Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[jmt18325]

I'd certainly go if it was in Calgary.

[Rollerstud98]

I was able to go to Salt Lake in 2002 and Turino in 2006 to watch my bro compete. 2002 much more enjoyable. Unfortunately he retired from his sport before 2010. Back in '88 when the torch came through Airdrie my bro got to run with the guy carrying the torch, also pretty cool.

2002 I was at the short track speed skating where that Australian fella won gold, pretty exciting race and we were seated just a few rows in front of his family, really cool experience.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by someone123

What do you mean by that? Better events? More profitable? Subjectivity a nicer looking building?

The Moncton arena is going to have around 15% of the capacity, a smaller market, and a lot less for visitors to do nearby. I think these characteristics are more significant than the age and style of the buildings.

There was always talk of a new arena in Halifax but not much in the way of concrete plans. A new arena would need to be significantly larger to justify the cost. The current one was renovated in 2015.

What do you mean "15% of the capacity"!!!

The Moncton arena will have 8500 seats, ScotiaBank Place in Halifax has a little over 10,000 seats. By my calculations, that gives the Moncton events centre about 82% of the capacity of ScotiaBank Place - not much of a difference if you ask me........

Also, what's this about "a lot less for visitors to do" in Moncton. Granted, Halifax has size going for it, but the last time I checked Halifax didn't have a zoo, a major water park, an adjacent permanent amusement park, an actual friggin' winery in city limits or nearby beaches that are actually warm enough to swim in. Moncton's casino actually has a performing arts centre (Molson Canadian Centre) attached which attracts major acts. The casino in Halifax looks a little lonely and underused in it's forgotten corner of your waterfront.

A recent study came out showing that on a year round basis, the tourism and hospitality industry in Moncton is actually stronger and more valuable in metro Moncton than it is in all of PEI.

HRM has a population of about 420,000. The most comparable area in southeast NB is Westmoreland/Albert/Kent Counties, with a population of 210,000. We're not talking about orders of magnitude of difference here......

In terms of acts - if you ever bothered to look at the touring acts in the region, almost everything that comes to Halifax comes to Moncton too. Sometimes, acts will come to Moncton and not to Halifax.

Of course, you are such a Halifax booster, I'm sure you would be incapable of believing this. You are consistent though someone........

[Acajack]

I think he meant 15 percent LESS capacity.

[someone123]

Yes, I meant 15% less, sorry. I'm travelling and writing posts on my phone and it turns out that one had several errors.

I asked for clarification because "premiere" doesn't have a clear meaning. It's likely there are aspects of the events centre in Moncton I am not aware of. But it is still apparently smaller than a similar facility built in Halifax nearly 40 years ago (which people there complain about and want to replace), and maybe it's designed to serve double-duty as convention space as well?

I will also say that a few posters appear to want to construct an image of the Maritimes as a region with no standout city, or with a Calgary and Edmonton kind of setup. That doesn't jive well with the reality on the ground. Moncton might be comparable in specific ways and it might have the best of some things in the region but it is a significantly smaller and more limited city, just as Halifax is smaller than lots of other cities elsewhere in Canada and abroad.

Imagine if there were threads about France and people obsessively insisted that Lyon and Marseille have the best of this or that without mentioning Paris except to point out its flaws! To complete the analogy the guy who lived in Paris years ago would get called a booster for questioning any of it.

[esquire]

As a somewhat impartial observer here, I'll chime in and say that in my opinion, Moncton's new rink can legitimately be called the premiere arena in Atlantic Canada, "premiere" meaning most impressive.

Facility size factors into being "premiere", but it's not the be all and end all. The dumpy old Cleveland Stadium was massive, but by the end of its days in the 1990s, no one would have called it premiere at anything. Scotiabank Centre is clearly not as bad as the old Cleveland Stadium was, but there's no question that it's an older building and not really cutting edge.

