NHL arenas in Canada have been built immediately next to rapid transit. I believe that will also be the case with the new Edmonton arena.

My conclusions from the event is that Devcore will likely win, the Senators will likely remain in Kanata until Melnyk dies and a new arena will not be built on Lebreton Flats anytime soon. This will only change if Melnyk is willing to partner with Devcore and I believe that Devcore would be willing. I hope so, as it will be a big disappointment to not move NHL hockey downtown. Although I liked the Melnyk arena design more, the Devcore proposal integrated their arena right into both the Confederation Line and the Trillium Line.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

John Barclay also liked the RendezVous design, saying it did a better job of showing the overview of the whole site. However, he didn’t like the RendezVous highrise residential development, which he feels overshadows Victoria Island and the Algonquin encampment.

For the love of Pete... the nearest "highrise" would be 500m from Victoria Island; the rest would be up to 1200m away.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I walked to the event from Bayview Station. I essentially walked across the site. It took 20 minutes. I know I am fool about questioning the wisdom of building the Arena midway between transit stations but that was publicly questioned by someone else this evening. I am not the only one who feels that the arena should be next to a transit station and all recent NHL arenas in Canada have been built immediately next to rapid transit. I believe that will also be the case with the new Edmonton arena.

The war museum is a lot further in, and pedestrian mobility in the area is currently limited. It won't be anything near 20 minutes if the Melynk arena is built.

[1overcosc]

As I learn more and see more my opinion is drifting more and more away from the Delcore proposal and more and more to the Sens one.

Delcore has built a great proposal... for tourists. Not much utility to local residents. Like Parliament Hill, it would be a place that locals see maybe once or twice but otherwise ignore. By contrast, Melynk's proposal has a lot more in it for people who live in Ottawa while still being a decent tourist attraction.

[Uhuniau]

I did the NCC survey online which, naturally, has a bug in the code so that at the end you have no idea whether your survey was correctly logged or not.

[Mr.Flintstone]

I'm leaning towards the RendezVous proposal. I like the intensity of the layout, buried LRT, prefer the arena and seem more sustainable in the long run.

Now, the reason why I didn't prefer the Devcore proposal is, like other have said too touristy. There's things I wish the RendezVous proposal could steal. I really like the Canada Square from Devcore. It should replace the Nation Plaza from the RendezVous proposal. I also prefer the library from the Dsevcore proposal.

Few question; Why have a capacity of 18 000 for the arena why not go for 20 000. Whats the height limit for the area? A 60 storey + building would be cool.

Also wanted to mention the rendevous group seem to have got really good backers

[mykl]

Did anyone else notice that in the winter edition of the render outside of the Rendezvous arena, there are doors leading directly to outdoor ice and a little skating area with the Sens celebrating as the spectators leave the arena. If that actually came to fruition, it would be pretty cool

And you guys crack me up. Parks bordered by god knows what. Tourists I guess, if Devcore wins.

[Temperance]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Human scale is found at street level, not in the sky. A thousand-storey building is not incompatible with being "human scaled".

I know where you're coming from but living in Amsterdam I see the advantage of medium density - which still gets you a lot of people living in an area. I actually do see massive apartment blocks as being pretty inhospitable (just think of housing projects). I think there is far too much of this in the Rendez Vous proposal. Big apartment blocks surrounded by streets. There are parks but they seem to be mostly around the edges of the development.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

And as Ottawa knows full well, "pedestrian-ONLY interconnected space" is a one-way ticket to urban planning succe—

Oh, right.



Actually, it kinda does.

What else do propose enclosing parks with?

If you're referring to Sparks Street, other mistakes were made aside from the pedestrian access angle.

Seriously do you want this site to be packed with cars whizzing by you night in and night out? It would fit in with the rest of autowa certainly..

[DubberDom]

Originally Posted by Mr.Flintstone

Few question; Why have a capacity of 18 000 for the arena why not go for 20 000.