On the other hand, Moncton's rink, while not as big as Scotiabank Centre (8,500 vs. 11,000), is in the same general size range and clearly has the latest bells and whistles. It's in a much smaller market which will of course limit the number of events it pulls in despite being a top-notch venue. If you put the venues up against each other head to head, Moncton takes it. But it's not really a huge victory (if you want to put it in those terms) considering that Halifax has benefitted from its venue for 40 years and is probably going to start planning for a successor not long after Moncton's venue opens its doors.

[JHikka]

Halifax's temporary popup stadium on Wanderer Grounds was approved 16-0 today by Halifax City Council. CPL team seems imminent for 2018.


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[tomthumb2]

^^ Is it just me or does "pop-up stadium" sound really lame? What are they spending on that thing, ten grand? It's been years and years but I still find myself hoping someone will step up and build a decent stadium so the CFL could finally get to 10 teams, but I doubt it's ever going to happen in my lifetime. Too bad as I think they'd Halifax would be a great CFL city.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

^^ Is it just me or does "pop-up stadium" sound really lame? What are they spending on that thing, ten grand? It's been years and years but I still find myself hoping someone will step up and build a decent stadium so the CFL could finally get to 10 teams, but I doubt it's ever going to happen in my lifetime. Too bad as I think they'd Halifax would be a great CFL city.

Pop up stadium is infinitely better than no stadium, and a pop up stadium in a downtown, urban location is infinitely better than a larger stadium built in the suburbs/city limits.

[tomthumb2]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Pop up stadium is infinitely better than no stadium, and a pop up stadium in a downtown, urban location is infinitely better than a larger stadium built in the suburbs/city limits.

Yeah I suppose its OK for rugby. Wonder if there's ANY chance that it could grow into a real stadium some time in the future?

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

Yeah I suppose its OK for rugby. Wonder if there's ANY chance that it could grow into a real stadium some time in the future?

To be it to 22-25K which the CFL needs, the footprint is a hell of a lot bigger and even if someone else foots the bill, I can see the NIMBYs out in full force and Halifax council not approving it
Sucks, but if it happens, I think it is in the Dartmouth area if it does happen

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

^^ Is it just me or does "pop-up stadium" sound really lame? What are they spending on that thing, ten grand? It's been years and years but I still find myself hoping someone will step up and build a decent stadium so the CFL could finally get to 10 teams, but I doubt it's ever going to happen in my lifetime. Too bad as I think they'd Halifax would be a great CFL city.

Agree it's a little lame. It would be nice if there was a permanent aspect to this pop-up stadium. It reminds me a little of plans and construction of new roadways in Winnipeg with certain intersections with 4-way lights designated as future diamond interchanges when in actuality people know that future will never come.

It's frustrating that a city the size of Halifax has been practically gifted a CFL expansion team for 3+ decades yet the city/province/private sector has been incapable of building anything in that timeframe. Their current stadium is probably comparable to the old Bisons stadium on the university of manitoba grounds.

It seems like there is more vision and a can-do attitude in Moncton - a city less than half the size of Halifax - as illustrated by the poster above who noted all the recent projects completed there in recent years.

[Berklon]

No one is going to gamble on a CFL stadium out east when there's very few people clamouring for a team. I have friends and co-workers in Halifax, St. John's and Moncton and they all say that very few people follow the CFL. They get their football fix with the NFL - more specifically the Patriots.

It's amazing that I remember being in the 8th grade and there was talk of the Atlantic Schooners being the 10th CFL team - there was a logo and everything. I'm going to be 48 soon and it still hasn't happened.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Berklon

No one is going to gamble on a CFL stadium out east when there's very few people clamouring for a team. I have friends and co-workers in Halifax, St. John's and Moncton and they all say that very few people follow the CFL. They get their football fix with the NFL - more specifically the Patriots.

It's amazing that I remember being in the 8th grade and there was talk of the Atlantic Schooners being the 10th CFL team - there was a logo and everything. I'm going to be 48 soon and it still hasn't happened.

Well, I wouldn't say there is no appetite for CFL football in the east. Moncton hosted three decently successful regular season CFL games in the last 7-8 years, averaging about 20,000 spectators per game.

The Patriot's are big - no question, but if there were a Canadian professional team in the region, I think it would be successful. Central NS and southern NB have a football tradition with multiple high school teams, and four AUS teams (MTA, SFX, ACA & SMU).

The problem is the cost of building an appropriate venue and the lack of significant corporate interest. That's a tough nut to crack, and unfortunately I agree that it'll be a long time before we see a CFL team in the region (at least 15-20 years).

[Acajack]

Just because people are fans of the NFL does not prevent them from being or becoming fans of the CFL. Many Canadians have trouble understanding this.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Just because people are fans of the NFL does not prevent them from being or becoming fans of the CFL. Many Canadians have trouble understanding this.

They've had decades to become fans of the CFL, why hasn't it happened yet?

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Just because people are fans of the NFL does not prevent them from being or becoming fans of the CFL. Many Canadians have trouble understanding this.

+1

I might add that it's quite predictable that the NFL marketing machine would easily fill a void created by no CFL. Put a CFL team in there and people will have a reason to watch. A CFL team in Halifax would instantly be the biggest game in town ....by a long shot. The Maritimes is starving for a pro team to get behind. They have NBL but that's nowhere near as high profile as the CFL.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Put a CFL team in there and people will have a reason to watch.

So what reason do they use for watching the NHL and the Jays (and to a lesser extent, the NFL)? Last time I checked, there's no NHL or MLB team out east.

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by esquire

We're getting a bit off track here, but I don't see why federal funding has to be doled out the way you give cookies to children, e.g. everyone gets the same share no matter what. Toronto's needs were different than Winnipeg's. They didn't have that much sports infrastructure for a city of that size, so this was their chance to make up for lost time. Winnipeg already had a pretty good legacy from the 1967 games, so some renovations and improvements were all that was necessary in most cases. However, it's false to say that there were no new facilities built for the 1999 Pan Am Games... I can think of two off the top of my head, perhaps there are others:

http://www.umanitoba.ca/libraries/units/archives/images/ballpark.jpg



Also, the world has changed since 1999, that's why the security budget for the Toronto games was bigger than the Winnipeg games' entire budget. And that's not even getting into the fact that Toronto has more than double the population of Manitoba and Saskatchewan combined, which plays into how much gets spent there.

Toronto with double the population of Manitoba/Sask, you'd think they would have twice the number of stadiums the size of NMS & IGF and twice the arenas like MTS and SaskTel Centre, but it doesn't even come close, even with the $Billions in PanAm expenditure.


..That University of Manitoba Rec Centre doesn't really look like anything so special that it was built specifically for the Winnipeg PanAm games in 1999, most large sized Universities have one..

University of Saskatchewan PAC Centre in Saskatoon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Saskatchewan_Physical_Activity_Complex

Originally posted by MonctonRad
The Moncton arena will have 8500 seats, ScotiaBank Place in Halifax has a little over 10,000 seats. By my calculations, that gives the Moncton events centre about 82% of the capacity of ScotiaBank Place - not much of a difference if you ask me........

It'll be interesting to see what events Moncton's arena gets as compared to ScotiaBank Place, sometimes having a new arena in neighbourhood spurs existing arenas nearby to step up their game.. ie Moose Jaw's new arena added competition to what Regina's arena just half hour down TransCanada highway automatically got.
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Speaking of the Canada Premier Soccer league, It appears they want Saskatchewan included in the league..

..They hope to build an 8,500-seat expandable stadium in either Saskatoon or Regina with play beginning as early as next year..

http://globalnews.ca/news/3446660/lee-genier-soccer-saskatoon-saskatchewan-canadian-premier-league/

[someone123]

There might be some events that only go to one arena or town but as far as the Maritimes go it's probably better for existing larger arenas for there to be more large arenas in other cities. A lot of tours and events bypass the region entirely because there are not enough major venues to justify the travel costs.

A can-do attitude is more like a can-borrow attitude when it comes to public capital spending and sports infrastructure. In any case, there are a bunch of capital projects happening in Halifax as well. Just not a new arena right now, because the city already has one and it was renovated 2 years ago.

As far as NIMBYs go many people said the current pop-up stadium plan in Halifax would be shot down. Yet it was approved unanimously by the city council and is being built.