Need to balance supply and demand - the current CTC is too large, has too many seat, subsequently the Sens are forces to discount seats. They also reduced the number of seats through the years by converting suites to display areas (ie Dodge Ram) and Club Bell. The CTC had a "full capacity" of 20,500 (incl standing room and suites - there are 12 seats in a box, but you can get up to 20 tickets for example). I think that the new configuration is around 19,000 "seats" but could fit in over 20,000.

18,000 is the right number, the result will be 100% capacity at higher revenue and no "$19 tickets with a free hot dog"

[Horus]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

[B]LeBreton Flats bids go all in on LRT for major events, but there's a missing link between the site and Gatineau


But extending the O-Train isn’t up the proponents – it’s up to the city of Ottawa, which has pushed the plan off into the future. Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson and Gatineau Mayor Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin were to meet early this year to discuss STO buses in Ottawa. It’s possible that the redevelopment of LeBreton could spur the two cities, and the federal government set to spend billions on infrastructure stimulus projects, to extend the O-Train sooner.

While not their decision, I'm certain that whichever group wins the bid could apply enough pressure to the decision-making parties to get something done sooner rather than later. This LeBreton development would be the most compelling reason presented so far to push for an interprovincial link at that location.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Temperance

I know where you're coming from but living in Amsterdam I see the advantage of medium density - which still gets you a lot of people living in an area. I actually do see massive apartment blocks as being pretty inhospitable (just think of housing projects).

Yes, "project" housing is pretty inhospitable. And?

I think there is far too much of this in the Rendez Vous proposal. Big apartment blocks surrounded by streets. There are parks but they seem to be mostly around the edges of the development.

Big apartment buildings surrounded by parks is the sterile landscape of Lincoln Fields or Heron Road.

The edges of the development are the best places for edge-vacuuming soul-sucking, life-killing garbage like more pointless stupid empty parks to satisfy Ottawa's and the NCC's utterly insatiable public open green space fetish.

A park may as well be a parking lot in most cases. They contribute equally to street life, unless, in the case of a park, they are tightly woven into the fabric of the surrounding urban landscape. That's why a park like Dundonald is so good, and why those in the suburbs are places for bored teenagers to spark up.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

If you're referring to Sparks Street, other mistakes were made aside from the pedestrian access angle.

Seriously do you want this site to be packed with cars whizzing by you night in and night out? It would fit in with the rest of autowa certainly..

No, with cars driving slowly by on streets that have people on their sidewalks and lots of ground-level animation and activity.

Those would be indicia of a successful urban district. Ermagerd, people want to be there.

[Acajack]

Has there been any talk in the anglophone media about Lebreton-Bayview becoming a possible terminus for a revitalized tourist steam train that would cross the Prince of Wales Bridge and then run eastwards to Montebello?

It's been mentioned a few times in the francophone media over the past couple of days.

[Radster]

Just wondering why is it such a problem that the Devcore bid is too touristy? I am of the opinion, that if this bid has bunch of new tourist attractions (Ripleys, museums, skydiving, botanical garden, etc) accessible year-round, then all the better for Ottawa. New tourists will come and fill more hotel rooms, and the tourists who come already, will decide to stay for a day longer than they do now. All pros to me. Doesn't mean it will be all tacky like Niagara either. Also, look at the spin off effects, like the airport getting busier with new destinations, more flights, city gets livelier and less sleepy.....

I just don't see why there is this tendency on this site from Ottawa people to be so adverse to touristy attractions and ideas that push the envelope. Why so sceptical that some of these attractions will become white elephants? We are not talking Olympic Stadium here, just a few small/medium-sized buildings. If one or a few of the attractions fail, so be it, new ones will take their place, after all, it is prime real estate.

Ottawa is a sleepy town, do you really want it to remain that way forever? Sens bid is great too, but it just wont bring any influx of tourists. Like LRT's friend said, its just mainly arena and condos.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Has there been any talk in the anglophone media about Lebreton-Bayview becoming a possible terminus for a revitalized tourist steam train that would cross the Prince of Wales Bridge and then run eastwards to Montebello?

It's been mentioned a few times in the francophone media over the past couple of days.

Dear Lord, I hope not.

If the bridge is brought back up to train-bearing standards, then it should be used for interprovincial train transit.